OCR TF2: New Server forthcoming - new server IPs and other stuff

[Bahamut]

No, the trolling was for purposely being petty for self pleasure through giving lip just because I pointed out a gaping problem in strategy.

The griefing is for purposely choosing not to switch from scout when there were 3 scouts on Granary and it was clearly causing the team to get rolled badly - one pointed out that he was the best scout so that was fine, but I was prepared to kick the other two for not working out any changes (not banning). Considering this is called TEAM Fortress 2, I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

I'm far more level-headed about any of this moderation than most of you as I have almost 4 years of experience doing it, half of it at a former community that numbered over 100k people, and I always make sure to lay out exact reasons for any action on my part to remain consistent in general - unfair actions leave a bad taste in people's mouths who never had anything to do with the problem. Griefing is mentioned in the MOTD every time you log on though, and all my previous actions on prior griefing such as the older demo glitch abuse, demo sticky spawn camping, mic spamming, etc. were a warning, and if the person showed no clear intention to stop or a clear intention to flout the warning, a swift permaban. In this case, I gave ample warning even, and didn't even ban. Even initially when Atma chose to defy the clearly flawed strategy and gave a clear indication of mocking me, I just kicked, not permabanned, or even removed the reserve slot. He then came back on and joined the opposite team. The removal of the reserved slot and to be subsequent banning from the server is for continuing to ignore the crux of the situation and to bring irrelevancies into it.

Given my track record on dealing with problems on the server so far, he has gotten quite more chances than most do because I don't wish to be as harsh to reserved slot holders as they are regulars. However, Atma did not wish to play a team game and wanted to ruin the experience for the rest of the team, which probably would've ragequitted if the trend continued as always does with teams getting rolled that badly, all just to spite my constructive criticism of our class balance.

[Rambo]

I get extremely pissed off when people stack classes. Especially unnecessary classes for the situation, or a class I'm already playing. (because then I feel obligated to switch) And a lot of the time I ask, and then maybe yell at the worst player to switch. This is when I'm extremely frustrated. But all in all, it's just a game. And moreover it's just a PUB. You're gonna get a handful of people bad and good, new and veteran, having fun or being competitive. And that's the way a PUB is supposed to function. I'm sure Bahamut was just frustrated in this particular instance, and lost his cool. This happens to everyone. I'm sure he'll lift the ban tomorrow when things have calmed down.

To Bahamut,

if it's something you actually will actually never tolerate, you'd better make that ALOT more clear. We've had entire teams going the same class. Every class. Just having fun. And ALOT of cases where teams have had retarded amounts of the same class dragging people down. This isn't even close to being an isolated case in that respect. I suggest making a class limit in the server if you're serious about this, because it's almost impossible to regulate.

EDIT: I'm reading the posts that were made while I was typing this.

[Bahamut]

To Bahamut,

if it's something you actually will actually never tolerate, you'd better make that ALOT more clear. We've had entire teams going the same class. Every class. Just having fun. And ALOT of cases where teams have had retarded amounts of the same class dragging people down. This isn't even close to being an isolated case in that respect. I suggest making a class limit in the server if you're serious about this, because it's almost impossible to regulate.

The thing was, most of the people in all class teams agree to do it and that I have no problem with that - I even participate in it on occasion. But it was clear that most of the people on the team wanted to play a regular game in this instance from the way they played and from the classes the others chose, and here was an instance of 2 people dragging it down for the rest. One was silent about it, while the other chose to make an irrelevant complaint about it is the difference.

[atmuh]

No, the trolling was for purposely being petty for self pleasure through giving lip just because I pointed out a gaping problem in strategy.

i didnt say a thing until the end of the match and then switched teams

i wasnt laughing because we were doing bad i was trying to help

one pointed out that he was the best scout so that was fine, but I was prepared to kick the other two for not working out any changes (not banning).

[00:08:45] <Bahamut> I was ready to ban all 3 scouts

In this case, I gave ample warning even, and didn't even ban. Even initially when Atma chose to defy the clearly flawed strategy and gave a clear indication of mocking me, I just kicked, not permabanned, or even removed the reserve slot. He then came back on and joined the opposite team. The removal of the reserved slot and to be subsequent banning from the server is for continuing to ignore the crux of the situation and to bring irrelevancies into it.

that makes absolutely no sense i joined the other team because i could have fun there!

