Pokémon Diamond/Pearl *FRIEND CODES IN CLANOCR THREAD*

[The Damned]

I think that the game itself (for the most part) s fine. It's just the writing that needs a big push in another direction.

It's the same simple plot each time: you're some local kid that has lived in the smae little town for all these years, and it's only today (when you start the game) that you finally try to step out into that grass by the town entrance.

And then, some professor gives you a pokemon. OK, I get that we need a way to choose our starter, that's fine. But at least shake this up a little.

Then it's off to run a few errands an- damn! A vaguely and slightly evil group of pokemon trainers/poachers/thieves/fanboys appears!Who will step up and save the world from them? Only a ten year old kid with a level 10 starter, that's who! The bad guys are never really bad. They might do some minor damage to a building, or maybe block off a road for a few hours. Oh noes! How terrible!

And your character is so flat. Most RPGs have some basic background to them. No, not this series. There's a pro to having a silent protaginist, but only when it's not supposed to be you. Link from Zelda? That works. He's an established character. Even if you've never played a Zelda game before, you know going in that this guy is somebody.

Pokemon? you get a generic boy or girl.

Speaking of, it's the 21st century. I think it's well within our means to have customizable characters at this point. Hats, coats, pants, skin tone... throw in a half dozen body types and we're good.

The long, drawn out point to this whole thing is that Gamefreak can make some decent games. They just either don't want to change anything, or they're incapable of doing so. They need some new guys in there to at least give the plot some tweaking.

I know, I know... tl;dr.

[Brushfire]

Maybe they are afraid of change.

Maybe they are sticking with what works.

Maybe they are just doing it to piss off The Damned.

The world may never know....

[Gafgarion]

I think that the game itself (for the most part) s fine. It's just the writing that needs a big push in another direction.

It's the same simple plot each time: you're some local kid that has lived in the smae little town for all these years, and it's only today (when you start the game) that you finally try to step out into that grass by the town entrance.

And then, some professor gives you a pokemon. OK, I get that we need a way to choose our starter, that's fine. But at least shake this up a little.

Then it's off to run a few errands an- damn! A vaguely and slightly evil group of pokemon trainers/poachers/thieves/fanboys appears!Who will step up and save the world from them? Only a ten year old kid with a level 10 starter, that's who! The bad guys are never really bad. They might do some minor damage to a building, or maybe block off a road for a few hours. Oh noes! How terrible!

And your character is so flat. Most RPGs have some basic background to them. No, not this series. There's a pro to having a silent protaginist, but only when it's not supposed to be you. Link from Zelda? That works. He's an established character. Even if you've never played a Zelda game before, you know going in that this guy is somebody.

Pokemon? you get a generic boy or girl.

Speaking of, it's the 21st century. I think it's well within our means to have customizable characters at this point. Hats, coats, pants, skin tone... throw in a half dozen body types and we're good.

The long, drawn out point to this whole thing is that Gamefreak can make some decent games. They just either don't want to change anything, or they're incapable of doing so. They need some new guys in there to at least give the plot some tweaking.

I know, I know... tl;dr.

You forgot something... Being able to have more than 1 save file on a game.

[The Damned]

No, I can understand why they only have one save file per game. Aside from the ridiculous amount of data that a save game makes up (even with technical increases in hardware; there's a list somewhere I found that goes over the whole range of things that a game has to save. Items, pokemon and their stats, order in boxes and your roster, placement on the map, executed variables to date... a save game is actually quite large), it's also a matter of the game being for one person.

It's meant to be played and used by one person for a long time. I had my original Red game for over three years, and it's still intact on my cartridge. I had my Silver game from launch date to the day that Ruby and Sapphire came out (too bad the GSC games had that damn battery failure... I lost my old team, including my legit Mew!), and I still have my Sapphire cartridge intact.

No, one save per cart makes sense. Besides, can you imagine having three save games that you could copy and save at any time? That Mew or Celebi you have is now worthless, because every single person could just trade from one save file, and then copy it over and over as much as they want. And don't mention trading glitches, those are glitches, not intended game mechanics.

Then there's the logistics of multiple saves and trading. It would just fall apart on a conceptual level.

No, one save per game is what a game like this need. Each player has their own cartridge, and that one cartridge is supposed to be unique to that player.

[Strati]

Diamond and Pearl had a much darker storyline than any of the other games, and that's why it's my favorite of any of the Pokémon games.

