Your Gaming Degrees ARE WORTHLESS!!!

[EdgeCrusher]

Just about everyone I know that did computer or gaming courses in college are seriously fucked now. Im glad I didn't go with them when I got out of high school.

[Strike911]

Med-school, law-school

the only viable degrees? Oh please. I know plenty of med/law students that consistently tell me that those fields are especially becoming more difficult to get into UNLESS you go into business for yourself privately. I think this is the same with the games industry honestly... that's what I'm planning to do currently.

Trade schools. They're almost always behind the curve, and the advertisements on TV alone should make you understand how ridiculous some are. If they show two idiots playing video games on a couch saying "I can't believe we're getting paid to play games" then they initially have an incorrect view of the industry. I'm sure people have got jobs before from them but I doubt it's common. .001%?

I'm in the middle of a game-design program at my university. Honestly though, my plans are heavily bringing the business side of things into the mix. I don't plan on using my degree for long-term employment at some company, as I intend on opening up my own company/dev team, running the business, developing the profitability of the team. My degree has less to do with landing a job for the long-term, and more to do with learning the systems and tools so that I can administrate them. Again, I'm focusing my future on business administration in the gaming industry as well as focusing on a director/producer role. In my experience getting a 4-year degree will legitimize you when trying to get jobs in the industry. I haven't seen any job opportunities in the games industry, for actually making the game (IE not testers or interns), that didn't require a 4-year degree and a portfolio of completed work. Sure you can focus your skills in school, but you NEED the portfolio of work. School's a great way to fill up your portfolio but again, it doesn't guarantee anything especially in popular fields like 3D modeling, animating, etc., etc. 3D modelers are a dime a dozen. Just like regular old aspring artists and musicians.

What a good university IS good for though is networking. I'm told that we have Gearbox execs (guys that did Brothers in Arms) swing by our university to see what students are doing since they're in close proximity to us. I've also heard things about Id as well, although not nearly as much. I know most of the professors are in contact with people working in the industry in reputable gaming companies, contract animation companies, and such.

Anyway, the real issue I think isn't so much the game degree; it is the naive idea that "OH! VIDEO GAMES! MAKING THEM WILL BE FUN!" when they're unaware of the work required. It feels like 90% of the kids in all of the courses I've been taking are the lazy-slacker-typical-fanboy-gamer types that want to "OMG MAKe GaMEZ!" In all of my courses none of these kids take anything serious. Not the classes, not the work, none of it. I think it's a misconception with the industry and it draws in a lot of people that aren't cut out for it that EXPECT to get jobs with their "good game ideas." There are a place for good game ideas, but just in case you missed the memo, game developers already have game ideas before you start trying to get into the industry. They don't need yours unless you're absolutely groundbreaking, AND even then there are even fewer teams that are willing to take those kinds of risks with new games.

I think the real issue in hiring is the TYPE of naive person that typically goes after a 4-year gaming degree, not necessarily the degree itself. In my experience most of them were completely naive about EVERYTHING. I feel like only 10% of my peers are actually cutout for the industry. I agree with the article in that you need to diversify your skill set in regular, traditional majors, but a good game dev program can really help your portfolio, help you network, and get some experience. As with all things it's all about who you know if you're seeking employment.

In my case I'm really taking a look at those business courses too. I've had an avid interest in business since I was a young... and I love games, so combining knowledge of both will hopefully prepare me for my future, and as a safety net I've developed enough skills to get into other avenues for a job with my eventual uni degree.

/end wall of text

[Dunnowhathuh]

Can't say I've ever heard of a degree specialising in gaming here in Oz (or at least around Sydney metro). Lemmie double check that....nope, nothing. One of the things a person should ALWAYS do if they want to go into tertiary education is research the degree they want. That should honestly be university/college 101.

