Gario

Well, I'm gonna give you another way to look at it... If I'm using a shorter source, I'm thinking 'Holy shit! How the hell am I gonna keep everyone's interest for a considerable amount of time with a 5 second source without getting too liberal?!?'.It reminds me of a bet that I made with my brother when I (stupidly) said I could make a remix out of anything, and he gave me the damn hammer theme from Donkey Kong (it's even shorter than the starman theme...). I managed to get ~1:24 out of it without it getting too boring, but even that was DAMN hard... Formal musical knowledge helps, I'll admit, but like Rozo so kindly pointed out you can make do without it (in fact, most composers do without any problem... and that's straight from this horses mouth '~' ). The only thing I suggest is to listen, listen and listen to all sorts of music. When listening, take note of things you like and don't like. In other words, listening to music critically will make you a better musician (even if you don't ever touch music theory - all theory does it label what you hear, anyway!).It also takes practice and dedication in order to get better. Let me clue you in on something... I sucked when I started out. Whereas you actually know what the best sounds like, I didn't know about OCR (or even VGmusic)... your lucky, you've got a reference (In my noobish nature, I didn't and thought I was the shit). I made this when I was first leaning MIDI... http://www.box.net/shared/0a9on45cfo It's terrible (Clipping? What clipping??). Had some nice things, but compared to the best (as your comparing), it sucks. Move 6 years into the future, I made this... http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/CTOceanPalace.mid It's much better, and there are few midi writers that can match what I can do (or used to - I lost my program over a year ago ). The point is, it took me YEARS to learn anything about midi music, and I'm sure it'll take me years more to learn the nuances of production and sampling. It's never an easy process, but everyone has done it - In fact, I'm gonna open up a thread asking how long it has taken remixers here to get where they've gotten. You'd be surprised how long it can take. I hope to hear more from you in the future

I got it from a faculty member from my old university. That was the price of his Piano Concerto.By the way, that isn't per minute... that's per minute OF MUSIC. Thus, if your piece is 5 minutes long it'll run about 2000-5000$, even if it takes an hour to get it recorded (His was 45 minutes... that's a lot of money, right there). Sorry if that wasn't clear. Edit: Ya, you've got it right

The chord structure used is pretty common, so everyone's gonna link that to the most salient tune they can think of It's only natural... the real question is why the hell did I think Golden Sun when there was a much more popular source to link it to? I'll probably never know...

Well, if you want an orchestra to play your music, it costs around 400-1000$ per minute of score. It'll increase the value of the score, for sure, but... well if you've got that kind of money to toss around, let me in on it Just thought I'd throw that out for you

I hate bumping my own thread, but it's gotta be done, as I've got another update for you all! http://www.box.net/shared/ypm4og6258 I've fixed all clipping problems, beefed out the bass and drums one more time and got all the levels pretty high without the sound dropping out (about as high as Blind gets his stuff... well, maybe not THAT high). I've got this really sounding like I've wanted it now. I believe this is good enough for ORC. I will give you all a week to tell me I'm wrong, or tell me something is wrong with it. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a hold of Zircon, so I'll harass another J for an opinion. I'm gonna submit this otherwise Feedback is still wanted, though, so help me out! Thanks for the help you all have given, too!

I've kept an eye on this one since I commented on it a while back, and it's improved quite a bit. You've made it much louder and the soundscape fills out much nicer than before. The variations you've added are great, too. Now, as I know you want a judge to look at this, expect these two critiques - Your lead has no variation at all (as it never changes what sample you use throughout the entire track), and the samples are of the low-quality type. As Rozo said, OCR is quite elitist (and for the better, in my opinion), so if there's a seam in the piece they will rip it wide open in front of your eyes. Now, IMO because all of the synths you use serve the same purpose throughout the entire thing (the lead sample is always the lead, the texture sample is always the texture, etc.), the piece end up still sounding a bit stale at the end to my ear. Tinker with the idea of changing what samples do what. Use the lead as a quieter texture while the little bass part takes on the source melody for a while. Let the pads take the bassline for a while as the bass does some special bits on it's own. These are just ideas for you to see what I mean. When the samples return to their original purposes it'll sound fresh and interesting again. Good luck with the judges!

