Liontamer ⚖️ Posted November 12, 2024 Posted November 12, 2024 Artist Name: TheManPF Additional artists: Zach Chapman; Earth Kid; Triple B Music; Sean R. Hanson; Gamer of the Winds Hmmm what can I say about this? I did this originally for Pixel Mixers' Silent Hill album after Hashel invited me, I'm not too familiar with Silent Hill, surprisingly however I did play Silent Hill 4 a while ago, but I never actually finished it so I never got to hear Cradle of Forest as it plays in the credits. The reason this song wormed its way into my ears was thanks to none other than DoD legends Ailsean and Norg, back in 2021 when DoD had done its own vocal month https://dodarchive.dwellingofduels.net/21-07-Vocal/12-Ailsean%2C norg-Silent Hill 4 The Room-Nursery of Thicket-DoD.mp3 This interpretation made me fall in love with this composition, and naturally I dig it way more than the original, I've been singing along to it a lot since I heard it, so when I had the opportunity, it came to mind immediately to do Cradle of Forest. This version I did here is heavily inspired on Ailsean/Norg's version, though obviously, I added a lot of my own flairs to it. I was looking for something somewhat faithful, with a lot of emphasis on the slow hard rock ballady style of the song, while bringing out more colorfulness with some added flutes, organs and acoustic guitars. I also decided that a vocal duet would be way more fun and would make the whole thing feel more varied. I modified the structure of the song a bit to make it feel more like a slow burn and "earn" its length, as much as I love this source I always thought it was a bit long for a standard rock structure, and I wanted to play a bit more with that. I got a bunch of really awesome collaborators, this is one of my biggest collabs to date (tied with Rib Eye Rodeo), I don't usually arrange for big groups, but whenever I do something for Pixel Mixers they always insist, gather as many collabers as you want, so I rolled with it, and ended up with this truly incredibly talented lineup: Zach Chapman - Bass Earth Kid - Vocals Triple B Music - Acoustic Guitar Sean R. Hanson - Keyboards (Organ) Gamer of the Winds - Flute They all brought it, so they all sound great in this. The only one who fell short was me, funnily enough, I did the second set of vocals and all of the electric guitars (and arranging and sequencing and mixing), but I ended up dissatisfied with the mix that ended up on the official album (sorry Hashel ): ), so I went ahead and tweaked a bunch of the mix, redid all guitars, redid all my vocals, redid the drums, barely touched the others' stems really, they were all perfect already, but I needed to be a better glue for all of them. I am very satisfied with this arrangement now. Just like last time, I'm crediting the peeps behind the album this was featured on, Silent Hill: Monochrome Dreams, even if they're not featured on this version, just because they're cool people: Production - Hashel Mastering - Erika Richards Artwork - Leo Val Hope you enjoy (: Lyrics: There deep, deep in the forest night Children dance the waltz They laugh whispering hand in hand Just like children like to do Their eyes, what are they looking for White dress flutters the beat Their song starting to make some sense But only if you're listening Dance, dance like butterflies Shadows appear right before my eyes Sounds echo the absurd Hard to explain something that I heard Again see how the children play Red moon colors the trees Their feet, innocent rustling sounds Playful dream-like fantasy Dance, dance like butterflies Shadows appear right before my eyes Sounds echo the absurd Hard to explain something that I heard Now, hear the forest talking insects and birds Does the scent of soil and beast Bring the life in to the animal you hide It's a great illusion one never knows When you think you're really alone Feel the eyes of someone looking in on you Now, hear the forest talking insects and birds Does the scent of soil and beast Bring the life in to the animal you hide It's a great illusion one never knows When you think you're really alone Feel the eyes of someone looking in on you Hear the forest talking insects and birds Does the scent of soil and beast Bring the life in to the animal you hide It's a great illusion one never knows When you think you're really alone Feel the eyes of someone looking in on you Feel the eyes of someone looking in on you Feel the eyes of someone looking in on... Games & Sources Game: Silent Hill 4: The Room Songs arranged: Cradle of Forest (https://youtu.be/9f4aWcnUXbo) Original composer: Akira Yamaoka System: Good ol PS2 Year: 2004
