big giant circles

How do people think up stuff like this? I am amazed on at least a couple different levels.

Haha, indeed. Look fellers, Edge and Damned have really just simplified this whole matter with what they just touched on. Determining the value of a product based on how much you use it. It's a pretty sensible idea, really. I paid $45 for L4D, and I have probably got 200+ hours of fun out of it. If we run with our Metroid Prime example, I've played through both probably 3 times each. At ~6 hours per run-through, that's ~36 hours. I'm willing to wager that every single person (out of the 45,000+ members) of the boycott have played the game at least 50 hours. Personally, I'd say they've got their money's worth. And yet when presented with a sequel, they immediately forget all the satisfaction they have got (and that many are still probably getting) from playing the game for hours and hours and hours, and start demanding that they receive more for free or cheap. That's just unhealthy, plain and simple. Naturally, I suppose Valve's generosity with TF2 was ultimately the damning motion in this pathetic Catch-22 that they're in, which again, I find exceptionally sad, disappointing, and disgusting. Here's an analogy. Let's say I saw that my neighbor's lawn was getting too long and one day I decided to be a good neighbor and mow it for him without expecting compensation. In a couple weeks, the grass is long again, so I mow his lawn again. Repeat this process a few more times. Then, a couple weeks later, he shows up on my doorstep and demands to know why I haven't mowed his lawn again already. I would be livid. I'd probably spit right in his face. Instead of gratitude or excitement, he has taken advantage of a courtesy I provided and displayed contemptible greed and and selfishness. His fictional behavior is not unlike the actual behavior of all the participants (past or current) of the boycott. And for the possible few (I'd imagine very very few) who are boycotting who have only played the game for a few hours, I suppose I wouldn't want to pay full price for a sequel either. But 1)Why do you care? You don't even play the game much. and 2)Lucky for you Valve will probably be having a 1/2 off sale very shortly. And if they don't, it'll be down to $30 in a few months anyway, and probably $15 or $20 within a couple years. The rest of us are willing to pay a higher price to play the game right away. You do not have that right if you don't pay up. Do you have a problem with this? Too bad, that's how games/movies have always worked. Better learn to live with it.

Echo! echo... echo... echo...

For those of you who love electronic music and don't have it, I highly recommend RP's Blue Synth. It's really easy to use, and the sounds are serene and smooth, it's quickly climbed it's way up to be one of my favorite synths! I just checked out the demo track, and the sounds are really amazing. I'll likely be picking up the soundpack shortly, Shaun. Sounds like you did a great job on these!

Who on earth is that? That's not Paige... Many congrats, man! Best to you both!

Not gonna happen for me. MAGfest is my OCR meetup and jam-time. And probably Taucer's house party.

Yeah, I just deleted it. Honestly, like, that one star that you just have to stand around and wait for the cloud to move for like a couple hours? Seriously? I do not feel like idling in Braid for two hours.

Man, I'm doing my best to not hate on ya, but you have contradicted yourself several times through the whole discourse of this discussion. You just admitted to the selfish greed of gamers. You acknowledged that games require more money, people, and resources to produce. Yet you still somehow feel that L4D2 being a mere add-on is a sensible thing. You say the demographic does matter, yet you speculate that all people in general suffer from greed, not just gamers. (Which is EXACTLY why I said the demographic was irrelevant). All this coupled with the fact that you used to be on the boycott to begin with at all make it difficult for me to accept that anything you say is well thought out to begin with. Again, not trying to be a d-bag here, but I just haven't heard anything that makes pure and plain sense come from you on the matter yet.

Braid is a brilliant game, and the puzzles are extremely clever. That being said, the game is simply not for me. I've already said this on facebook, but I think I would have loved Braid 10 years ago or so, back when I was into doing stuff like Speedruns, and timing subtle split-second movements down to a fine art. But I just don't have the patience for this stuff anymore. Some of the solutions/achievements take a ridiculously long time to get, even if you know how to do them. Also, it's a pretty difficult game, again, even after you've figured out the "trick" for whatever puzzle you're currently on. Anyone who says that the game is not hard is either lying, or just trying to show off But anyway, it's a cool game. Just don't expect to love it just because it's got good reviews.

yes, but it's a worthwhile monumental task!

