Bahamut Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I'm in a similar situation with the MacBook Pro. Goddam is it irritating with only rumors to go on, but I know that waiting til the redesign will pay off. Why would you buy a Macbook Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Why would you buy a Macbook Pro I bought my current HP laptop in 2005. Last year nearly every part had to be replaced (thankfully while it was still under warranty). And now it still doesn't work very well. Windows Vista (which I'm using because XP doesn't have my laptop's drivers and it was difficult to hunt them all down) is irritating. I can't start learning to remix because DirectSound is crap and ASIO4All doesn't work My programs are slow as balls even though I perform maintenance on the thing every other day My battery has been replaced, yet has a maximum life of one hour and likes to fall out of my laptop every now and again and completely kill whatever I was working on Compare that to: An incredibly well-built and popular machine which has reached a point where it can be appreciated by more than its diehard fans (i.e. mid-90s Apple) Exclusive, high-quality programs which are heralded by amateurs, professionals, and people on this site alike Much less spyware crap Core audio (which makes computer music possible) The ability to program small additions to the OS (which sounds damn awesome to me) Hell, an OS which is significantly updated by the company in a much shorter timeframe than Microsoft And let's not forget the removal of a major roadblock to switching: the ability to still run all my Windows programs. Would you like the long version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 And let's not forget the removal of a major roadblock to switching: the ability to still run all my Windows programs. Woah, what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Or you could just use Boot Camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yes, but boot camp requires a restart every time you want to run a Windows program. And what about running a Windows and Mac program simultaneously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 I bought my current HP laptop in 2005. Last year nearly every part had to be replaced (thankfully while it was still under warranty). And now it still doesn't work very well. Windows Vista (which I'm using because XP doesn't have my laptop's drivers and it was difficult to hunt them all down) is irritating. I can't start learning to remix because DirectSound is crap and ASIO4All doesn't work My programs are slow as balls even though I perform maintenance on the thing every other day My battery has been replaced, yet has a maximum life of one hour and likes to fall out of my laptop every now and again and completely kill whatever I was working on Compare that to: An incredibly well-built and popular machine which has reached a point where it can be appreciated by more than its diehard fans (i.e. mid-90s Apple) Exclusive, high-quality programs which are heralded by amateurs, professionals, and people on this site alike Much less spyware crap Core audio (which makes computer music possible) The ability to program small additions to the OS (which sounds damn awesome to me) Hell, an OS which is significantly updated by the company in a much shorter timeframe than Microsoft And let's not forget the removal of a major roadblock to switching: the ability to still run all my Windows programs. Would you like the long version? The Macbook Pros are not without their faults either. I have heard of overheating issues with it due to its design and crappy thermal paste (this is more with the early Macbook Pros but still). While I use a Macbook for a laptop, I can say that my experience is less than pleasant on it as well. It seems much slower compared to its Windows counterparts (my brother's Dell laptops are so much better than this crap), and parts of it literally have chipped away in about an year of use (not even from the computer falling, but while in one place) - there's a hole where I can see inside my computer. In addition, the USB ports are very spotty at times with USB detection, and there are still some programs that seem quite buggier than their counterparts on other computers (Firefox 2 & 3 come to mind). I can tell you right now, a lot of the problems you think a Mac would solve, won't do any of the sort at all. Some of them aren't Apple's fault (i.e. battery problems), but their marketing, or at the very least the marketing done by Apple fanboys, is somewhat deceptive in making a lot of people think that they are these flawless machines on an OS that magically cures any problems some people have on a Windows machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I split this out of the CTDS thread. Let's not go off on tangents in threads guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Psssh, I mentioned the MBP and Wes ran with it. I always tried to bring it around to CTDS. I can tell you right now, a lot of the problems you think a Mac would solve, won't do any of the sort at all. Some of them aren't Apple's fault (i.e. battery problems), but their marketing, or at the very least the marketing done by Apple fanboys, is somewhat deceptive in making a lot of people think that they are these flawless machines on an OS that magically cures any problems some people have on a Windows machine. Please don't put words in my mouth. Did I ever claim it was flawless or that it would have zero problems? No I didn't. They're also redoing the logic board and casing, so at the very least chipping will probably not be an ongoing issue. As for overheating, we'll see, but I do have a laptop cooler for the purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 And I'm telling you as someone using a Mac and Windows that I have had roughly the same number of issues, if not more computer crashes (but no reformatting issue thankfully). I never even used this laptop for anything extreme - it's used exclusively for web-browsing, music listening, email, and chatting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Here's another question: how old is it? I didn't even pay attention to Macs before the Intel switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halt Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Errm. If I were to buy a macbook, it would be for on the go traveling/easy web dev. Macs are not my prefered use. Windows is better for games and such. Mac Programs like PS and what not They each have there Weak points, And Strong points. If you were to buy one, You have to think on what your uses will be for it as well. Some people run sites on Mac. Which i dont Reccomend at all, I would Reccomend Server 2008 and such. Mac, im not sure if they have web server options? All in All, it depends on what your uses will be to determine between Windows or Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Exclusive, high-quality programs which are heralded by amateurs, professionals, and people on this site alikeMuch less spyware crap Core audio (which makes computer music possible) I can't confirm all of Pez's list, but these three are spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The Pezman has shown me enough evidence to desire a MacBook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 My Macbook is nearing 2 years old - almost all of my problems cropped up at about 1 year in, and have been getting steadily worse. For its specs, I didn't expect it to have it so bad - I've never had any Windows laptop crap up this bad so quickly, let alone a desktop (2 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 2 GB of RAM, 80 GB hard drive). It came with Tiger, but I bought & installed Leopard when it came out primarily for the backup feature, although it did improve the OS usage immensely. The 4 workspaces idea taken from Linux really helps for me, since the screen gets too cluttered easily, and the Time Machine backup feature is useful if any future problem crops up, although I seem to recall Windows having had a similar feature for much longer. One of the main extra problems that will probably come up for you in regular usage is slower programs - I find that a lot of programs are still buggy with the x86 OS X, and in daily usage I have at least one program crash on me every day, with a good amount of time involving something I've been working on and can't recover. I don't think things will be fleshed out for another several years with programs when virtually all of the Mac userbase runs on Intel Macs. And lastly, the specs don't nearly match the bang for the buck from what I've seen compared to Windows OEM laptop vendors. Being the sole manufacturer of the hardware, Apple gets to control its pricing, and it charges arm and leg for its higher end computers (Macbook Pro & Mac Pro). I'm still miffed that my brother spent less on his computer than mine, and it ran better and longer. If you have to do music production on a laptop, then I guess you don't really have a choice, but a desktop can accomplish so much more with so much less money. Most people I know don't absolutely need the portability (in most cases of those who claim to prefer laptops, it tends to be excuses to have a computer around) and spending the premium for a laptop doesn't make financial sense, but I don't profess to know your situation. If you really want a Mac, why not buy an iMac? The screen is much nicer and bigger, the specs are better, and you get all of the same benefits sans portability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I've had the opposite experience to Bahamut. My macbook pro barely ever crashes. It runs SO much faster then my mates laptop which has the same specs but with vista. Logic Pro works like a dream, the only problem sometimes being a need for more ram, which I'm sure I could get done anyway. Don't get me wrong, its not perfect by any means, but for general use and music production, I find it incredible, which it should be for the price I paid. Of course if you want gaming, windows kicks its ass, but with the wonders of bootcamp I can do that too. I can run COD4/UT3 at full specs even when its installed on an external drive. And here's the kicker, it has never crashed in a computer game. I would suggest that you take out some long term cover for it though, as I have heard a few macbook horror stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halt Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I've had the opposite experience to Bahamut.My macbook pro barely ever crashes. It runs SO much faster then my mates laptop which has the same specs but with vista. Logic Pro works like a dream, the only problem sometimes being a need for more ram, which I'm sure I could get done anyway. Don't get me wrong, its not perfect by any means, but for general use and music production, I find it incredible, which it should be for the price I paid. Of course if you want gaming, windows kicks its ass, but with the wonders of bootcamp I can do that too. I can run COD4/UT3 at full specs even when its installed on an external drive. And here's the kicker, it has never crashed in a computer game. I would suggest that you take out some long term cover for it though, as I have heard a few macbook horror stories. The reason yours runs so much faster is because hes running on Vista. Vista = Slow, Which by my standards is bad, and vista also takes up bout 30% of