prophetik music ⚖️ Posted November 13, 2024 Posted November 13, 2024 some interesting sfx to start us off. 0:22 opens with some rolled chords in the acoustic and electric (i really like the tone of the acoustic guitar). EK comes in right away and i have to say i like her tone a lot better than the cokehead in the original. there's a melodyne artifact at 1:08 in EK's voice on that slide. some nice flute after as well, understated but effective. PF's vocals are nice and rich in this range, so that's a nice contrast to EK. drums come in at 2:07 and sound overprocessed to me, the hats sound all highs and no tone, and the snare sounds like it's over-EQed. the vocals that come in at 2:33 also sound way overprocessed, they're super notched and nowhere near as rich as they sounded earlier. formants are too boosted as are the highs. there's a break after this at 2:59 with just the electric and flute, and we're back to EK's vocals (again, this feels so much richer than the tone at 2:33) for a bit before a great solo at 3:37. love what it's saying here. at 4:03 the vocals come back in. the harmonies are way too loud here so it's hard to pick out the voice line that should be the lead voice - turning the harmonies down by a quarter or more is needed there. the second section that is mostly in unison is a bit better mixed but still needs the harmonies turned down. 4:52's backing strings and flute is a nice contrast and fitting for this style. at 5:17 we get the requisite more-technical section from PF =) it doesn't really fit everything else that's happened until this section but it's not a dealbreaker, just a little jarring of a transition. i hear a mistake in the acoustic guitar at the end of the riff at 5:26. there's some dueling solo concepts and then we get the expected instrumental bridge right after, headlined by a singing guitar line that sounds fantastic. there's a slam break and another very quiet section at 6:09 that builds quickly back into the band sound. there's a mic pop at 6:20. the vocals at 6:22 don't quite match up. the song trucks through the chorus one more time, and we move into the outro material. there's some acoustic to play us out and it's done. this is a huge undertaking! i really like the arrangement and the overall picture of the piece. i think the mastering isn't there yet - both in terms of balance for the vocal sections and in terms of the band sound when everything's in. there's some little spots here and there (expected in a work this large!) that have some technical elements that need to be fixed. but man, is this going to be cool when it's there! NO
jnWake ⚖️ Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) A longie! Starts with some neat pads that abruptly cut off around 0:20 for the actual intro. I wonder what's the intent here? I'm not familiar with Silent Hill 4 so maybe it's a reference to the game? Anyway, it's an odd intro but let's move on. Acoustic guitar plays the chord progression from the source's intro, but each chord lasts longer than in the original. I love the acoustic/clean combination and tone, sounds great. At 0:48 we move to the verse with a kinda 1:1 approach, keeping melodies and chords intact. Earth Kid's voice sounds great here (as expected) but the mixing of the vocals is a bit harsh (it becomes more evident later in the track). At 1:13 we return to the source's intro, with the main melody being played on flute. As usual, great playing from GotW. Flute tends to get lost on the mix, maybe it could get a smart EQ boost or simply more volume. 1:41 leads to a new verse with PF's vocals now. Another good performance here! There's also some fun bass noodling by Zach. At 2:09 we move to the source's pre-chorus, played on flute rather than drums. Like I mentioned earlier, flute struggles to cut through the mix and it's more evident here. Drums also make their entrance here. They sound rather squashed and the balance between the kit is odd, with the cymbals being quite loud. Snare manages to cut through the mix but I feel its sound is rather dry. Vocals re-join at 2:33 as a duet, I love how that sounds. Sean's organ also joined the mix alongside the drums with some fun lines, that are sadly hard to hear at times. There's a break around 3:00 with flute and another verse. Next, there's a guitar solo following the pre-chorus motif and then we have another repeat of the vocal duet with extra harmonies. At 4:27 we finally get the actual chorus from the source! Very close to the source here. There's one vocal track at 4:49 (singing quite high) that feels off to me. We then move to a repeat of the source's intro, with instrumentation more akin to the original's. 5:16 features a break, echoing the one from the source, but much more creative and interesting IMO (love the acoustic guitar noodling). At 5:42 we have the string "solo" from the source, first on strings and then on guitar. 