And I reiterate that you are missing the point entirely. Besides, think about what you just said. They cost more to make now and require more people. And now after you have acknowledged this, does it not strike you as senseless that people are demanding it as either a free/cheap expansion? The demographic is completely and entirely irrelevant. I used Sonic because it's the first example that popped into my head. I suppose you can make the same point with, say Metroid Prime if you want a more recent example with a larger team of programmers. Look at the differences between 1 and 2 (of either game). The gameplay is more or less exactly the same, only in 2 there are some new abilities, new levels, new enemies and characters. Does this sound familiar? My point is that nobody boycotted either of those games pissing and moaning that they should be free expansions. And the whole "but BGC, L4D is an online game, that's totally different" is not now, or not ever going to be a valid or relevant point in this discussion. A game is a game. The whole fickleness of gamers nowadays is part of the core reason for my disgust. Especially concerning a company like Valve. I mean, out of every game producing company, compare Valve to any other and I don't believe anyone in their right and fair mind can deny just how generous they've been to gamers. Not only have they consistently put out some of the most amazing (and popular) games of all time, but they created Steam, which is an absolutely fantastic medium for playing and purchasing games. They constantly have really great sales and bundled deals that I really don't seem to recall any other company matching before. They've given us fantastic upgrades and support for these games. At no point was Valve ever required to provide any expansions for TF2, but I imagine they did because 1) they've always been really good to their fans and 2) based on the staying power of games like CS and TFC, they probably realized that offering small enhancements from time to time would probably sustain sales as well as the game's appeal to long-time players. Furthermore, they were never required to give us any new content for L4D, but they did. Not to mention all the tweaking that was done as an effort to balance out VS play to the maximum degree. And they're STILL giving us new content for it. This whole situation is the prime example of "Give 'em a finger and they'll take the whole hand", except it really ought to be amplified to say that Valve gave us the whole hand, and people want to take the whole damn arm. Can you really, truly, honestly, and sensibly deny that that is exactly the case with the boycotters? I certainly hope not, but if so, I suppose naivety and shortsightedness are some things people actually ARE entitled to.

If you can shell out just a little more, you can get the full ProKeys, which has weighted Keys. $528 at Amazon.

Yeah, I can see the appeal to the idea in theory. Until then though, I'd still say that NI's attributes browser is still by far the most effective.

Come on guys, I'm losing complete faith in some of y'all here. It's the principle of the matter, for one. Look at the differences from Sonic to Sonic 2. They're essentially the "same game" in the same sense. But there are new levels and new characters and bosses. Sound familiar? Second, heck, most people were vocal that L4D was in fact "too short" when it was released. All 4 campaigns can be completed in ~4 hours. I'm a little bothered that I have to remind you (again) that Valve HAS supported L4D with bug fixes and new content.

Naw man, that's a sorry excuse. It's a single player game that has online playability, plus, that's beside the point entirely. Well, there's nothing to understand beyond the point that people are greedy little squats nowadays. That is the ONLY reason people are pissed. Every reason people have thrown out that they're bitching at Valve for is complete and utter BS. They're mad because Valve didn't release updates/addons for L4D? Give me a break. They've fixed a zillion things and given us more vs maps and survival mode (and Crash Course is due shortly). "But L4D2 is being released too soon" Give me a damn break. Seriously. I shouldn't even have to reiterate all the completely NEW stuff that's going to be in L4D2. Again, it's complete greed that is flat out DOMINATING this issue, and it disgusts me.

There were some good upgrades between 7 and 8. http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24628

I definitely see what you're saying and where you're coming from, but even then, I feel like this song is a unique case. Its length coupled with the fact that it's kind of a mess make me skeptical that if in the event that it's passed, we'll be able to get a small enough version without running into impassible encoding issues. It's a little easier to bump the encoding down on a softer track, but this thing is the epitome of a wall of sound. It's 20 oz of liquid packed into a 12 oz can. Also, what's this about bumping the file limit up to 8 now?