Given my track record on dealing with problems on the server so far, he has gotten quite more chances than most do because I don't wish to be as harsh to reserved slot holders as they are regulars. However, Atma did not wish to play a team game and wanted to ruin the experience for the rest of the team, which probably would've ragequitted if the trend continued as always does with teams getting rolled that badly, all just to spite my constructive criticism of our class balance.

or i just joined the other team because they were cool with me

and everyone was happy

also when the heck else have i almost gotten banned

[Zephyr]

On a lighter side, this made me laugh...

[00:09:21] <PosiBolt> Hey wes, is #ocrtf2 mentioned in the server info?

[00:09:29] <Bahamut> don't think so posi

[00:09:34] <PosiBolt> We should.

[00:09:49] <Bahamut> no, it's "I don't want 3 scouts when we're getting rolled due to nothing to hold them back"

[00:09:53] <PosiBolt> Get some more people this way, maybe get some more people interested in #ocremix while we're at it.

[00:09:58] <Bahamut> and then "but I want to be a scout waaaaaaaah"

[00:10:13] <garian> "getting rolled" as in you guys were defending, and had 3 scouts?

[00:10:19] <PosiBolt> Mention server and chat room info, and maybe a link to a page with instructions for IRC n00bs.

Serious discussion/argument going on, and posibolt is just chatting away... I lol'd

You may now continue the thread...

[Brushfire]

You gotta remeber that Atmuh likes to start out as a low pressure front. Then over time he will evolve into a dram hurricane that he personally derives pleasure from.

In short, Atmuh is just being Atmuh. It's kinda his thing to act immature.

I am in no way saying that what happend should be allowed however. If he was doing it with the sole purpose of making his team lose, then that is team griefing like Bahamut said.

The point is this: if you are playing a team based game, and are hurting the team dynamic, you Matt Watts will end up with a stapler in your eye!!

Edit: I had a pic to go with this to make the joke funnier, but it isn't working.

[Monobrow]

You don't think banning someone over a game is immature? :U

[Bahamut]

i didnt say a thing until the end of the match and then switched teams

i wasnt laughing because we were doing bad i was trying to help

And ignoring the balance like that was helping the team how?

[00:08:45] <Bahamut> I was ready to ban all 3 scouts

Ok, so I may have said that in IRC out of anger for your ineptitude to figure out the line of events, but in actuality I would've just kicked at first. colin did give a good reason for him to remain scout though, hence why I mentioned 2 in that post.

that makes absolutely no sense i joined the other team because i could have fun there!

That last sentence refers to your bringing it to IRC and pestering me with that bullshit you pulled and refuse to acknowledge.

or i just joined the other team because they were cool with me

and everyone was happy

And what does that have to do with what you did beforehand? Oh, I see, nothing. Irrelevant to the discussion. If you really wanted to disagree like that, you should've switched beforehand instead of giving lip. The fact that you didn't puts the blame squarely on you.

also when the heck else have i almost gotten banned

I was referring to this situation in comparison with how I deal with situations involving someone breaking the server rules. As mentioned in the post you're quoting from, I normally ban quickly after just one warning, not 2 or 3 or more. However, taking account of all of what has transpired in all of this, it surely is more worthy of a ban than some of the other things I have banned for.

If you want a second chance, I'm willing to give it, but keep in mind the server rules and why they're there. I have little tolerance for people stepping over the line or trying to test the boundaries I set with my actions as you see tonight.

Edit:

You don't think banning someone over a game is immature? :U

This would only be a ban from the game server, not related to the forums. In any case, does this validate not punishing someone for negative actions? That line of reasoning is greatly flawed.

[atmuh]

And ignoring the balance like that was helping the team how?

that is to say i was not griefing aka intentionally sucking balls and loling about it

i was simply practicing my scout which i have been doing and i have heard nothing but positive things about until i forgot that i never join your team

the fact that i switched to the other team shows that i was willing to finally concede if id have stayed after saying stop whining now thats griefing

and you should know by now i cant leave without throwin in my two cents

[Bahamut]

that is to say i was not griefing aka intentionally sucking balls and loling about it

i was simply practicing my scout which i have been doing and i have heard nothing but positive things about until i forgot that i never join your team

It was intentional, but just with a different purpose. You consciously and purposely chose not to switch. That makes it intentional. I never said you did it with the paramount intention for the team to lose, but that it was a clear consequence that you just chose not to think about.

[atmuh]

the only one constantly saying things was you so this is basically a case of play the game as i wanna play it or gtfo

usual baha fun not allowed rule

[Rambo]

Guys this topic has worn a little thin. Not to say stop discussing it, but If it's opinion cases and not server related, take it to PMs.