6:05 introduces a piano break (first piano part in the song?) and soon the vocal duet joins singing the chorus as we move to a proper full chorus. Track begins to close at 7:12 with a string melody over the verse chord progression and then it closes with a final acoustic guitar section. Quite a lengthy track! Arrangement's very cool. Although chords, melodies and genre don't really change much, you completely restructured the track and made it your own. While the original starts right away with drums and a rock mood, your take starts more calm and slowly builds up to the rock mood. There's no question about source usage, it's present in basically the entire track. On production I have many comments, since this is a pretty lengthy track. I made many of them on the above paragraph so I won't repeat them all here, but I'll list my main nitpicks. First one is the vocals, it's not a dealbreaker but the mixing is rather harsh, cutting off some high frequencies wouldn't be a bad idea. Second, the drums are too squashed and unbalanced. Finally, there's some minor balancing issues like the flute and organ not cutting through the mix that well. Overall though, I think this is fantastic. Performances are all awesome, with the vocal duet being a really cool standout, and although the production isn't perfect it's more than good enough IMO. YES Edited March 20 by jnWake
pixelseph ⚖️ Posted March 24 Posted March 24 This source is like Bowie meets Silverchair and I'm here for it. I'd just like to say at the front: the performances from all involved are phenomenal! I would much rather listen to y'all sing this one compared to the original. :) This track hews very conservatively to the track, though the embellishments added to enhance the dramatic curve (softening post-chorus @ 2:58, moving to the solo section @ 3:40, breakdown (with acoustic guitar and organ leads!!) @ 5:17, build up @ 6:09) keep it feeling fresh. It helps that the style veers toward a more modern alternative rock palette compared to the original's post-grunge. The vocal mix is overall good, though there are some issues worth addressing for future mixes. Proph mentioned the choruses having too much formant boosting (2khz - 3khz) and boosted highs (~7khz) on the vocal, which I agree with; dipping 1 or 2 dB ~7khz helps tame the harshness. The opening phrase (dance, dance like butterflies) is the clearest example for addressing this one. There's less fundamental in the voices during the choruses as well (likely to make room for the rhythm section), which can be brought back with some dynamic EQ. Push the other instruments down with the dynamic EQ around the vocal's fundamental frequencies while they're singing with a quick release. It'll bring that richness back without sacrificing the lovely backing track! How does Liontamer put it? Oh yeah - Get it outta here! YES
Chimpazilla ⚖️ Posted March 26 Posted March 26 I love the weird intro! Very cool way to set up the mood of the track. The intro swell is very different from the simple guitar bit that follows, but it works. There has been a lot said above already, so I am going to sort of summarize my thoughts. I agree the arrangement is quite conservative, but the source has been very nicely re-interpreted here. This arrangement is rock-opera epic and I love it. The vocals are performed well and on pitch most of the time, despite a couple of pitch-correction artifacts as proph mentioned. The vocal processing overall is on the weak side, they sound more thin and dry than they should, and entirely centered. I think some effected side vocals would have been a nice addition. Sometimes EK's vocal becomes shrill, due to processing and not her actual tone. It cuts through, but at a bit of a cost. The production overall is good, everything is audible, nothing competing despite this being a very full soundscape. Mastering is on the loud side but not overcompressed. Overall this is really well done, nothing holding it back for me, and people will really enjoy hearing this! YES
XPRTNovice ⚖️ Posted March 27 Posted March 27 Man, wild opening. I liked it. Overall a great piece, but vocals production makes this a no for me. Female vocal lead is missing some serious frequency range. It needs to be RE-EQed and fit better into the mix in the beginning here. It might be a mic quality issue, acutally, where it'll be difficult to get that data in there; it's hard for me to hear. But it's coming in very dry, with a lot of data in the high mids (1k hz) and not much else. A good performance, but it can use some treatment in production. Male vocals at 1:45 also need to be re-mixed. This sounds like it was sung into a SM7B with a podcast preset turned on. Overcompressed with too much in the midrange, creating that podcaster sound. More high end, less mids. Get this to sit better on top of the mix. This compounds when the vocals come together at 2:35. The EQ/mix of the two vocals together sounds very harsh, which masks your otherwise very good performance. 