I dunno how the education system works in the other parts of the world but all of the universities here let you transfer out of a degree pretty much at any time. So if the degree you're in is going to screw you over, you can transfer out (provided you have the marks to do so). I did that in my second year. Was doin a forensics degree but heard that getting jobs in the field was a bitch so I transferred out. If any of you are in a specialised gaming degree and are really worried, I'd suggest doing the same if your place of educational facility allows it. The best thing is, you can transfer to a generalised computer degree instead and you'd probably get exemptions for some subjects meaning you don't have to start your degree from zero.

One last thing, it's imperative that whilst you're in tertiary education, network with people in the business of the degree you're in and hopefully they can help find you some work. A good chunk of the people I know did that and now have graduate jobs. Also, if your place holds careers nights, GO TO THEM.

[The wingless]

Oh, interesting side note:

As you are no doubt aware, the Game's Industry is unbelievably tumultuous in terms of your employment. Through absolutely no fault of your own, you can be let go. Let me repeat that, because it bears repeating: your job is on loan.

Having said that, having such a specialized, inflexible degree such as Game Design is a crippling disservice to you. All you can do is go into a game-related field. So if nobody in the Industry is hiring, why kind sir or madam, you are shit out of luck. But if you have a degree in, oh lets say, graphic design, you could go into a design firm, work on film/tv, freelance, etc.

So since your degree is all but a formality in the eyes of The Industry, you might as well make it something you can parley into other fields.

Goddamn, I'm smug today. Look at all you high school posers wishing you could be my intern's intern.

[Hobocop]

I'm rather programming illiterate, yet want to work in the industry somehow. So... I wrote several academic papers on the industry during my BA, and used one of them to get accepted into a Communication MA program. My hope is that I can weasel my way through the corporate ladder of an organization that deals with games in one aspect or another, or to use the next two years of my MA program as a sort of pre-study for Law. I will then utilize what I learn in this and transfer it to my law courses. I might want to be a video game lawyer specializing in patenting, copyrights, intellectual property etc. And if you think this is unprecedented, you're wrong. Anyway, the point in me saying this is that there are many options available for working in the industry, and a game design degree may end up being trivial in a continuously evolving post-fordist electronics industry. Each year, these degrees can only hope to teach a skeleton of what will be required in only a few years time after you obtain the degree, and as a few of my friends found out the hard way, there is absolutely no job security. Maybe look towards newly emerging fields withing the games industry; for example, there is much talk that as the industry keeps growing, and game budgets begin to reach parity with major motion pictures, newer subdivisions of work (such as authoring video game narratives) will be more in-demand.

[sgx]

Any arts-related job is highly dependent on your portfolio. You have to prove to people that you are able to do good creative work, and a degree and a GPA does not do that. It just shows that you know how to win school. You probably don't want a BAD GPA because then you kind of look like an irrisponsible bum and it reflects somewhat poorly on your percieved character or work ethic, but as long as it is respectable, employers won't read into it at all.

Experience and portfolio is the key. Even if you are in a school for something and you have projects that relate to your field, do more on your own.

[Steffan Andrews]

Can't stress enough also that networking and connections make a massive difference. It not only can, but will, make or break your career in any arts field.

[SoulinEther]

...patenting, copyrights, intellectual property etc...

This makes me want to pull up essays by Richard Stallman on the matters of "intellectual property"...

(crap, late night trolling, no good)

[Monobrow]

There are some sick sick non-sequitur individuals in this thread...

First thing, portfolio matters the most. Make it stellar, most of the people I went to school with ended up redoing their portfolio after college, because they realized that their college portfolio wasn't good enough. Make it good, and you have a much better chance.

On gaming design: I think it's awful that most of my friends who went to college and graduated in the same school as I, that specifically majored in gaming design, have ended up having it so rough. It's a relatively new degree, and when it was introduced I remember a lot of professors all but outright telling us it wasn't a very smart idea to enroll (and I remember a few kids who wanted to switch from media arts and animation, or graphic design, to gaming design, and were thankfully given the good advice of not to)

Right now a lot of graduates from media arts fields have it rough, but it just sucks worse for the gaming design people, because I know that many feel that they wasted all this money because it was a private trade school, and haven't found any jobs to pay off their HUGE student loans, and they got such a specialized degree that they really didn't learn much else.