[Admiral_C]

Like I was saying before... they haven't changed the game because they don't need to.

It will probably take a sharp decline in sales to push them do something. Shame to put it like that, but then again, the game is still fine as it is... Adding something like character customization would be cool, but its just fluff. Adding a complex and deep story would be nice, but I don't think its necessary to the game itself, I play to train my team and battle other ppl. A 1-player story is more of a side-quest IMO.

[Linkjing Donuts]

I think that the game itself (for the most part) s fine. It's just the writing that needs a big push in another direction.

It's the same simple plot each time: you're some local kid that has lived in the smae little town for all these years, and it's only today (when you start the game) that you finally try to step out into that grass by the town entrance.

And then, some professor gives you a pokemon. OK, I get that we need a way to choose our starter, that's fine. But at least shake this up a little.

Then it's off to run a few errands an- damn! A vaguely and slightly evil group of pokemon trainers/poachers/thieves/fanboys appears!Who will step up and save the world from them? Only a ten year old kid with a level 10 starter, that's who! The bad guys are never really bad. They might do some minor damage to a building, or maybe block off a road for a few hours. Oh noes! How terrible!

And your character is so flat. Most RPGs have some basic background to them. No, not this series. There's a pro to having a silent protaginist, but only when it's not supposed to be you. Link from Zelda? That works. He's an established character. Even if you've never played a Zelda game before, you know going in that this guy is somebody.

Pokemon? you get a generic boy or girl.

Speaking of, it's the 21st century. I think it's well within our means to have customizable characters at this point. Hats, coats, pants, skin tone... throw in a half dozen body types and we're good.

The long, drawn out point to this whole thing is that Gamefreak can make some decent games. They just either don't want to change anything, or they're incapable of doing so. They need some new guys in there to at least give the plot some tweaking.

I know, I know... tl;dr.

remember: the games were supposed to run along with the anime. diamond pearl were the first pokemon games to come out before the anime, so i assume game freak wanted you to learn the characters backgrounds from the show. same goes for yellow, which was based on the japtoon itself.

as for the other games, i'm thinking they wanted you to focus on the game elements themselves and leave the backgrounds to the anime

[cobaltstarfire]

remember: the games were supposed to run along with the anime. diamond pearl were the first pokemon games to come out before the anime

Uh...maybe I'm horribly wrong with my memory, but I'm pretty sure the games came before the Anime...at least in Japan. That's why Ash/Gary are said to be based off of Red/Blue not the other way around?

Edit: Upon further poking around the Red/Green version came out before the anime by about 2 years. With blue coming out later as a bit of an upgrade. Yellow is based on the Anime.

[Aninymouse]

remember: the games were supposed to run along with the anime. diamond pearl were the first pokemon games to come out before the anime, so i assume game freak wanted you to learn the characters backgrounds from the show. same goes for yellow, which was based on the japtoon itself.

Nerd rage.

[The Damned]

God damn it, Linkjing Donuts... OK, now you are the new Gafgarion. Gafgarion, you're taking over Linkjing Donuts's old spot. Congrats.

There. I hope you're all happy.

[Aninymouse]

I think that the game itself (for the most part) s fine. It's just the writing that needs a big push in another direction.

It's the same simple plot each time: you're some local kid that has lived in the smae little town for all these years, and it's only today (when you start the game) that you finally try to step out into that grass by the town entrance.

And then, some professor gives you a pokemon. OK, I get that we need a way to choose our starter, that's fine. But at least shake this up a little.

Then it's off to run a few errands an- damn! A vaguely and slightly evil group of pokemon trainers/poachers/thieves/fanboys appears!Who will step up and save the world from them? Only a ten year old kid with a level 10 starter, that's who! The bad guys are never really bad. They might do some minor damage to a building, or maybe block off a road for a few hours. Oh noes! How terrible!

And your character is so flat. Most RPGs have some basic background to them. No, not this series. There's a pro to having a silent protaginist, but only when it's not supposed to be you. Link from Zelda? That works. He's an established character. Even if you've never played a Zelda game before, you know going in that this guy is somebody.

Pokemon? you get a generic boy or girl.

Speaking of, it's the 21st century. I think it's well within our means to have customizable characters at this point. Hats, coats, pants, skin tone... throw in a half dozen body types and we're good.