2nd entrance of female only at 3:15 sounds better than the beginning, but it might be because it's not as isolated and we have some verb/delay to fatten it up. I focused a lot on the vocal here because the rest of it really sounds nice to me. The bass could have a scoop at 400hz. The kick drum could be a little less compressed/better hits. But mostly the band is well done. 4:06 double vocal also harsh/not passable for me. Now it sounds like we have a 3 part harmony (or maybe an instrument is doubling it there?) But again, the eq/mixing of the two is so off that it's hard to get past it. I want to emphasize again that the PERFORMANCES ARE GREAT, which is not always the case in remixes. Really enjoy the breakdown at 5:20. I was a little confused here trying to figure out whether the organ or the acoustic doodling was the main part here, and I think you should pan them to different sides (not hardpanned, but give them room). This helps them seem like they're talking to each other instead of fighting with each other. This is too good of a piece for me to let the vocal mixing go. It needs some really focused attention on the vocals to make sure they sit in the right place with the right freqs. Since we have a lot going on here, automation may help you; there's a chance you may have to change the EQs depending on what else is going on here. NO (please resubmit)
Emunator ⚖️ Posted April 2 Posted April 2 Add this to the list of source material that I only know because of Dwelling of Duels, though my familiarity with it dates back all the way to 2006's Silent Hill month when ansgaros covered the same song. Let's see what you can do with it! Starts with some excellent mood-setting ambiance, I can tell we're going to be in this for the long haul. Wow, this arrangement goes places. I was attempting to play-by-play this at first but I got so caught up in the journey that I had to just let it play out. Seph called out Bowie as a strong parallel, and I agree with that completely, but I'll also throw out Opeth as another reference - this feels like it lives in the same stylistic realm as their more prog-oriented songs like Burden. I can't stress enough how much I loved this arrangement, I think it's one of your best. Joe brought up some really well-informed critiques about the vocal mixing, and I agree at every step. However, if I was looking at this in a bubble, I don't think the vocal harshness is enough to make me say "if the artist was unable to make any fixes, this should not be posted on the site." There's an abundance of things you get right here, and the vocals are audible and clear, and there's much more to the arrangement than just that element. I would LOVE to hear some of Joe's critiques implemented, but I'd be hard pressed to make a case that it should be held back in its current form, either. YES (but maybe we can get some tweaks to the vocal mix if it's not too much trouble? no worries if not)
paradiddlesjosh ⚖️ Posted April 3 Posted April 3 Howdy, PF! As other Js have noted, no arrangement issues here. While the structure's somewhat conservative, the added falling action segments (2:59-3:10, 6:05-6:33), the breakdown (5:15-5:41), and the re-arrangement of some of the choruses on the back half of the track are more than interpretive enough. Stellar performances all around. I love the contrasting acoustic and clean electric guitar arpeggios in the intro and verses. GotW's flute line at 1:13-1:40 is a great melodic palette cleanser between EK's and PF's verses, ditto Sean's organ at 5:27-5:53 and how it dovetails in the lead electric guitar at 5:54 -- would have loved to hear more of the flute at 4:53-5:16, as it blends into the string line, but this is a nitpick. Like XPRTnovice, I'm not sure whether to pay attention to the organ or the acoustic guitar once the organ enters the breakdown (5:27-5:41), so panning these two against each other for some separation can help -- once again, another nitpick. Zack's bass is a little mids-heavy, but his part serves the track super well and his tone's solid. The programmed drums are solid except for the breakdown; the part isn't impossible to play, but it doesn't sound to me like there's a good reason for the hi-hats to be intermittent (snare flams on the backbeat, linear patterning, etc). Not a dealbreaker, just a nitpick from a drummer. I agree with proph and XPRTnovice on the mix critiques regarding the vocals and drums. You and EK delivered stellar performances, hampered by too much formant and high-frequency content. This isn't as apparent in the verses, but sticks out where your vocals combine in the "Dance like Butterflies" segments (2:33-2:58, 4:03-4:26) and the "...Forests talking insects and birds" passages (4:27-4:52, 6:30-7:12). Similarly, the kick and snare are overcompressed and the hi-hats are too loud. And as proph noted, there's an audible mic pop at 6:20. This is a really close one for me, and unfortunately, I think another mixing pass is necessary before this one's ready for the front page. It's suuuuuper close, PF, and I know you can do it! NO (borderline, resubmit!)
