eternal Zero

Welcome to the world of DotA. No mercy.

Tensei hit on it. It's the amount of casting as well as the ability it gives them to super farm. Soul Reaper can cast a lot and Valk has that small chance to hit a target within melee range a second time which any skillful player can abuse again and again. Also both are much easier to aim than Nymph/Jer. Also it is fine to counter an ultimate with magic resist because it takes a while to build up. It's much harder to prevent a regular spell from already doing it's lasting damage to your team even if you go for magic resist. Take Thunderbringer for example. Like him, by the time you can afford the magic resistance he'll have done his job. Unlike Moon Queen who needs to get lucky once or twice with her weak level 6 ult before you get your resist. Granted I am assuming faithful ports here. I don't know about SoulReaper but I know for fact that Valkyrie is not a faithful port of Priestess of the Moon. Also you assume Valk's stun is the first stun and that they can dodge it. You would be incorrect as most situations dictate that you are the second disable that is the nail in the coffin.

I actually don't think he's garbage anymore. Definitely not a great hero by any means but he's no longer completely useless. Still really weak in a real game but in a pub he can definitely hold his own. Didn't notice him on the list. Definitely not A. Drop both him and Night Hound to C. MB has two main uses: Tank and Caster Killer. The pro build is Vanguard->Heart as all he needs is to survive. In the pro metagame he used to be quite effective because casters were all too common. In a regular pub he could be a star but he requires a lot of farm to do so. Otherwise he's another right-click hero in a teamfight and this is largely useless. As for Moon Queen she requires massive amounts of farm to be useful. The only reason she should be picked over another carry is if your team is good and coordinated enough to stack the ancient creep spawns for you since she is the fastest farmer in that respect. However in lane her attack bounces will push your lane and put you into danger so you can't start with that. Same reason you can't get her aura early or you will be placing yourself at risk. Therefore she is mana reliant early game in order to maintain some semblance of lane control (which she is quite bad at). Her ult isn't to be used as a main combat tool because making magic damage useless is far too common and easy. Soul Reaper. AoE damage/heal is one of the best spells in the game. Easy farm/harass as well as significant damage far into the late game. His AoE degen aura is great in lane to keep the opposing side low on hp. You can't compare his ult to those two because it always scales where the other two do not. Andromeda is solid support but won't keep losing games alive. I'd only consider picking her over other stunners if my entire team was as skilled as I am because she sets a ganking pace to the game. Valk is one of the longest and best skill oriented stuns in the game. She isn't a hard carry so don't look at stat gain. Her AoE damage is sickening up until the later part of the late game. Leap should be seen as an excellent team buff. Her ult is nice and tricky and adds a lot. She is a solid ganker/anti-ganker and my favorite agi-hero. Also sees ton of play in pro DotA for these very reasons. I'm willing to accept your view on Puppet, however. Had the same kind of feelings/arguments with my roommate and Silencer in DotA. Also no such thing as a God Tier. Magmus B. Jer A and Tempest A. They're not -that- good.

Switching the format. Bold = upgrade. Underline = downgrade. Double underline = double downgrade. Ophelia is a B but only in the right hands. Maliken is a C. Soul Reaper is A and possibly S. He is one of the best anti-carry heroes currently in the game. You currently place far too much emphasis on heroes who usually rely on a lot of farm and/or carry due to the nature of the games you play at your level. I don't mean to sound condescending but it's true.

Oh God, Douli. I laughed out loud.

Either one or two stats affect your ability to carry: Agi and your primary stat. Primary stat gives you damage. Agi gives you armor and attack speed. Wretched Hag has some pretty sick stat growth which used to be even better which is why she was considered a late game DPSer though this was mostly with Guinsoo/Skaadi for the high damage disable chasing. The only thing I dislike about your tier decisions so far is the lack of vision of heroes in a team setting. Either you think of them in situations where they are useless or they are most useful because of their team setup. This isn't an individuals game so viewing the heroes as such kinda bothers me.