The long, drawn out point to this whole thing is that Gamefreak can make some decent games. They just either don't want to change anything, or they're incapable of doing so. They need some new guys in there to at least give the plot some tweaking.

I know, I know... tl;dr.

I agree with the Damned, though; the main storyline and the almost nonexistent character development in these games really makes replays boring. Once you go through the main story once, you're good, and you just keep raising Pokemon ad infinitum. BUT, what would you rather have: a more standard, story-driven Pokemon JRPG or a community-driven Pokemon MMORPG?

I'm kinda torn. With Colosseum, we got a more story-driven game that put serious limits to what Pokemon were available and other all-important series staple elements. It was kind of interesting in that the Pokemon available to you seemed more... essential -- like pieces to a puzzle. In other words, you only had so many that could put things to sleep, so many that had water-type attacks, etc. The extreme limitation felt stupid at times when all your guys were so horribly weak, but it was... different.

However, if you take the "classic quintessential Pokemon dream game," the MMO, there's far more to consider. It's now become a project that is far more than a reskinned, rebalanced handheld title.

...

Something I always kind of wished they'd do was to present "Pokemon Training" more as a sport rather than a way of life. In the anime, there are plenty of people who raise and live with Pokemon who don't even battle. And it makes sense to me, since they're wild animals with various levels of tameness, that those deemed "trainers" who pit their Pokemon against other's in tests of skill and strength should INDEED be trained and taught how to compete without mortally endangering anyone.

With the recent turn to high fiction that the new legendaries have taken to (rulers of time & space? god of creation? whatever happened to genetic clones & birds that altered the weather?), I'm kind of worried about how things are going to go from here. I mean, with guys like Dialga, Arseus and Giratina roaming around, you essentially have to backtrack and move away from "Pokegods" since, well, how do you improve on a god? They're the top of the food chain, so to speak. Mewtwo was never an omniscient god-Pokemon, he was just a pissed-off clone who was tired of being trifled with. His power level might have been over 9000, but that doesn't mean he could reach through a rift in space and throw his opponent into another dimension...

I had a lot of fun with D/P, but I didn't play it for nearly as long as I played the other generations. After I won one of those local Gamestop tournaments last year, I've only briefly picked it back up from time to time. D/P is more refined than its predecessors, but the complexity also jumped up quite a bit as well. Every Pokemon generation always goes the same for me... once you figure out who're the top Pokemon in the metagame, you begin to forget about the rest from the bottom up. Things get stale. Part of that is because you're still just selecting animation from a menu after all these years, but a big part is still that you see so much of the same time after time after time.

I think... it come down to the huge range of power and usefulness that the Pokemon find themselves in.

Like I was saying before... they haven't changed the game because they don't need to.

It will probably take a sharp decline in sales to push them do something. Shame to put it like that, but then again, the game is still fine as it is... Adding something like character customization would be cool, but its just fluff. Adding a complex and deep story would be nice, but I don't think its necessary to the game itself, I play to train my team and battle other ppl. A 1-player story is more of a side-quest IMO.

I think what I'd like more than "fluff and side-quests" is an in-game motivator to actually win and get better. Of course that's the POINT of Pokemon, but I'm talking about... well, let me put it to you this way: in most RPGs, you get to a certain point, the story ends, and at that point what does it matter how strong you are or what skills you developed? All you can do is mess around. There are no more serious challenges.

In Pokemon, the "serious challenges" are simply the battles themselves. There's no deeper meaning, no rewards, no character development... just battle. Don't get me wrong, the battles themselves are exciting, but once your Pokemon get to, say, Lv100, all the sudden there isn't even a "get stronger" aspect. Assuming you're satisfied with a Pokemon's invisible stat values, that's all you can do with the guy. After that, it's just about strategy and combos and minimizing luck, etc. ...

I almost wish Pokemon was a more action-oriented game.

TL;DR lol, good luck

[Strati]

With the recent turn to high fiction that the new legendaries have taken to (rulers of time & space? god of creation? whatever happened to genetic clones & birds that altered the weather?), I'm kind of worried about how things are going to go from here. I mean, with guys like Dialga, Arseus and Giratina roaming around, you essentially have to backtrack and move away from "Pokegods" since, well, how do you improve on a god? They're the top of the food chain, so to speak. Mewtwo was never an omniscient god-Pokemon, he was just a pissed-off clone who was tired of being trifled with. His power level might have been over 9000, but that doesn't mean he could reach through a rift in space and throw his opponent into another dimension...

