SoulinEther Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 irl they call it ad hominem OMG THIS MAN KNOWS ABOUT AD HOMINEM ARGUMENTS! I miss debate. But we weren't really allowed to use them, they're sort of.. uhm, transparent, unless you're an idiot. And those judges weren't idiots And I wouldn't say anyone is using an ad hominem argument against you. And if they are, I'm not seeing that its their sole argument, so... it's not as though it is out of desperation. Has this thread really gone on for 3 pages about whether or not it makes sense to put up the old, holed, but rosy-retrospectively gold code for a website? Fascinating... I don't have much to say on this matter, but if the third remake of my website's code is taking too long to release, and no other version available is better, I would spend some time on making a safe/decent backup website, perhaps that is of high security minimal elegance but decent minimal functionality, so as to prevent complaints such as the ones in this thread, and to really disasterproof the site.... but that's such a bummer, not being able to complete one task before starting another - stuff like passion and motivation, will to act, etc can all be squandered doing such busywork. In summary: patience, especially when the goods and services expected to be delivered are free... If the issue is just about locating a particular song, or in finding a new song, then a simple approach would be to just implement a couple really simple lists of all the songs available on the site, one sorted by remixer, another by date of posting, and song title, whatever - on the current site. It isn't that hard to do... I could probably do it, even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustin Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Isn't it really just an issue of money? Couldn't people pay for the site to be created by reputable coders and make it work? Not saying I have all the money to throw at it. Just asking if that's a hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulinEther Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Isn't it really just an issue of money? Couldn't people pay for the site to be created by reputable coders and make it work?Not saying I have all the money to throw at it. Just asking if that's a hold up. Well, that could always be an option, as long as the code is well-documented. Otherwise, it would be the same deal - if it gets borked, you'd have to call up the coders to fix it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I've been wondering recently whether SOME of what people like about VGMix (that they don't get with OCR in its current form) couldn't be done here... perhaps a grand reunification of what amounts to two separate communities at the moment isn't feasible or is too MLK JR. "I have a dream"-ish to actually work, but it's nevertheless something I've thought about - whether some of the openness of VGMix couldn't be added to OCR without sacrificing the spirit of our standards one iota. I suppose I envision this as being possible through a reworking/expansion of the WIP forums, with attachment hosting and some means of associating posts there with game records in our database. The risk/downside would be that such WIPs would sorta be "second-class citizens" compared to actual submitted/evaluated OC ReMixes, but it would allow for instant gratification and more exposure for mixes that didn't fit our definition/standards. Nothing more than an idea, and perhaps not even a good one, but either way I want to improve our WIP forums with more features and get more exposure/feedback for artists there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulinEther Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Nothing more than an idea, and perhaps not even a good one, but either way I want to improve our WIP forums with more features and get more exposure/feedback for artists there... I take it Larry discussed what Rozovian brought up to him with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Recognizing patterns and drawing logical conclusions from those patterns isn't "knowing everything." It's using intelligence to make sound decisions. 'he has done it before and therefore he will do it again because he does not like us' is not a pattern nor is it a logical conclusion Nothing more than an idea, and perhaps not even a good one, but either way I want to improve our WIP forums with more features and get more exposure/feedback for artists there... well seeing as though everyone seems to be dead set on never having vgmix again I am sure many people would enjoy of implementation of this idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Hey guys. You might remember me from vgmix2, or from my remix here. Some forum regulars had a meeting last night about the state of vgmix. You must understand there is a lot going on in the background. I'm hoping zyko will pop in here to explain better or give better words of encouragement, but I just happened to come here and saw this thread. What vgmix stands for is NOT a WIP board for OCR. The artists who "started" at vgmix learn a lot of valuable information and make good music often. A community-driven system of reviews and helpfulness is the perfect compliment to this site. In case you didn't notice, not only were most of the really good vgmix arrangements eventually posted here, there were hundreds of really good ones NOT posted, either failing the panel or just not submitted. VGMix should slake the communities hunger for new music. Yes we had some newbie JUNK but still, it was obvious with reviews. Furthermore, there is still a prevalent attitude that vgmix IS the WIP place for