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Ban engineers from Hydro and you'll see what a great map it'll become!

I'm honestly starting to think that Engineers make this game less fun.

No offense to you guys that play Engy, and one isn't all that bad...but when the best defense for a certain type of map (payload, that is) is to just have as many Engineers as possible, something's broken.

Badwater, even though I love it so, is particularly bad about this.

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I'm honestly starting to think that Engineers make this game less fun.

No offense to you guys that play Engy, and one isn't all that bad...but when the best defense for a certain type of map (payload, that is) is to just have as many Engineers as possible, something's broken.

Badwater, even though I love it so, is particularly bad about this.

The worst example I can think of is on dustbowl, where on the second stage, second cap, there would be 4-5 engineers...it made things massively frustrating.

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I think engineers are a critical problem on hydro. Seeing as you only have to focus on defending a SINGLE point, it's really easy for mass engie overkill to succesfully defend it from all but the best coordinated teams. This is different from Capture Point maps like dustbowl, because the roles there are at least clearly defined, so blue will always be attacking with it's entire team rather than having to worry about defending their own point as well.

It's also different from Control Point maps like Granary, because the 'frontline' will generally be very dynamic due to the multiple CPs so it's rare that an engie will be able to set up any permanent position. I think the addition of a central control point to each of the 'sub-maps' of Hydro would force engies to move around rather than turtle. Outright banning the use of engies on TC maps would help too I guess.

In fact, wouldn't it be possible to test out hydro with a class limit on engies?

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I could technically put a class limit on engies for hydro - do people want that?

No. This game really is incredibly balanced. Too many engineers. A run with a half decent spy and and uber with a demo (hell, just regular fucking demo/soldierspam can take out half of 'em) should be able to at least cripple them.

If you bitch about coordinating pubs, that is compley wrong, since all it should take 3-4 people (and we usually have 3-4 regulars per team, at least) to take down 3-4 sentries.

And I agree completely with bleck. Sentry farming is necessary on dustbowl, since a single uber could easily wipe out 1-2 sentries. Just think how many times blu one with just a single uber + push, even when you did have 4-5 engies (that is a lot btw).

The trick is to aim for the dispensors. If you aim for the sentries, then you are stupid and deserve to lose.

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Late to the party, but I don't think any plugin is worth abandoning the freedom to mute players. Besides myself being one of the players most needed to be muted, I also know of many other people and instances that warrant frequent mutes.

It's too bad because the team-talk button is a cool idea, but this is a fatal flaw. Having a team-talk day would be a better option, IMO, but I appreciate all the work and discussion that went into this issue.

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Feels like every other post is me, but...

Did the plugin break or something? It either isn't working (and giving me shit about how 'voiceall' isn't a command or something) or my game/computer has decided to rebel and is limiting my ability to talk to the outside world.

...or, y'know, my team.

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Ok, so in an hour and a half, I begin my 17 hour journey to Dallas.

Also, if anyone wants to mute me in game, feel free. I do know that I can get a bit annoying with my gibberish screaming when I am ubered. Or Ubering. Or seeing someone get Ubered. Or running away from an ubered enemy.

Oh well.

Catch ya'll in a few d00ds.

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I am currently in a Yahoo! Internet cafe in Narita international airport. In just 2 hours I will on my plane to Los Angeles. Good times.

Patches are in a duffel bag that is currently being shipped to my Grandparents house. Once it arrives They will be sent out,

Also Zeph!! What is the status of the flag Zeph!! What is the status of the flag raw d00d?

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No. This game really is incredibly balanced. Too many engineers. A run with a half decent spy and and uber with a demo (hell, just regular fucking demo/soldierspam can take out half of 'em) should be able to at least cripple them.

If you bitch about coordinating pubs, that is compley wrong, since all it should take 3-4 people (and we usually have 3-4 regulars per team, at least) to take down 3-4 sentries.

And I agree completely with bleck. Sentry farming is necessary on dustbowl, since a single uber could easily wipe out 1-2 sentries. Just think how many times blu one with just a single uber + push, even when you did have 4-5 engies (that is a lot btw).

The trick is to aim for the dispensors. If you aim for the sentries, then you are stupid and deserve to lose.

I have to agree with all of this. Not to mention that the Huntsman is also an effective counter for sentries now. Two full charge arrows usually takes out a level 3, so as long as you can stay out of range or have a medic healing you you can make short work of engineers and their sentries. Throw a soldier or demoman into the mix and no amount of engineers are safe.

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Huh, the Source SDK has a new version that, for whatever reason, contains the source to 10 TF2 maps:

arena_lumberyard

arena_ravine

cp_badlands

cp_dustbowl

cp_granary

cp_gravelpit

ctf_2fort

pl_badwater

pl_goldrush

tc_hydro

Granted, most of these have decompiled versions, but those won't be necessary any more.

No Well though. Aw, I wanted to make a pl_well. :(

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