The Vagrance

The more I hear more of 9th Wonder's stuff the more I'm loving it, its so clean yet groovy.

In that case a lot of what I said about "feel" and "groove" can likely be ignored and you'll probably want a lot more melodic content, I was speaking purely from a "me and my boys are putting out a rap album and I produced it" perspective.

No prob. I'm digging it a lot, that said it doesn't really feel hip-hop if you get what I mean. If I was asked to classify it I'd associate it more along the lines of like, Royksopp or something. I guess my advice on the subject would be to remember that hip-hop is a way of life, a culture not unlike rock and roll. There's more to hip-hop than rap, rapping was one of the last things to come from it but the most corporate. A lot of people dismiss rap music because they say there's no melody but the point isn't really the melody, its the groove and the feel, the vibe you get from the record. You don't necessarily want something technically impressive if there's no soul to it. Iono, its hard to describe and take everything I say with a grain of salt because I'm a white kid from the suburbs like (I'm assuming) a fair majority on this site. I've recorded and talked to some local rappers about music, been to some hip-hop shows, listened to a lot of rap music, but I've only really been listening to it for like three or four years now. Lol, I assume you meant RZA who is more or less the head of the Wu-Tang Clan.

YES! My kind of topic! Ok, one good place to start is Stones Throw Records, which has a cult following of sorts. The main producers to look out for on this label are: - J Dilla (RIP) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw1_TOxDq14] - Madlib (Also known as The Beat Konducta, Quasimoto, and Yesterday's New Quintet, one half of Madvillain) [ ]- MF DOOM (Not really on Stones Throw but he's worked with a lot of their artists, also known as Metal Fingers, Monster Island Czars, Viktor Vaughn, a lot of other stuff I'm not thinking of immediately) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HBZ8yfPAHc] - Oh No [ ]Another big label on the underground rap front is Definitive Jux, on which you'll find such producers as: - Aesop Rock [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S99U3tz9h5A] - Blockhead [ ]- El-P (Personal favorite) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9b-ibeakUA] - RJD2 (He left the label now but most of his good stuff was on it) [ ]Then there's this new wave of rap stuff, very heavily influenced by Dilla's work but taken in a completely new direction. This is really worthwhile stuff to get into but not very typical beats: - Dabyre [ ]- Flying Lotus [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXMk5a3EW9o] - Nosaj Thing [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmqcqTh8eVM] EDIT: The mainstream (yet kinda underground) rappers to look out for in this are: - Drake - Kid Cudi - Lupe Fiasco - MURS - Nas - Pharrell - Sean Price - Wale Plus there's those classic producers to check out, like DJ Premier, Dre, RZA, Timbaland, Dan the Automator, Prince Paul, DJ Jazzy Jeff, a load of other people I'm probably not mentioning because I just woke up. So yeah, that should be a pretty solid list to get into it, and the main thing to remember is that the rap scene is interconnected not unlike 6 degrees of separation, so its worth seeing who collaborated with who and was on what label and was produced by who etc.. Also, the links are for tracks the person produced, there are a few of the producers I listed who are more notorious as rappers than producers.

Reverb sounds lovely, unfortunately I use Snow Leopard so I was subject to a horrible grating noise. I then sampled that noise and made a sketch out of it: http://tindeck.com/listen/eupd That first high pitched is squeal is the noise that was originally emitted (except it was originally being put out at max volume), the crunchy 8-bit thing afterward is the same thing but modified

http://soundcloud.com/fli/tread-lightly Tried to make it more rhythmic than wobble.

Live can do everything you just described and more.

I'm loving that Ableton is finally taking advantage of the uniqueness of their DAW. Both the Launchpad and the APC40 make me really excited about using Ableton and I'd love to get one of those pieces of gear in my dorm studio but I don't have the space/funds.

Beatdrop is almost certainly breaks unless there is a massive DnB stash I'm missing. Anyway, I'm a major junglist and I agree for the most part with the request, but at the ery least there's been a few dnb-style tunes put up already. I did a DnB Remix of Corridors of Time (the "Time Warp Mix"), there's another one that isn't quite purely DnB that gives off a nice chill LTJ Bukem vibe entitled "Electric Clouds". There's also the tefnek remix of the bike chase theme on the FFVII remix album that is remarkably great. Aside from that I am working on another three DnB remixes (and one dubstep) so keep your eyes peeled at some point for those.

Some sweet nabs, especially The Moody Blues.

New episode went up today, with a surprising lack of weed (but the inclusion of hard liquor).