anyone who WANTS to post to OCR, which is just ridiculous. The casual disdain for the site from most members here could almost be a reason that the vgmix community is dying itself. Anyway, some of us have a serious passion about what vgmix is and could be. If we can help it, vgmix3 WILL eventually become a reality. Please, keep yourself informed at the thread about it (http://www.vgmix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1213) and pop into the #future channel of irc.vgmix.com to see if we are around. Look for some information and other stuff soon, especially from zyko as he is kind of the liaison between OCR and VGMix. tl;dr: we are working actively on vgmix's future, so keep watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I popped into the vgmix irc channel once and was basically flamed out of there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 well at the #future channel that won't be happening. No one talks in the main #vgmix channel anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 oh awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doulifée Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 finition/standards.Nothing more than an idea, and perhaps not even a good one, but either way I want to improve our WIP forums with more features and get more exposure/feedback for artists there... Merging that's idea with the blog one? like mixer being able to host a limited amount of WIP? So you can found them via their forum/ocr profile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 'he has done it before and therefore he will do it again because he does not like us' is not a pattern nor is it a logical conclusion 'He did it once and we took it down, then he did it again, and we took it down again, and then he did it again after we put it back up, so we had to take it down again, but then he etc.' That's a pattern. It's logical to assume that if a vulnerable site is put back up, it will get attacked again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Merging that's idea with the blog one? like mixer being able to host a limited amount of WIP? So you can found them via their forum/ocr profile? Yeah, totally. Nothing's set in stone yet, but I'm definitely interested in making more resources available to mixers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coop Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I've been wondering recently whether SOME of what people like about VGMix (that they don't get with OCR in its current form) couldn't be done here... perhaps a grand reunification of what amounts to two separate communities at the moment isn't feasible or is too MLK JR. "I have a dream"-ish to actually work, but it's nevertheless something I've thought about - whether some of the openness of VGMix couldn't be added to OCR without sacrificing the spirit of our standards one iota.I suppose I envision this as being possible through a reworking/expansion of the WIP forums, with attachment hosting and some means of associating posts there with game records in our database. The risk/downside would be that such WIPs would sorta be "second-class citizens" compared to actual submitted/evaluated OC ReMixes, but it would allow for instant gratification and more exposure for mixes that didn't fit our definition/standards. Nothing more than an idea, and perhaps not even a good one, but either way I want to improve our WIP forums with more features and get more exposure/feedback for artists there... I don't think it's a bad idea, but it could easily come across as stepping on VGMix's toes. The idea that VGMix is where anyone can post a finished remix, is one of the main differences between these two sites. If OCR shifts a bit so that there's a similar ability on a lessened scale, I'm not sure how that's going to be perceived by the folks who run VGMix. Yes, people around here will likely be excited and take advantage of the new set up, but I can't help but think it's going to come across to others as an attempt to hurt VGMix by taking away what's considered to be one of its biggest advantages. I'm not suggesting that you dump the idea altogether, but I am saying that if you move forward with it, be careful how you do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumUltimA Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I hope to see the day where VGMix will unban me from the forums! I got blacklisted during the Great DragonArmy Exploit of '08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 The casual disdain for the site from most members here could almost be a reason that the vgmix community is dying itself. That was 6 years ago. As far as staff goes, there's been none of that, and I've never seen that on the boards or in IRC. Where are you getting that from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 That was 6 years ago. so was vgmix hahahahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramaniscence Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I think the WIP forums would need a MAJOR overhaul before it could be any kind of viable service similar to VGMix. The forum showcases MAYBE 5 mixes on the front page, which I'm sure would be changed, but how long would you display songs on the front page? What would determine how they actually STAY on the front page? (right now it's per-reply, and that hardly seems like a fair system). Even so, having a link to the forums on the main page helps a lot, is it REALLY better than having it on (an ideal) VGMix system? Would it actually get a good amount of exposure? Who knows. This is completely ignoring the fact that right now trying to find something in the WIP/Completed forum is an absolute