Damn right you had no reason to complain in the first place. I'm just tired of people finding every possible reason to be dissatisfied. It's completely preposterous. Remember back when you had to pay for every sequel, and nobody complained? I don't seem to recall anyone being upset when, say, Sonic 2 was released in '92 after '91 had already produced Sonic 1. My theory? Because back then people were just excited to get a new game. They weren't a generation of greedy, self-entitled, whiny douchebags.

This isn't nearly as funny as the macbook wheel, but it's still worthy of a chuckle, and honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if there really are some people who are so ridiculously brainwashed by Apple's "innovations" that something like this doesn't seem quite so much of a stretch.

Naw, he makes a point. I have no idea what HoN is, and I don't care enough/am too lazy to bother looking it up. That just makes his post pointless as far as I'm concerned.

*bump* So can we get a proper file size version of this?

Don't mistake me fellas, I LOVE aftertouch, I'm so thrilled that my Axiom just happened to have it before I really even knew what it was. What I said was "it's not all that necessary most of the time." I didn't say "it's not an awesome feature to have and opens some cool doors". Big difference between awesome and necessary (Though I suppose that for this topic, "necessary" can be pretty subjective) ********** Also David, since you were fortunate enough to snag Komplete 5 (I bet you still got it for $399, right?) is there a particular reason that you wanted a keyboard with built-in sounds? Nothing at all wrong with that if you do, I guess it just depends on how often you'll be playing it without your computer. Komplete 5 boasts somewhere between 7-8000 sounds right out of the box, and it pretty well covers every instrument category there is - pianos, synths, bass, guitar, pads, drums, organs, strings, ethnic, you name it. Also, if you're planning on using Cubase as your primary DAW software, you could always take your MM8 back and grab something like the Yamaha KX8 (if your store still has 'em). It's an 88-key weighted MIDI controller, it actually looks identical (in shape) to the MM8, and it's set up to work pretty well with Cubase. (Still no aftertouch, though, if I'm not mistaken.) But it's only $300, so while you'd be forfeiting your MM8 sounds, remember, you still have thousands of sounds to play with in K5, plus, you'd score about $600 back. Also, I'm kind of in the same boat as Zephyr when it comes to using aftertouch. I can't deny it's a hella fun feature, and as Harmony said, it definitely can open some new paths for you, but speaking only from my own experience, I just rarely ever use it when I'm actually recording/sequencing. Of course, I'm much more of a mouse and piano roll guy, and Harmony can (quite obviously) rock out the keyboard for his sequencing

Fixed that for you. Fixed that for you. Yeah man, but seriously, that's cool that they're your real-life friends, but there's just as many cool/fun people to play it with you online. And seriously, your friends need to wise up and play it on the platform that 1)costs less 2)receives updates/fixes/new content more frequently 3)rinse & repeat

Eh, not really that I can think of. The MM8 is somewhere between a watered-down MO8 and a beefed up YPG-635. (MM actually stands for "Mini-MO"). It's probably not going to be that easy to sequence with if you plan on doing it all entirely on the keyboard, but it'll work just fine if you're hooked up to a DAW and using it as a MIDI keyboard. $880 is probably about as reasonable a deal as you're going to find on it. Plus, if you return it (assuming it's still in the 14-day return period), they're likely to charge you a 15% restocking fee, so I'd just go ahead and keep it. Aftertouch is similar to having a pressure-activated modwheel built into every single key. It's great for live performance, but you said that's not an issue. Plus, not that many things use a lot of after touch, so while it's a nifty bell/whistle, it's not all that necessary most of the time, so I wouldn't worry too much about that either. Also, never ever ever ever base "a good deal" on the MSRP. NOTHING ever sells for MSRP, so really, it's pretty misleading from the start. GC is pretty good about not flaunting that crap, but places like Sweetwater make a huge deal about it, and it's a bunch of BS. "Save $429 if you buy NOW!!!". Rubbish.

The L4D community by and large absolutely disgusts me. Seriously, I have never ever ever known another community of gamers to be so ridiculously whiny/bratty/self-entitled. And while I don't bringing those too chumps to their HQ to test out the game, it kind of disgusts me in a way too. It's like, they were rewarded for leading this campaign of douche-baggery. It's a good thing I'm not Gabe Newell. I'd keep tabs on every single person who was part of the Valve boycott and ban their Steam accounts. :?