I mean yeah, a lot of my friends from this school have still had a lot of trouble with less specialized, more generally accepted degrees. and still haven't found a steady job yet and have moved from one freelance job to another, or have been recruited only to have been layed off as their company was downsizing, or going bankrupt, etc... Some have been moderately successful, but others I know have had a career full of failed projects or on the side jobs, which was nothing that was promised to them when they enrolled, and this is partially due to the HUGE influx of kids who want a career in these "dream fields". Competition is way rough.

But yeah, out of all of those majors I'd have to say that gaming design kids have probably suffered the worst, or have just had to try somehow to get a job in another fieid, or have gone back to school to study in something else, or have gotten that "dream job" and have discovered that it was nothing like they imagined.

This is a pretty pessimistic view on all of this, but IMO if you want to do anything today, you need to have a realistic view on where you want to end up, what it will take to get there, and realize that it may not be what you planned, and that what these schools tell you is lined with grade-a bullshit. However all that aside, if you still want to do this, I say work for your goals despite it all, and do your best, give it your best shot, blah blah blah. That's what the people hiring in these fields want anyway, a tireless, optimistic, robo-worker that loves what they are doing no matter how weak their link in the chain is. They want you to be grateful for being there, and you SHOULD be, because there are hundreds of other kids that are waiting in line to replace you.

Anyway I have basically just echoed a lot of sentiments already given, just with more needless wordsz.

Can't stress enough also that networking and connections make a massive difference. It not only can, but will, make or break your career in any arts field.

TRUE DAT!!!

[TheSnowStorm]

Hmm . . . I do have RPG Maker 2003 on my computer. However, I don't think a simple program like RPG Maker '03 would look nice on my portfolio since there's no programming involve for that program.

I could do music for indie-type games and hell, just write music for my own personal pleasure. Would that look good?

Also, what about thinking in going into the following:

-English

-Communications

-Business Admin

-Music Theory and Writing

-Computer Science

Would the stated above help me if I do those first in community college? And will performing at for my church Music Team, would that look good or should I give up on that?

[Hector]

If you haven't even completed a year of college yet, you're asking this question far too early; unless of course you're going for something that requires you to start in your first year (engineering, pre-med). Unless there is some awesome program that catches your eye (unlikely at a community college) you should spend your first year figuring out what you are most drawn to or what professors you most like. Though having the right major can be very important, if you can't have dedication for your major than it will be reflected in your GPA and when you try to present yourself.

Also, as to the whole degree thing: a degree in itself is merely something to take pride in. It's the experience of college and the opportunity to learn things that are important. Having a degree in art doesn't help, but having the opportunity to train with people who dance or sing professionally (or used to) is definately worth something. Take the same approach towards these "gaming" degrees: ask what these people have done for the gaming industry or how they participate. A professor should be an active contributor to their field of knowledge, but I am a little uncertain if that would be the case for these gaming degrees.

[rem]

Hmm . . . I do have RPG Maker 2003 on my computer. However, I don't think a simple program like RPG Maker '03 would look nice on my portfolio since there's no programming involve for that program.

I could do music for indie-type games and hell, just write music for my own personal pleasure. Would that look good?

Also, what about thinking in going into the following:

-English

-Communications

-Business Admin

-Music Theory and Writing

-Computer Science

Would the stated above help me if I do those first in community college? And will performing at for my church Music Team, would that look good or should I give up on that?

Fuck are you serious? RPG Maker? C'mon man, c'mon.

Also it's comm college, the most you'll do is your GE's and then transfer to a 4-year where you'll eventually specialize in what you want. Unless you're just going straight through comm college which I don't suggest.

[beckett007]

First and foremost... RPG maker doesn't mean shit to us devs! Learn a substantial piece of software like Hammer, Radiant, or uEdit if you want to get into the game industry as a level designer.