Wretched Hag used to be the end-all super solo of DotA before she got a massive nerf. She definitely has poorly costed spells as well as a bad animation and attack range. It used to be so good you have no idea. As for Slither. He is agi support to the max. He is the king of agi ganking Madman and Arachna don't even come close. The main reason is that Arachna and Madman shouldn't be ganking early but farming and creating an advantage. Slither wins lanes all by himself and then goes to win other lanes for his team. He is a definite midrange hero where he loses steam in the lategame but every single one of his abilities is useful and he is one of my favorite heroes.

http://kanyelicio.us/http://ocremix.org

Sigh, Zircon. You have much to learn. Stealth is not the benefit. It is always obvious where he will be running because you only get 4 seconds of it. It is lack of being able to be targetted as well as lots of damage. Backstab damage does not compare because 1. Scout is a worthless hero that will never ever see play outside of noob stomping and 2. That's only to a single target whereas Madman's can give him easy farm and harass an entire team for good damage. That are also coupled with a max movespeed invis to allow for great positioning? Also one that doesn't compromise his position into the middle of the enemy team? Name another hero who has both a natural crit chance as well as a built in way to boost his attack speed to high levels. See how they stack up. Did you really just try and justify Blacksmith? No. The numbers simply do not compare. Also War Beast only gets it for so long then has a long cool down of nothing. Madman still gets his max movespeed for 4 seconds with only 2 seconds of cooldown in between. Also it only has about 20 seconds of cool so it's still superior. While you're only partially (but not really because each individual spell is still better than the counterparts you mentioned even alone) correct about the moves being "nothing special" it is definitely the fact that S2 was dumb enough to put them all onto a single hero. The only hero really worth the time they spent designing is probably Electrician. Definitely the only new hero that would be worth putting back into DotA.

The Dark Lady is comparable to Chronos in how limited her use is. She's solid when farmed but does crap early game. Though unlike Chronos solid teamwork and communication can prevent her ult from being super useful. I can only recount one time where she has been a factor in my losing a scrim. Edit: Also all bash effects share the same cooldown so you can't permabash for all you DotA folk. Another reason why Chronos isn't so viable anymore. And to the orb stacking this is why Magina is pretty good as a hard carry when farmed now instead of his usual super tank build. With Satanic and his attack speed he can have nearly infinite effective hp until he's gotta run away.

Don't be stingy!

If you had gotten it sooner I play a solid Valkyrie so I could have done that.

You guys misunderstand. Even if I go hot early with any character some just can't win games...Slither for example...haha

Main: antigrav Alt: eternalzero Alt I'm starting to use more: ZeroEdition And like I said. I don't idle ingame much so if you want to play me just find me on AIM. Chances are I will say yes.

Zircon. Find a competitive guide to Clockwerk. This will illuminate his power much more than I ever could. As an anti-initiator, he can hook himself to the enemy Behemoth/Tempest before they immune up and blink in as his team follows and win team fights. Also I recommend watching some replays but that might be asking a bit much since not everyone watches pro DotA, haha.

So for Wildsoul. I love him just like you. He's so cool. Also I have strong micro so I do some crazy things. It's just that he wants to push just like you said and pushing teams generally lose because you need to end the game before 30 mins but you leave yourself far into enemy territory early with relatively minor gold advantage for killing towers. As for Zephyr. I have always liked him because I love to rice and play carries. Problem is that his best spell (his shield) loses completely to Diffusal. Though I do agree that with his ult actually working as intended that's a huge buff for him. So I just had a game with Arek (cause the rest of you guys are poop and are done for now. It was pretty good. Went like 30-4 and was lvl 22 when the 9 other players were lvl 11 as Blood Hunter. But that's not the important part. Arek has the basics down (which I'm sure most of you do) and he asked a pretty important question (I go by Miki btw): 5:21:58 PM) Arek: what do you think i should work on considering what you saw (5:22:06 PM) Miki: knowing when to cast your ult so you don't waste it (5:22:16 PM) Miki: understanding builds more (this just requires studying) (5:22:27 PM) Arek: i only know how to play int : / (5:22:31 PM) Miki: also knowing when to let a kill go when you aren't the primary carry anymore (5:22:47 PM) Miki: like you kept chasing some dudes when it was an impossibility for them to escape me (5:22:57 PM) Miki: where if you just started on the next one and got him low. i'd get him too (5:22:59 PM) Miki: y'know? (5:23:03 PM) Arek: yea (5:23:03 PM) Miki: it's like (5:23:08 PM) Miki: you do it well once i tell you (5:23:23 PM) Miki: you have to get to the point of familiarity where i don't have to say a word Practice practice practice. Also don't be afraid to play people much better than you. That's how I learned too.