nightmare. Back during the original forum reform, I offered up a solution of a sort of "standard" for posting in the WIP forum that would make it a lot easier to at least READ, and I remember Darkesword agreeing, I don't remember anyone else even responding, and nothing has happened since. BUT I think what's MOST important here...is freedom. I think the real reason VGMix exists is because artists want to have more freedom with their music. Freedom to do whatever they want with their music. Even if OCR had a similar system integrated, I feel like people would post on VGMix still...because they can. No offense to DJP, but a lot of times things at OCR come off as "Well this is my website, and I'm going to run it the way that I want it, no matter what anyone else says" which may or may not be the case, and it's totally JUSTIFIABLE because it IS his website, but that in itself just makes people want to have more control of their songs. That being said, it seems like it'd be LESS of a "community divided" issue, so much as it is a FREEDOM OF CHOICE. Isn't that the real reason VGMix was made in the first place? Because people wanting more control over their music (and a bunch of other stuff, I know)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 That was 6 years ago. As far as staff goes, there's been none of that, and I've never seen that on the boards or in IRC. Where are you getting that from? Well I don't come here often, but during the times I have seen vgmix mentioned it seemed some members had a dim view of vgmix, though I don't know if it was their own feelings or from "hearing about it" from others. I'm not saying the staff here trashes vgmix all the time. It's more of a holdover from the past. A lot of younger members know something went on that wasn't pretty, and some assume there is still issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustin Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 ...but I can't help but think it's going to come across to others as an attempt to hurt VGMix... You can't hurt something that's not there! I like the idea of changing the WIP section and mixing it with the blog idea. That's a good one. I'd keep a blog here with all of my arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Well I don't come here often, but during the times I have seen vgmix mentioned it seemed some members had a dim view of vgmix, though I don't know if it was their own feelings or from "hearing about it" from others.I'm not saying the staff here trashes vgmix all the time. It's more of a holdover from the past. A lot of younger members know something went on that wasn't pretty, and some assume there is still issues. People like controversy, and if none-exists, they pretend it does because they're bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wingless Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 People like controversy, and if none-exists, they pretend it does because they're bored. All of Darkesword's remixes sound like TheWingless-lite aaaaaaaaaaaand now the ball is rolling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coop Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 You can't hurt something that's not there! Oh but it is. VGMix is sitting there, waiting for someone to organize it better, and make it so that people know when the newest releases are uploaded. The problem is, those who were working on it became busy with other things, and VGMix has fallen by the wayside for the most part as a result. It's hasn't vanished, or been hacked from existence. It's still very much there. It just needs some programming love to fix a few major issues that are keeping it from working better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 VGMix is sitting there, waiting for someone to organize it better, and make it so that people know when the newest releases are uploaded. Exactly...and that's exactly our goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moguta Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I don't think it's a bad idea, but it could easily come across as stepping on VGMix's toes. The idea that VGMix is where anyone can post a finished remix, is one of the main differences between these two sites. If OCR shifts a bit so that there's a similar ability on a lessened scale, I'm not sure how that's going to be perceived by the folks who run VGMix. Yes, people around here will likely be excited and take advantage of the new set up, but I can't help but think it's going to come across to others as an attempt to hurt VGMix by taking away what's considered to be one of its biggest advantages.I'm not suggesting that you dump the idea altogether, but I am saying that if you move forward with it, be careful how you do so. Should OC ReMix really be so very concerned about how another website views its own attempts at improvement? A better WIP system would hardly be an attack on VGMix. As you mention, VGMix would still be the only site where all finished remixes are automatically posted. And if somehow the VGMix community is offended, I think that has more to say about their sensitivity than any insensitivity on OCR's part. They've had years to implement their vision. Do they really expect another site to hold itself back because it might look like it's moving ever slightly toward the vision of an inactive website? I, for one, look eagerly forward to any improvements in the OCR WIP process. EDIT: And for clarification, I should also mention I still hold hope for a finished VGMix 3. I was a huge fan of VGMix 2 until the day it was hacked to pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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