Woa! You really WERE paying attention to this thread! Excellent! Alright, here's the breakdown of this... Change the texture that comes in at 0:25 to E. Don't ask questions, just do it. It'll fix quite a bit with the 'wrong note' problem. That bass sound clashes with the rest of the mix. I don't know how the thing is set, so I can't say exactly where you should put it. It needs to move two whole steps down (or four semitones) in order to work with the E key that I'm suggesting. At 2:02 the theme hits a very wrong note. It should be a minor third (four semitones) above where it hits, and at 2:05 it should go up the same amount. You fix the note later in the song, so fix it here . The reverse cymbal is cool at 2:06 - 2:08, but for the genre I'd recommend making the release a lot shorter (it'll sound like the end of it 'clipped off' rather than letting it resonate). Now that I've finished nit picking, I'll give an overview... The idea you have is emerging from this song more than the last WIP, but it still isn't there yet. At the moment, it is still far too repetetive and the keys are way off. You've dramatically improved the production quality, but now the mix is too quiet. I'll use a piece of advice Rozovian always gives... "Put your music up there with other current OCR mixes and see if your's sticks out.". You'll notice that the quality of instruments is still quite under the standards, and the mix is very VERY quiet compared to theirs. Now I know that you understand you cannot simply turn up the volume, 'cause you clipping problem will return. I'm still trying to perfect the whole sound level problem myself, so I can't help you much there (Sorry!). If you want to continue this piece, make the changes I recommended above, then see if you can change the textures, vary them, do whatever it takes to make the song less repetetive. Your solos at the end really should stay in the same key at the piece starts in. Right now they meander without direction and out of key (My brother used to do the same thing on his guitar when soloing...), so change the solos so they are in key. If you don't know what I'm talking about with the whole 'key' thing... then look it up in Wikipedia . I'd personally recommend working on more than one piece here. You've been chewing on this one for almost a year - It's like spashing in a pond when you could be swimming in a lake. If you want to fix and finish this song, fine, but I recommend moving to a new song, at the same time. Post here and we'll help you out. Good luck!

Oh, well THAT submission made it obvious just64helpin... lol. Clever. You know, I actually thought you guys we're talking about the Golden Sun music. That's what came to mind, for me . Well, my submission's up. I just hope it's not too liberal for you all... I dissected the source and put pieces of it throughout for you, so it's still there .

Gargh! It sounds like something that I've heard before, too, but unlike you, Just64helpin, I don't remember where! Grrr... Perhaps I'll remember whe you post, then. Oh well, I've got something in the works, so we'll see how this turns out... and if anyone knows where to find a really nice orchestral Bass Drum sound/plugin, let me know - the one I have is severely lacking . Umm... when is the deadline? Is it the 21st (2 weeks, 4 days from March 3rd) or the 29th? I'm guessing the 21st, so you may want to fix that (unless you want us to use all that time to make something awesome even MORE awesome ). Nice source, Will.

You think THAT's big? Check out the damn FF6 ost... over 70 tracks on that (and all of them are spectacular, of course). Have you got your work cut out for you... For what's here, it's good, but I feel that this is only half of the song. If this is a title screen, then it definitely needs to be longer. I mean, seriously; how will you reward those listeners that actually let the title screen run on just to hear the entire song? MM3's title screen did it; those that were always impatient and pushed start too quickly missed out on one of the best VG songs ever created... Like I said, though, it's great so far for what it is!

Hey, this reminds me of the good ol' Button Mashers... Hey Xenon, what ever happened to those guys? They were incredible! BTW, awesome junk, here, although I don't know the source for your latest one .

I think it's the chords that I'm thinknig about, the chords that sound like - Baah - Baah - Baah - Bah - Baah - Bah - Baah - Baah - Baah - repeat... ...for a lack of a better way to describe it... I think it enters at 0:18 on the mandolin' like instrument. I hear it in more of the piece, now that I'm listening... better stick my foot in my mouth, now . Gee, your a pal . It's not the change itself that's ackward, it's the lead that goes from one key to the next. It sounds like it wanted to go up (like the older mix), but then slides down to the appropriate key. I believe it's simply a residue of what you were trying to do before... then the lead changes it's mind and moves somewhere else. The drums sound just right for me, as they are now. Nice fix, there! You've still got a few weeks before you can sub, right? Still time to make the piece better!