Lovin' the grimey feel to it, looking forward to hearing an updated/final version

Not to sound to arrogant (which I undoubtedly will) but I can almost ensure you I've talked to more relevant people on this subject than you have. I'm talking important people inside of the scene who are the ones that keep everything turning, and I have asked them questions about the changing music scene and how to survive. That said, even they won't act like they know what's right or what's happening, the bottom line is whether the consumer gives you enough compensation of some form for the amount of effort you are putting into it. Also, this thread should be locked because this conversation is going nowhere and people are just going to end on a standstill with each other. A collection of musicians with (admittedly or not) ego issues arguing about something that affects them personally will never end well. And yes I am including myself in that classification of well.

There's too much focus on the "industry" in this thread. Ultimately its about ensuring your product gets to your customers, something that an industry used to be required for but now the question is up in the air about the uses of such a mediator. The real problem is this: people have been way too comfortable getting music for free for too long, largely in part to the RIAA throwing up complete resistance towards digital distribution of music of any form - paid or unpaid. The "industry" part of music doesn't matter, it is only a means to achieve an end. The real problem is: how do artists make money off of music? How many artists can even make a living off of music? There are a lot of answers to this question but honestly, everything everyone is suggesting is pure speculation and only time will tell.

http://blakroc.com/videos.html Some legitimately cool stuff going down in these videos, its sometimes nice to take a look into other people's creative process, especially considering the diversity of the guests on the album. So far episode 4 has been my favorite, RZA absolutely killed it on guitar (I had no idea he played). Anyway, worth a look if you're bored, and don't expect to find any nerdy "we're using this piece of gear" thing but rather a more broad look at the creative process in creating the album.

A couple of examples I know: Original: Remix: Original: Remix: Slightly less extreme Original: Remix: Both were drum and bass to begin with but its still kinda cool Original: Remix: Some other relevant tracks: SebastiAn - Dog ( )Aphex Twin - Come to Daddy [Pappy Mix] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az_7U0-cK0) Radiohead - Nude [Holy F**k Remix] ( )

HOW COULD I FORGET ARCADE FIRE?!?! Damnit, they're like the hipster icon, so foolish of me. Also, just because you're unfamiliar with J Dilla's work doesn't mean he's not innovative.

Grizzly Bear Radiohead Fuck Buttons Lil Wayne MGMT Modest Mouse Kanye West I'll wait for the pitchfork police to get me...

I'm not surprised at all, Roger and Zapp was phenomenal.

Flying Lotus and Blood Brothers are both artists who completely throw out conventions, I mean, listen to Sleepy Dinosaur (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJOQDZ14oQw) and Burn Piano Island Burn ( ) respectively, bother are completely different styles than a lot of whats out there and the song structure is much more fluid than most genres. Mew is another great band that can do stuff like this, as well as Lightning Bolt (just listened to their album last night and calling it ridiculous doesn't even get me started on it), The Unicorns (I've been all over them for a couple weeks now), Busdriver, K-OS, Bop, Bela Fleck, and a whole list of other artists who aren't coming to mind immediately.

I wouldn't call the Protomen innovative in the least bit. Great? Arguably true. Fun? Definitely. But innovative? Eh, not so much. J Dilla is definitely one of the most innovative producers in recent rap history (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIZbTAXzJsM, weird video but the song is his), its a shame he passed away so young but he is very well regarded in rap circles. Other interesting, innovative rap producers are Flying Lotus (Dabrye is very similar and came earlier but Los Angeles was groundbreaking) and El-P. Also I'd call The Blood Brothers rather innovative, especially towards the later period of their career, no one has gotten close to that weird poppy screamy sound they had. In the same vein Relationship of Command by At the Drive-In was a very innovative album for the genre. I will second Amon Tobin though, and have you guys heard Two Fingers (his project with Doubleclick)? Freakin' phenomenal!

Probably the best thing I've done for my production in a long time is starting crate digging and basically sampling anything and everything I can, and ever since I've been able to create some great mangled textures and at the very least have been exposed to a ton of music I never would have listened to otherwise. Anyone else been doing the same thing? Any neat finds?

I'm down for a haiku review thread... Civilization 4 What's this, five dollars?! I guess I'll play a little... Oh shit, its Monday World of Goo I think I got it! Oh, no, never mind, I'm wrong Fuck doing this again Okami I love you so much Its like I'm looking at art Embodied, gorgeous. Doodle Jump (for iPhone) Arriving early is much more enjoyable When you are around Castle Crashers The only reason I miss my broken Xbox Fuck you Microsoft The Unicorns - Who Will Cut Our Hair When We're Gone Not a video game But still an awesome album Well done Canada

QFT Also go for an academic version if you can and it'll be even cheaper.

More than likely, but ultimately it won't be a very noticeable or noteworthy difference.