I do have a masters degree from the Guildhall at SMU (http://guildhall.smu.edu/) so I'm a bit biased, but it definitely helped to jump start my career for sure. First things first.. GET A COLLEGE DEGREE NO MATTER WHAT! Doesnt matter what your degree is in, mine was in public administration (LOL!), and I'm the lead audio guy for a THQ company and about to go freelance as a composer. THQ would not have hired me without that degree though... gotta love workplace politics. Most game devs wont take you seriously without one. If you do go to a trade school after you graduate college... go somewhere that has a decent rep such as The Guildhall or Full Sail... "schools" like ITT and DeVry are sort of a joke.

Going to the Guildhall helped me out immensely. It helped me learn level editors, meet and talk with people in the game industry, gain experience, and most importantly... helped me get my foot in the door which is the main reason you would want to go to one of these schools... to meet contacts. To be blunt, it WAS NOT a worthless endeavor for me and without the guildhall I wouldn't have made it into the industry.

Those who said a company will take experience over a kid with a masters degree are in fact correct. Ironically you have to have experience to get more experience or get work in the game industry. However, thats not to say that a gaming degree wont help, cause it most certainly will.

Now to crush all of your hopes and dreams if you want to be a full time music or sound guy for a game company.

Game companies rarely (read: never) have a full time composing position so forget about that one. If you want to be a sound designer.. a degree from a trade school will help with that but you'll also need experience be it from Mod work or working on Indie projects. That, or you'll have to just get insanely lucky which does happen from time to time. If I was looking to hire another sound designer and I had two candidates.. one with an audio engineering degree from full sail and one with experience working on Far Cry 2 and/or Battlefield Bad Company with an undergraduate degree in knitting... I'd take the guy with experience. Sound jobs are the most rare and hardest to get in the game industry... everyone and their grandma wants to be a game composer or a sound designer. Honestly it ain't all that glamorous and you've got to not mind being behind the scenes, I've been working on GDDs and excel spreadsheets for the last month . If its fame, booze, and babes you want.. become a rock star and not a game composer / sound guy.

Rich

[TheSnowStorm]

First and foremost... RPG maker doesn't mean shit to us devs! Learn a substantial piece of software like Hammer, Radiant, or uEdit if you want to get into the game industry as a level designer.

Ha Ha! I knew I shouldn't use that program! To be honest, I don't like it because it doesn't get you into the true devoplment in game design.

First things first.. GET A COLLEGE DEGREE NO MATTER WHAT! Doesnt matter what your degree is in, mine was in public administration (LOL!), and I'm the lead audio guy for a THQ company and about to go freelance as a composer. THQ would not have hired me without that degree though... gotta love workplace politics. Most game devs wont take you seriously without one.

So, let's say I have a degree in Business Admin or Nursing, that wouldn't matter because I still have a degree and they would still hire me. However, experince is still needed, no matter what.

If you do go to a trade school after you graduate college... go somewhere that has a decent rep such as The Guildhall or Full Sail... "schools" like ITT and DeVry are sort of a joke.

I would never apply to ITT or DeVry because those are lying pieces of shit money pits. My mother wanted me to apply to thoese schools because they were cheap. Yeah mom, they're cheap for a reason. Don't say fuckin' shit about shit you don't know about or never reasearched about. Tellin' me to go to a school with a bad rep.

Leaving the ranting aside . . .

How do you feel about schools such as University of Advaning Technology or FullSail. Do those schools help you with networking?

Going to the Guildhall helped me out immensely. It helped me learn level editors, meet and talk with people in the game industry, gain experience, and most importantly... helped me get my foot in the door which is the main reason you would want to go to one of these schools... to meet contacts. To be blunt, it WAS NOT a worthless endeavor for me and without the guildhall I wouldn't have made it into the industry.

Networking, which I need badly. The more contacts I met, the more of a chance I could get a job.

So, game companies are rarely (never) looking for composers, huh?

Well, best I kill myself now and say goodbye to my dreams instead of being another nigger on the streets and becoming a number.