Also hit me up on AIM when you guys are playing. Like I said I'm not an IRC person.

Well okay I'll just invalidate this tier. Chronos: A hard carry. Is more useful with the Aghanim's fix but still weak. Belongs in C tier. Voodoo Jester: Solid support ganker. Maledict makes many kills happen that would be impossible otherwise. Belongs in C Tier. Pharoah: One of the best gankers and anti-initiators in the game. His equivalent, Clockwerk Goblin, is seen in 8/10 pro DotA games. Definitely your S or A tier. He's that good. Puppet Master: This game's current variant of Silencer. Strong but requires some buildup and won't win games by himself. Belongs in B tier. Who does belong in Garbage Tier? Scout. Potentially Night Hound due to Backstab being physical damage thus making him near useless though the fix on the cast point of his smog did help him. Also some suggestions but I'm not wanting to type more descriptions: Pestilence: B War Beast: B Wildsoul: C Ophelia: A Zephyr: B Maliken: Haven't played him so don't know. Wretched Hag: B Hammerstorm: A

Oh I know. I'm just saying I don't do tiers. 'Specially not for this game.

I don't like tiers but we'll agree to disagree because I think you're wrong, haha.

The only things you'll be disappointed with are the lack of all of the heroes as well as some minor differences from DotA. Otherwise this has stopped me from being able to stand playing DotA just because of how clearly superior HoN is.

I personally feel otherwise. This is much harder to get into due to the team aspect. It's really not the same game at the level that some people play it at. It's not the same for me and like Maelk (one of my fav pros). It's probably not the same for me and you. The nice part about DotA/HoN is that while it is a competitive game it scales with you for the most part but the learning curve can be harsh. Also about comments like "We could have won with _____ playing a carry." I think they're fine, personally, because I make that statement about myself all the time, haha. Hey Donut, I know stats are pretty useless in terms of assessing skill, but if your KDR is that high then why aren't your PSR up there, too? I only ask because my KDR was also very high before the implementation of PSR (like 5:1) but that's cause I was clearly playing people inferior to me. Now with my hovering around 2k PSR (though I'm really low due to a losing streak, low 1900s) games are not a sure thing anymore with my friends and it's really rewarding to see who deserves to be in the top 100 players right now. Is it cause you mostly play with these guys? Cause I mean I totally get the only having time for a few games a day and wanting to play with friends vs pubs regardless of what level it's at.

Sorry but I'm quite wary of sharing the replay site info. Not only did I get it from said friends on the inside so I don't know if I'm allowed to share it, but from a competitive standpoint I get to see how our next opponents play even if I've never heard of them before. Though I guess I could share it with like one or two of you under like a bro's promise of not sharing it with others. (Also I exposed the fact that the top two PSR players in HoN right now use 1v5 games against smurf accounts to buff up their PSR which is kind of amusing to me that they care that much.) Edit: Also any item is silly on Scout because he should never be played. =D

Yes. I started playing DotA about six years ago. I am also currently the head of my clan's competitive team. I didn't explicitly mention that we were a professional DotA clan. If you make illogical assumptions all by yourself and try and troll me for it don't expect to be very well liked. Also I hate it too when people don't swap fast enough and people get heroes they can't play and then it's effectively a 4v5 the rest of the match. Edit: Also, Zircon! I checked the replay site to see how you guys usually play and stuff. I've got some advice for you! The Runed Cleaver (The axe made from Manatube, Lifetube, and the 1200 and 1400 swords) doesn't work on ranged heroes so that was a waste of money for your Soulstealer. Btw I'm referencing your 4v4 OCR inhouse on 9/10/2009 @9:32 PM EST. Also primary item for Defiler should be Bloodstone. I apologize for not remembering the HoN name. And just looking at these times you guys definitely play earlier in the day than I do. =/ Oh well we'll make it work. Edit Round 2:: Bloodstone = Sacrificial Stone.

I think the main difference is that developers of different Mario games make the games first then just slap Mario on there for the name. Different Sonic games try to change Sonic instead of making a solid game first. Much like how the most recent one added 3D combat and tedious levels instead of making a solid adventure game and THEN making it a Sonic game after the fact.