RAM. Which is a downer to us Windows users. ;[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiwalker Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Why would anyone use Apple hardware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halt Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Why would anyone use Apple hardware? For what there intended uses are, Small web design, Music, some PS, or Fireworks, ect Mac is great for apps. Not so great for games, or high-end Graphic uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMage Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I would not get a Macbook Pro. I would not get a Macbook Air. Also, Vista is only slow if you put it on hardware it's not intended for. I'm just going to go back to playing some good ol' DOS games on my Eee now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollgagh Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'm just going to go back to playing some good ol' DOS games on my Eee now. Concurred except replace Eee with Win98 machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 If you have to do music production on a laptop, then I guess you don't really have a choice, but a desktop can accomplish so much more with so much less money. Most people I know don't absolutely need the portability (in most cases of those who claim to prefer laptops, it tends to be excuses to have a computer around) and spending the premium for a laptop doesn't make financial sense, but I don't profess to know your situation. Fair enough, but now you do: I'm disgraphic, which means that writing legibly is difficult for me and takes more time than others. When taking notes, there's no way that works out. I didn't have a laptop through high school and it created a problem not only with legibility, but with organizing my notes come test time. Since using a laptop, things have been so much better. I can access, read and edit my notes at any time. And I didn't even know about OneNote! Now that I do, taking and organizing notes with ol' lappy should be even easier. The portability also allows me to try my hand at using the machine live: install Ableton, hook in a controller and I'm in business. The world may see something as soon as Otakon. Not to mention the fact that I don't have a car at school, so if I came home for a break it would be very difficult to bring my computer along. The reasons pile up. Finally, as for the specs, let's take a look: The most expensive iMac has a 3.06 GHz with 6 MB L2 Cache, 1920 x 1200 display, up to 1 TB HD, and an NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS with 512MB of GDDR3 memory. The current Macbook Pro specs are actually not indicative of the machine I'll have, as Apple is nearing a redesign, and I have been waiting patiently. But since I'm sure the new machine won't be wildly different, let's go through it anyway: 2.5/2.6 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 6MB shared L2 cache, $100 upgrade to 1920 x 1200 resolution with LED monitor (better colors, more battery life, more environmental), up to 300 GB HD, and NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 512MB of GDDR3 SDRAM. The MBP Processor has the same amount of L2 cache, and I seriously doubt a difference of .4 GHz is going to make a significant difference in my computing life. Much less hard drive space, but I intend to get an external hard drive. Yes, it's probably more expensive than the one I could choose for the iMac, but not by much and it affords me up to an extra 250 GB of space (the internal drive in the laptop). The video card appears to be the only appreciable difference, but unfortunately that is not something you can get around in a laptop. So I may have a worse card, but I don't even know by how much. As Fishy has said and I've seen from my in-person friends, games run pretty smoothly. As for the price, I don't know what goes into making these guys, so I can't comment on whether it's reasonable. Believe me, I'd rather not spend around $3000 for a quality laptop, but with the experience I had with this clunker I'm typing on, plus the way Microsoft has been bungling things in general lately and Apple has been getting so much right, I can't help but feel I have to switch teams. I never intend to purchase a Mac Desktop because of its hardware restrictions. At some point in the future, when I'm living in a single place for the long term, I'd like to build an uber PC rig, but that's not going to be in the cards for several years. I'm just going to go back to playing some good ol' DOS games on my Eee now. Can't live in 1988, dude. I need a machine with some muscle. And oh god the Air is ridiculous. The next time I need a computer that can fit inside a manila envelope I'll draw one (or rather, model one. Disgraphia and all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 Ah, so there really is a reason for preferring a laptop in this case. Fair enough then. You may end up waiting until September or October if the past two years ago of any indication to nab a new Macbook Pro model though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 $4000 for a laptop?? That's more than I paid for my CAR! You're paying over twice the price you would for a comparable Windows laptop, and you're gonna use Ableton, which is available on Windows anyway. Welp, whatever floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMage Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 For muscle Pez, I gots me a quad-core beast running an 8800GTX. Which I think I'm going to SLi at some point. Or maybe I'll just grab two 9800GX2s for QUAD SLI GOODNESS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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