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Liontamer

OCR01704 - *YES* Final Fantasy 7 & Super Metroid 'Harmony of Destruction' *RESUB*

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Original Decision: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4606

Track Name: Harmony of Destruction.

Your ReMixer name: Ellywu2

Your real name: Chris Elliott

Your email address: ellywu2@hotmail.com

Name of game(s) ReMixed: Final Fantasy 7, Super Metroid

Name of individual song(s) ReMixed: Those chosen by the planet, Lower Norfair.

Well, i've taken it away and added more stuff, cut down the length, beefed up the brass etc. Hope you like the revised version. Still going for the media ventures sound of course :) Pretty much any original bit in the piece is underlined by something from one of the two source tunes now.

-Chris

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http://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/packs2/FF7_psf.rar - 305 "Those Chosen by the Planet"

http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=sm - "Norfair Ancient Ruins Area" (sm-26.spc)

Well, I YES'd the first one, so let's see what's been done here.

Obvious reference to lower norfair from :10 - :32

I could be mistaken, but I believe the strings that fade in after :32 are a loose reference to the underlying string riff in "Those Chosen..." and source from :38 - :50 (pads) seems to have a loosely interpreted connection to :43 - 1:04 in remix.

1:05 - 1:25 expands on the overall theme with some original melodic content, as far as I can tell with a beautiful very Gladiatorly chord progression.

1:26 - 1:45 begins reference to the main norfair melody, which kicks in fully from 1:49 - 2:32

2:32 - 2:45 adds some good dynamic variety to break up the potential overuse of the "Zimmer drums" and the bells add some good timbral diversity as well.

2:45 - 3:17 seemed to be mostly original stuff.

The traditional "Zimmer build" at 3:18 introduces the melody of "Those Chosen" in the form of the strings which start their crecendo at 3:30 and bust wide open and obvious at 3:49 and then the song halts at 4:11.

Now for the "lightning round"

-Samples are great and used well

-Good dynamic diversity

-Only production gripe was the master volume - needs to be louder

-Obvious integration and decent interpretation of sources

-Good original additions and expansions within mix

-I thought the ending could have been a little less abrupt

-Repetition was not as much an issue in this version, due to the cut length.

YES

could we see about getting a re-render that's a couple decibels louder?

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Well... I passed it before, and since this is already an improvement from the original submission, I'll pass it again. The master volume is a little quiet this time around, as BGC pointed out, and I also miss the little woodwind duet at the end! But hey, guess that's the price we have to pay for less repetition. Solid work. Perhaps you wouldn't mind fixing the volume thing before this gets posted, if it passes?

YES

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First off, definitely normalize and then compress this. Zimmer's music is LOUD. No question that this is too quiet and loses energy as a result. Some of the parts are nearly inaudible, even in headphones.

Comparing this with the original sub, I really didn't hear significant changes to the arrangement OR the sparse instrumentation in the first half. Production also seems to be unchanged, more or less, which isn't a huge deal but it's a slightly weak area. I am baffled as to why more strings and winds aren't being used more here. Why not use all the tools at your disposal? I also still strongly recommend synths if you are going after the Media Ventures (now called Remote Control Productions) sound.

To me there is still a little too much original material. You're playing a lot with the chords of the sources but to me the melodies are simply not prominent enough and your own original stuff is taking up most of the space. While it's less repetitive overall, this doesn't address my main issues. The ending more or less just peters out and the structure feels somewhat disjointed, with some builds and climaxes but a lack of a consistent flow.

Yes, this would work as a film score. But we are not looking for film scores here, an OCReMix should stand on its own as an engaging and interesting musical composition. That is part of what we're trying to do - it's not just background music, after all. Improved, but go for a resub.

NO

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http://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/packs2/FF7_psf.rar - 305 "Those Chosen by the Planet"

http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=sm - "Norfair Ancient Ruins Area" (sm-26.spc)

For the record, I agreed with most of BGC's source breakdown. Hate to do this, but I agreed with zircon most of the way. Arrangement-wise, I'm not having major issues. I think it works well enough as a standalone piece of music despite the film score style.

The overall realism is aight, even though the strings and brass feel thin and bland. For example, the last section at 3:49, the strings feel like they have 0 depth to them.

Focus more on the FF7 & Super Metroid material. I see how you're trying to use those sources throughout most of the mix, but IMO the references are too hidden in the back. I'm not inferring/implying your creative process, but IMO the source references being tucked so far in the back and paleing drastically with your original writing that's up front feels like you're only paying lip service to the source tunes in those sections. It literally may be only volume and/or balance issues, but those uses of the source need to stand out more strongly in that first half. Not the dealbreaker here, but pushing it.