All irony aside, they're not even looking for part-time composers? Wow. I should really think about commiting sucide for beliving in such a stupid dream.

Fuck are you serious? RPG Maker? C'mon man, c'mon.

I was just jokin' about the RPG Maker shit. I know it's a P.O.S. and I shouldn't even think about putting in on my resume.

Also it's comm college, the most you'll do is your GE's and then transfer to a 4-year where you'll eventually specialize in what you want. Unless you're just going straight through comm college which I don't suggest.

I'm knocking my GE shit outta the way so I don't have to do it in a 4-year place. I ain't doing the whole deal through comm college.

Also, I'm asking this a bit early so I can have the infomation a bit early as well as contacts.

[DjSammyG]

i'm a theater major lawl

[Spunodi]

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/08/26/why-your-gaming-degree-may-be-a-waste-of-time

I know we have members here that have some knowledge of game design from their colleges and universities and I want their viewpoints as well. I wonder if going to an school such as FullSail, University of Advancing Technology, or DigiPen are worth it or is going to a traditional school and earning a major/minor in Computer Science or Interactive Media is the better route.

Yes, kinda.

I work at Blackpool and the Fylde College (UK) and we offer a FdSc. Game Design and Development course accredited by Lancaster University.

We have written the course with input from contacts at Rare and Microsoft amongst others and so have been mindful of industry perceptions and needs.

Having spoken myself to Nick Burton (who has a Computer Science degree) I understand the main perception of many of these courses is the "Jack of all trades, master of none" approach, of which David Braben is a very outspoken critic.

We have taken the approach of offering a foundation degree with a gaming focus to allow students to gain experience in both Design and Development along with vocational skills, yet understand this does not cover either in depth. Hence, progression from this course will be on to either a BSc. Interactive Media (currently being written) or a BSc. Computer Science - hence allowing students to specialise before graduation.

This seems to be the sensible approach and therefore students will graduate with specialist skills valuable to the industry plus also knowledge of the industry itself and the various disciplines.

Of course, a portfolio is the most desirable thing to a developer and our courses will give students the skills necessary to create one with sufficient competence.

Advert over, but please remember that some institutions do offer value and I am sure there are others, it is unfortunate that there are many "Jack of all trades, master of none" game degrees available which tarnish this.

The best course of action is investigation.

[Guy In Rubber Suit]

Hmm . . . I do have RPG Maker 2003 on my computer. However, I don't think a simple program like RPG Maker '03 would look nice on my portfolio since there's no programming involve for that program.

I could do music for indie-type games and hell, just write music for my own personal pleasure. Would that look good?

Also, what about thinking in going into the following:

-English

-Communications

-Business Admin

-Music Theory and Writing

-Computer Science

Would the stated above help me if I do those first in community college? And will performing at for my church Music Team, would that look good or should I give up on that?

I'm going to contradict everything that beckett007 said. A degree does not matter. The portfolio matters and who you know helps too. From what I read and I know many industry professionals have traditional degrees if they have one. If they're in art, they generally have a fine arts degree. If they do programming they have a computer science degree. And if you look at the qualifications many companies are looking for, they generally want old school skills first and foremost. I would recommend against just learning a single program.

You want to do game design, design some simple games on RPG Maker. Create a design document and see it through. Create pen and paper games. Learn Actionscript in Flash and create games there. Or Torque. Game designers are not expected to be masters of programming. Script knowledge and know how would be nice and there are a variety of game designer sub positions such as quest designer, level designer, etc etc. If you do choose to go with RPG Maker try to use some original assests or something that makes it unique.

As far as generalization or specializing? Entirely up to the company. Larger ones prefer specialized skills while smaller ones love people who can wear many hats. I'm personally going to pursue learning texturing and rigging more to try to round out my knowledge. Hell I just need to work more on my art skills in general.

I did go to UAT and I had a good time but I don't I came out of there with the absolutely necessary skills. They focused too much on specialized programs like Hammer or UnrealEd. Those are great to learn on for assignments, but it's better to learn the concepts as you can teach anyone how to use a program and many companies use in house tools.