Liontamer ⚖️ Posted April 3 Author Posted April 3 What a weird source. Vocal mixing didn't seem quite right at 2:33-2:58; it felt like the highs of the track were cut and TheManPF's voice cut through too much relative to EK's, BUT they do combine well (maybe just "Dance" by PF needs to be softened?); that said, no big deal in the big picture. I just don't hear any major issues, and the arrangement's on point. Some sort of pop around 4:04 that I wish wasn't there, but it's just a minor speedbump. Even the sequenced strings are mixed relatively well and occupy a solid space in the texture. Great job by TheManPF involving Earth Kid with the vocals to provide a new dimension to the presentation of the lyrics. The instrumentation overall was awesome as well, with the only thing giving me any sort of pause was the lack of sharpness to the track, but again, nothing at all even threatening a NO. I've been on the opposite side of hundreds of approvals, so I'm used to being the bad guy; that said, I'm genuinely shocked at this split. Turning this down would be making the perfect the enemy of the good in a major way. My bar always involves asking the question "If the source files were gone and this couldn't be revised, would I take this?" On the seesaw of what's right vs. what's wrong, it's hugely tilted to this being oh so right. Awesome source choices, strong performances, solid instrumentation choices, this is cool as hell. YES
Rexy ⚖️ Posted April 3 Posted April 3 I have been hanging around with paradiddlesjosh in a voice chat while assessing this, and the buzzwords that came to mind when hearing the original was "dollar store Stone Temple Pilots" - so I'm glad to hear that a more organic pop-ballad-like route taken here. The over-arching chord structure from the original is still present, with longer instrumental breaks to allow the strings and winds to carry the guitar riff from the source. And then, of course, we've got the two vocalists carrying the whole arrangement package together, with not much done to alter notation-wise from the original - but the rock-opera-like stylization complemented all this, so I respect the ambition. Production-wise, I can give strong credit to the performances and drum programming for sure. Everything has a role to play, and under the right circumstances would stick together like glue. As of right now, though, the mixing still has some flaws. Joe's excellent breakdown on the vocal mixing is something that I agree with. There's so much focus on high-end presence for EK's vocals to the point of hearing effect artifacts when I'm not supposed to. And then, your vocal isn't as rough in comparison, but it does lose clarity when both vocal lines appear together. With its rock-opera-like approach, the backing instruments have so much going on that it's hard to separate your string section, the organ, and, on some occasions, Greg's flute. Josh's suggestion of panning that touch wider is a great idea, but don't be afraid to experiment with potential other EQ cuts as well, especially since the strings and organ cover that same frequency space here. Honestly, I love your work. However, it isn't quite ready for OCR yet—for me, it needs another mixdown pass to make it happen. I know you can do it. NO (resubmit)
Hemophiliac ⚖️ Posted April 4 Posted April 4 I'm going to keep this short to keep this moving. The whole arrangement is good, and the performances are solid. I'd like to hear more singing from you actually, you have a great tone. EK sounds great as always. With that said, I would be able to enjoy this and loop it ad infinitum if the mixing flaws were corrected. Once the full sound comes in the vocals and drums sound over-compressed, it's like either the threshold is set for it to be triggering too much or the ratio is too high. It's strange because when there's less going on the parts sound just fine to me, such as the nice break section with just EK (3:11-3:35). The top presence range around 4kHz for the vocals feels boosted heavily. Combined with the cymbals ringing out; that top frequency range is giving a lot of top end brightness that gets fatiguing after long sections of the track where the drums are going constantly. Two pops managed to sneak their way in at 6:19 and 6:20. I really love to hear this repaired because the arrangement is great and the performances are good, but the mixing and/or mastering needs another go for clean-up. NO (resubmit)
DarkeSword 🎮 Posted April 4 Posted April 4 Rare to hear a remix that's so elevated above the original. Reframing this as a duet is inspired. Vocal performances are gold. I'm with Larry, I think this is a case of us perhaps chasing perfection when what's in front of us is very comfortably above our bar. Love this. Thank you for sending it to us. It's a YES from me.
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