Excellently put. I liked DP for the story because I really do see it as much deeper than previous gens. I mean, RBY you thwarted the cloning, yeah, that's kind of cool, but DP, it was like, okay, this guy kidnaps these Pokémon, tortures them into giving him what he wants, the means to summon a Pokémon of time and space so he can erase this existence and create his own universal utopia. I mean, that's pretty solid story there, there's basically an ultimate ambition to stop the guy. But where are you going to go from THERE, storywise?

[Arek the Absolute]

The DP story seemed...optional. The fact that you didn't have to complete it until you wanted the last badge really made it feel more like a sidestory that was a hassle rather than the main deal.

[Admiral_C]

But where are you going to go from THERE, storywise?

The legendaries get pissed and re-write history... naturally...

[cobaltstarfire]

The legendaries get pissed and re-write history... naturally...

A lot of the legendaries seem to fall into the "more animal than not" category of pokemon, I kind of wonder if they have the cognitive ability to get pissed and do that in the first place. (I too am also really curious where the games will go next, past games have felt pretty open ended, but DP feels a lot like the "last" game to me).

The DP pokemon story does seem to be the most fleshed out compared to the other games, that said it's a pretty common story of "I want to erase existence and recreate it to be a perfect vision of what I believe to be utopia" Not that I mind or anything though...

[Admiral_C]

Well, some pokemon have been shown to be quite intelligent. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch... especially since they are "legendaries". Or being animals, they could get into a fight and accidentally do it (>.>)

Heh, that's why I don't care for DP's legendaries too much. They are exiting the realm of animal, and moving more into the supernatural being category... I dislike that concept for pokemon...

[Strati]

...that said it's a pretty common story of "I want to erase existence and recreate it to be a perfect vision of what I believe to be utopia"...

Is it? I've never heard that story take before.

Heh, that's why I don't care for DP's legendaries too much. They are exiting the realm of animal, and moving more into the supernatural being category... I dislike that concept for pokemon...

Because Ghosts aren't supernatural, right?

[The Damned]

So, all the Ghost types... you don't like them?

Or ones based on mythology, like Golduck (the kappa), or Arcanine (Shinese dragon-dog thingy you see at temples), or Ninetails (do I have to explain this one?), or Ho-oh and Moltres (phoenix)? Or Charizard (dragon)? What about Gyarados (Chinese dragon)?

Just pointing some things out.

EDIT: Damn it, Mewtation... I just had to correct my spelling before posting, didn't I?

[cobaltstarfire]

Well, some pokemon have been shown to be quite intelligent.

See I didn't say all pokemon, I said some of the legendaries, and a few of the not so legendaries. Some pokemon are less tame than others, and act more on their instincts rather than thinking something through.

Most legendaries run along the line of "You pissed me off so now I'm going to rampage and indiscriminately destroy everything in my path."

[Admiral_C]

Because Ghosts aren't supernatural, right?

Gastlys are essentially sentient balls of well... Gas. And actually... the more I think about it, Gastly is the only species of the Ghost type that I prefer to use.

I've no problem with them being based off of mythical creatures at all either, but when they are portrayed as shifting time/space and/or creating the universe... that's where it loses appeal for me.

That being said, I use Gengar, and Gyrados which both behave more like animals then dieties.

Is it? I've never heard that story take before.

Not a Final Fantasy fan are you?

@cobaltstarfire: I think we're on the same page here.

[Aninymouse]

Yup.

Well, it's cool to see some people are kinda feeling similar to the way I do. I hadn't spoken seriously about Pokemon in several months.

[Admiral_C]

Pokemon is Serious Business!

That's another thing I enjoy about the series actually... It can be as serious as you want it to be. There's something for the casual trainer, and the hardcore trainer. It really works for both kinds of people.

[Linkjing Donuts]

God damn it, Linkjing Donuts... OK, now you are the new Gafgarion. Gafgarion, you're taking over Linkjing Donuts's old spot. Congrats.

There. I hope you're all happy.

ahahaha i was wrong

[Gafgarion]

Eh, I am slightly confused on that last post.

[The Damned]

OK, Gafgarion is now back to being Gafgarion, and Linkjing Donuts is now back to being Linkjing Donuts. All is right in the world.