Ok, I understand that the source is in the track name, but if you want people to look at your post then post the source in the thread name. Also, it helps to post the source tune in the thread for those that aren't familiar with it (like me). On with the show... To be honest, the mixing and bitrate are excellent, so the J's won't be hammering you for that . The synth will probably get you knocked down a little bit... It sounds like it would sound great as an organ (not church, more like a draw organ), though, if you want some idea as to what may sound good, there. The ending is a bit weak. The quasi-fade out ending doesn't leave me feeling satisfied. These are the main issues going against you at the moment, for me. If you want to have an idea as to how this'll fare on OC, I'd listen to this next to some Sixto guitar music, as the genre is similar. If it compares to it in you mind, then it's certainly worthy of a submission. The reason I can't give you a clear 'Yes' or 'No' is because I have no clue how the source goes, so my answer wouldn't be complete. Hope this helps!

Heh, I'm glad you caught on to the sig, Will. Yes, the irony was intentional, there. Call me an ironic son of a gun . It also follows the theme of the site at the same time - to make video game music a real experience outside of the game itself, so it's got a duel meaning, there... Now that you caught me I've got to go and change it .I'll listen to the new track in about an hour or so, 'cause I've gotta go... so I'll be back!

lol, glad you liked the posts ... and sorry that I can't make it any simpler than that. It's a historical kind of thing, and many people have difficulty hearing what is wrong with it (as it is used in more contemporary music, now, anyhow). The only thing is that many composers write in a language that is over 400 years old, and the P5ths rule holds sway on that style. Heh, it would sound devastating if you were taught theory (with the proper aural training that should accompany it). One of the first things you learn is that P5ths are taboo for tonal music... It's part of the reason that I can't stand it in the context of tonal stuff (which this counts as, BTW) . I feel better for it, though.Don't worry, I'm not gonna expand on the P5ths epic I've created... but I'd simply suggest trying out some different things at the parts I mentioned, and if they don't work for you, go back to what you had before. Perhaps you'll find that there is something out there that sounds better for you (and me, lol)... Ok, I agree that the drums may be a bit loud for this track (mainly the bass). They drive the music, for sure, but the bass seems a little loud for me, right now. Otherwise they're good (especially with the additional doodads you've added). I actually like where the key went better this time (as it took some of the 'edge' off of the background texture), but how you approached it sounded a bit worse. That sliding lead really messed with my head, there (in a bad way). I made some suggestions on this before, and they still hold true, IMO. As for being anticlimatic, I actually liked the subdued sound of it all. Not all music needs a climax, really... BTW, I sort of miss the intro material that you expand on in the beginning of the piece... I think it could be in more of the music as additional texture to add some richness to it all. I want more of it! Keep it comin'!

My brother DL'd the torrent for this site about a week ago, so I thought I'd meander around the tracks for a bit... then I stumbled on this gem. Strange, but the only thing I can say right now is that it's far greater than the sum of it's parts! I just got done teaching a math class, so go figure It's a shame that OC doesn't accept chiptune pieces anymore - we're probably missing out on quite a few gems like this!

Hey, I remember this one! Back when I heard it, though, it had vocals... It sounds like you took them out to focus on other things. I think it's ready to have them put back in, again. The genre calls for vocals to be the focus of attention; the background textures and harmonies are interesting and cool, but need vocals in order for this to sound complete. At 4:12 - 4:15 and 4:30 - 4:32, you have an electric piano in the mix. Don't get me wrong, the jazzy harmonies are nice, but the melodic work in it sounds off at those parts. Fix the melodies up, there. At 4:52, I really like the slap bass. Does anyone remember the game 'Utopia' for the SNES? It's bringing that to mind, for me... After a while, though, that cool bass becomes stale. I'd hold off on it after about 45 seconds... The ending needs some cleaning up. The guitar work is messy and doesn't work very well on it's own, right now. I'd say even though the source doesn't change up the harmonies much, you must. The four harmony sequence you repeat eventually just sounds lazy. Your gonna sing over this, right? Make a significant harmonic change for where you plan on putting your chorus, it'll help distinguish it from other parts. There's a part (1:12 - 1:16) where the volume turns down (or suddenly is hard-panned); whether that was intentional or not, it sounds like a mistake, right now. I'd change that. In general, it sounds good. It'll sound better when you get those vocals back in, though, so I'll keep an ear out on this one, again!