[Bahamut]

the only one constantly saying things was you so this is basically a case of play the game as i wanna play it or gtfo

usual baha fun not allowed rule

More like you wanted to ruin everyone else's fun. Sorry but the only one on the team that agreed with you was you - everyone else was silent about it and focusing on doing what they could or they affirmed what I said.

[atmuh]

so you assume that the silence means that they are definitely supporting you?

thats a little silly come on

[duckyboycantfly]

[Rambo]

Holy crap, ducky joined other forums!!

[Bahamut]

Too bad I'm gonna stop with this right now .

I gave my final comment on resolution on the issue a few posts back. I'm not going to say anymore because I laid out a crystal clear explanation, filled with sentences that cut to the heart of the issue, not bringing in an irrelevant aspect to the argument that would detract from the point. It would be worthwhile to continue it if someone had a legitimate complaint with the specific line of argument, but nobody has brought up anything that addresses or is suggestive of what would be wrong with anything in this reasoning, so any productive discussion on this is dead and will be modded out of the thread.

As for map rotation, what did people think about the rotation tonight? To recap it:

cp_dustbowl

cp_well

pl_goldrush

ctf_2fort

tc_hydro

cp_dustbowl

ctf_turbine

cp_gravelpit

[Sensai]

/settles in to read the thread that has come down to a whole bunch of fighting

Look what TF2 is doing to us!!

/reads

[Edit:]

Done reading, but apparently the conversation is closed. If no one objects, I'd still like to give my two cents:

I think that this was just blown outta proportion. I think that Bahamut was a little upset that the team was losing when they should've been winning (something I can totally sympathize with) and there's Atmuh, playing a class that coincidentally has 2 other people already playing it. I think that Bahamut kind of went off the deep end a little because Atmuh is...well, Atmuh (voting for gravity and friendly fire all the time, haha) and it just escalated.

I'm hoping that people sleep on it and wake up to some great epiphany.

Also: I like that rotation, as I'm pretty sure that it was the one I made! I'm happy!

[Xerol Oplan]

Yeah it's all just too much bullshit and no one will even let me play without constantly riding me about every stupid thing i do that's 100% outside of my control so i'll just ifnd other servers

[atmuh]

I think that Bahamut kind of went off the deep end a little because Atmuh is...well, Atmuh (voting for gravity and friendly fire all the time, haha) and it just escalated.

aw come on i only did gravity twice!

and xerol in all seriousness (ok everyone sit down im going to be serious) the thing is you do a lot of typetalking very similar to your irc style (which usually boils down to whatever is going on on your computer with it breaking all the time and stuff) and really no one wants to hear that stuff so people like me will say to stop stop stop

youll notice when you yell at a sniper or about coming so close to a medpack i never say anything because everyone gets angry about that stuff and voices that anger

i mean if youre gonna type irrelevant stuff at least make it amusing like me so people dont get mad at you but instead laugh and whatnot

and as far as yelling about classes and stuff im almost never serious when telling you (AND ONLY YOU SO IM SERIOUS WHEN I YELL AT THE REST OF YOU) that youre awful because youre xerol!

if youd like me to stop doing that i (probably for the most part) will but dont take me seriously about that stuff

i honestly have no idea if youre good or not (except i know im a better sniper than you which means youre probably pretty bad)

[Dhsu]

Yeah, don't take the jabs so seriously. It won't get better on other servers, and at least here you know we're kidding half the time.

[Bahamut]

Xerol plays on a not so great comp - I've seen him try to play on his laptop at zircon's place during the Philly meetup, and wow that was terrible. I know the desktop isn't as bad, but I don't blame him for dying cause of that - I actually get happy when I see that Xerol kills someone, especially me, cause it shows that he tries to do what he can despite the computer and/or internet connection.

Yeah, don't take the jabs so seriously. It won't get better on other servers, and at least here you know we're kidding half the time.

Yeah, it's always far worse with random gamers. Some people are far more ascerbic in their complaints than any you see on the OCR server, and it's more regular. The only other server I consistently have enjoyed playing on is the Evil Avatar server (run by LiquidRain, the one who runs the Rainwave stream), but that's because I post on the forums there sometimes so it's not as random. When I get back to my apartment at school I want to be playing on there a little more often (maybe once a week or something like that) just to play with some others on another community.

[Rambo]

Yeah, don't take the jabs so seriously. It won't get better on other servers, and at least here you know we're kidding half the time.

If you don't play TF2 tomorrow night, I will delete all your songs off my MP3 player.

And add them back later.

[Brushfire]

Great big Lulz!!

[Effef]

loldrama

You guys are like a butch lesbain couple: All of the bitching, none of the sex.