C'mon man, get that volume up, give this track the power the writing implies. Even in Winamp, I was able to bump the track up 7db with things still sounding ok (but fuller) for the most part. Just revisit the volume and sound balance, and (on the more minor side) try to up the realism of the brass and strings and this would be a safe pass for me. It's good work so far, bro. Don't drop this if this isn't the version that gets you passed.

NO (resubmit)

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Having a look at the mp3 in cool edit, the majority of the mix is sitting around roughly -11dB, with only the major percussion hits peaking at 0dB. I'd recommend perhaps compressing, or at least limiting your percussion and then boosting the master channel as close to 0db as you can. Right now the mix is great, but it's very quiet in the context of other sounds and music.

My vote stands from the original decision, on the proviso that the volume is fixed. The arrangement is fine and so is the rest of the production.

YES (Proviso)

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I like the changes that have been made to this a lot. A very strong piece (once you turn the volume up), and although the links to the sources aren't as prominent as they could be, they are there - even though I do see the points that the other judges make. I do feel that this is somewhat more engaging than the last version, which was my main issue last time. However, this does need some compression, this could easily be at least 6db louder without losing any audible dynamic range.

YES (On the condition that this be made louder)

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First of all, I'm rather upset that in my absence, the term "Lightning Round" has expanded beyond larry to enter the panel vernacular.

that said, trimming the track down was a good idea, however from the very beginning all the way through, I'm rather unimpressed by the partwriting. There are tons of duplicated lines, or "parallel octaves" as they say. That in and of itself doesn't say much, but what it means is that the parts are boring and lack interesting harmony.

I'd still say the track lacks direction. it now just ends more suddenly. I think it needs greater dynamic range, and more interesting harmony.

NO

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I agreement with the sentiment that this sounds like background music a.k.a. this suffers from melodyitis.

the melodies just aren't prominent, and with the exception of some brief segments there's nothing for my ear to hold onto, except the feeling that there should be dialogue superimposed over the music.

i feel bad passing a NO vote down, because i can tell a lot of effort has gone into this. i just need to hear some melodies out of this arrangement before i'm willing to pass it.

this is close, don't give up.

NO, RESUBMIT

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ugh, why do you have to do this to me.

i passed this the first time cuz it was fantastic. this is even more Gladiator now. i dig. i have to disagree with the comments about film scores not passing our bar because of their background musical nature and their lack of distinct melody. i believe that we are not here to judge the purpose of music but rather its quality. a "song" doesn't hold any more of an intrinsic musical value than film score.

that said, there are points of this that are too soft for the music itself and at times, i am lost in it but i think that can be explained by the fact that, as judges, we are listening to the piece in a different light than a non-judging listener would. in other words, we are paying more attention to the piece than we would had we listened to it casually. if i listen to this again tommorow as i'm doing something else, i won't think twice about its lack of anything. the volume issue, however, ought to be noted: this is not written to be soft; rather it is written to be aggressive and as such should have appropriate volume.

really, really dig it still. funny thing: while we're all mentioning how much it is reminiscent of zimmer's work, nobody brought up that this is basically Orc Music from World of Warcraft. hahaha. i can totally picture myself running through ogrimaar right now. with an axe

i am in a tough position as the tie breaker because while this is still a definite yes in my book, i do want to hear it louder. so.

RESUBMIT LOUDER BY THE TIME IT GETS POSTED

YES(LOUDER.)

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<djpretzel> what's the status on a louder version?

<Larry> I mailed Chris yesterday

<Larry> haven't heard back, but gave him the whole vote, relayed the issues on volume, told him (provided you also went YES) that if he wanted to just work on volume that was fine

<Larry> but that it was also a potential opportunity to work on other issues if he wanted to

<djpretzel> conditional yes w/volume fixed

<djpretzel> also believe whatever encoder he's using has issues

<djpretzel> 128... yeah

<djpretzel> we could use 160

<djpretzel> and LAME preferably

<djpretzel> essentially, if he sent any of us the raw WAV of the evaluated sub, we could fix it

<Larry> he could probably fix it; it's just that he hosts on Soundclick, so they automatically force it down to 128kbps; they may reencode the files

<Larry> I'll just let him know to use a better hosting source or attach

That's the word from up yonder by the Pretzel man. Props to Chris to running the gauntlet and finally making it past those evil bastards!

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I suppose I should chime in on the revised copy? I've got NOTHING ELSE TO JUDGE, SO WHY NOT?

Anyway, it's a solid piece of work and the production is cleaned up nicely. How 'bout dem trombones, eh? EH?

YES

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