Right, right. I think you nailed it... I can understand if you want to keep the leaping melodic lines at 0:30 - 0:40 and 1:09 - 1:20, etc., but it doesn't sound right to me. I notice that most people aren't having a fit over it like I am, so maybe it's just me, in this case I'm just saying, like I did earlier in the thread (and I did find the post that says this; it's just buried in the midst of the monster thread, here) that leaping around with the melody when the harmonies are static isn't a good idea. If you need variety, I'd suggest using timbre, texture or rhythm to achieve that. If no one else hears what I'm talking about... well, again, maybe it's me, here As for the 'missed beats', I hear what that's about... Are you starting the song with 2 beats of silence? If you are, then I'd recommend moving the whole thing back those two beats and looking at how the measures line up then... SlyGeN is hearing the missing 'two beats' that makes everything look shifted when you move the start of the song to there. I don't have a problem with it, personally, but if you want to play around with adding some stuff to make everything line up properly, then that's the place to start. Sorry for not being clear about my statements earlier, BTW...

-BUMP!- Ok, everyone, I've finally gotten around to updating this. Tell me what you think. http://www.box.net/shared/rqrgluikb4 I've done a whole bunch of stuff to the mixing/mastering, so it sounds a lot more clear. Ive also FINALLY addressed you issue with the drums, Dafydd, and went through the entire song and used more of an electronic sound (and yes, there is still a snare, to give some variety to the sections). I tinkered with the lead, trying to dull it down a bit in parts so it wasn't so piercing at parts... The end is still slightly loud, as well. I still have some work on those, so stay tuned. I'm gonna PM Zircon about the quality, then (if there isn't any glaring problem posted here) I'll submit it Thoughts?

Zircon's the man, in this department, so if he says use headphones, then use headphones... Actually, I can't fathom trying to do it any other way, due to how finicky monitors can be. It is interesting, however, to sit back sometimes and listen to your piece with common speakers, just to hear how it sounds. When I write my music I try to mix and master while writing the piece as much as possible. I think of mastering as a part of the composition process, myself, so I can't just leave it at the last minute (I use to wait until the end to do that stuff... bad idea ). Hah, I've had that happen a lot. One way to diffuse it somewhat is to write it into the music. If it sounds better, great! Otherwise, take it back out, and it shouldn't bother you anymore. Your brain now has a proper aural image in it, and because didn't sound right in there, you won't be singing it to yourself... Of course, you've got to catch yourself doing it, in the first place. I tend to sing to myself when I write, so when I sing something that isn't there, it's pretty obvious...

It sounds better. Now that we got that out of the way, lets see what we've got going on here... Why, oh why, does the volume go up and down periodically? Did you insert it or is it an artifact? Try to get rid of this. I like the added percussive effects in the beginning, as well as the synth. It ties to the source better, now . Eesh, perhaps the new lead is a bit harsh (although I like it when you play with the EQ on it...). I think there is a place and time for that lead, and one for your old lead. Why not use both? I'm not that familiar with DnB, but I don't nkow if it's sounding like that genre anymore... It's starting to sound like Electronica. I don't think that's bad, but I don't know if that's what you want. The shifty melody is still there (Ack, in even more places, too!) I've talked about it before, so you know what I'm saying, there ... Ok, the 'ending' with the echo sounds like it's actually gonna echo, then go into an 'Oh SHIT' double time part. Well, do what your gonna do, there, but I suggest letting the echo play for about a measure, then moving into double time and beating the crap uot of the listener. We're still here, so keep postin'!

I understand how that is... but money shouldn't be a big problem if you want to learn. Yoozer's got the best method around when it comes to learning, and that is by listening to other pieces of music. Do this critically; listen to what the music does and ask yourself what the patterns are and why. This is, in fact, how I started to compose music (except I went the opposite way you did - remixed video game music and then wrote my own stuff). Also, you can look up information online for some basic music theory which could help you get around the basic terminology that we may be throwing around (key, tonic, chord, scale, etc... look em' up!). These can help your composing dramatically, but it requires you to do some of the footwork! Oh, and if your getting into remixing in general, video game music isn't the only thing you can remix (Oh! I've committed an OC sin!!). If your more comfortable with heavy metal, remix heavy metal songs. If R&B is your forte, then remix some popular R&B. And one last note... I'd recommend playing other people's music on your keyboard (listen and then play it, read sheet music, whatever). It'll help you make connections that sometimes you cannot make by listening alone. I wish you the best!

Well, of course; I'm not telling him what to do, just giving suggestions (as are we all). I'm giving some depth behind my critiquing 'cause he asked for it... ...and blame Hemophiliac for my ungodly post size; he put me up to it .

Thanks a lot, guys! Audacity works great for this! I knew about Audacity, but I didn't know that it was for conversions. I knew it was great for recording, but thats it. This makes my day; thanks!