I also felt that they didn't teach 3D modeling well. I didn't know about mesh flow and such until I looked that up myself. I feel for 3D modeling you should learn the various techniques ie box modeling, strip modeling, etc and apply it to your program of choice and then learn another program. In the case of 3D modeling the tools are more standard with 3DS Max, Maya and XSI Softimage. However some companies use a combination or can and will use their own. Probably another important thing to do is to learn classical skills such as sculpting.

One last thing about UAT before I end this little rant, it is a fairly good place to build up contacts. UAT hosts a yearly event called TechForum and a variety of industry professionals both from games and film and television show up there to discuss a variety of topics. Also UAT generally offers discounted trips to big events like GDC or Siggraph. Both of which are again great places to build contacts.

[JJT]

So, I should not go into Music Theory and Composition then, huh?

If you want to learn music theory and composition, that is a good idea. If you think the degree will get you a job as a composer, that is a poor, poor assumption.

Talent can get you work, and contacts you make at college can get you work. Putting "BA in Composition" on your resume isn't going to do much, unless you want to earn a teaching credential or edit music for a publishing company.

[Xenon Odyssey]

Putting "BA in Composition" on your resume isn't going to do much, unless you want to edit music for a publishing company.

Well, at least if I decide to go down that route there will be no effort involved

But honestly, just like any industry, it's 50% your talent, and 50% your contacts.

[Calpis]

I agree with everything The Wingless has said. Hell, I even went to ITT Technical Institute for an Associate's Degree in Multimedia. The school was shit, 9 out of 10 teachers didn't know what the hell they're doing, and the textbooks were laughable. Through my own fault (financial aid issues) I still haven't received the degree even though I finished and passed every class. Even so, since we graduated (yeah I even went to graduation), I've gotten better jobs than 95% of my old classmates in the same field that we studied. This is because I built up a decent portfolio, presented it nicely, and actually give a shit about advancing my career. Sure, I took a shitty job for about a year but it's still nicer than the jobs the other guys were getting.

Most of my classmates assumed that as soon as they got a degree, a great job would just jump on their lap, but of course that didn't happen. IMHO the key to getting a good job is being willing enough to spend some of your own free time to build your skills and career.

[TheSnowStorm]

If you want to learn music theory and composition, that is a good idea. If you think the degree will get you a job as a composer, that is a poor, poor assumption.

Talent can get you work, and contacts you make at college can get you work. Putting "BA in Composition" on your resume isn't going to do much, unless you want to earn a teaching credential or edit music for a publishing company.

Thanks J! That was another issue I was worried about.

So just get the degree in theory and composition but have the knowledge that that ain't gonna help you out.

Speaking of contact, I have a family friend and violin tutor that used to played for the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra (READ: used to). His name is Adrian Walker and he was also first chair in many of their concerts. Should I consider him a contact since he used to play with such a well-knowned orchestra and still have some ties to it if I ever want to check out the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra?

And Calpis, thanks for your insight on UAT since that was one of the schools I was thinking of going. I do remember the students going to GDC e3 and making contacts during the Tech Fourm.

[Bahamut]

I'm not doing something with a direct relation to the game industry per say (at least currently), but from all of the anecdotal evidence I have from friends who're trying to get into the industry or on the cusp of getting into it, what Wingless says is spot on. When it comes to hiring, the game devs are looking for whether you're able to do what is standard - for example with respect to computer graphics, you have to have a demo reel that shows that you can do all of the standard elements of animation. Having a functional demo game is even more impressive, since it shows you understand more how the animation ties into the other elements of a game. You can have a undergraduate degree, or graduate school degree, but if you can't do what is expected, your degree won't get you into the industry period.

Also as zircon mentioned before, it is extremely shortsighted to go for a specialized trade school degree such as game development. The industry is already saturated with game developers pumping out lots of games - anyone can see this by just how quickly decently reviewed games drop in price (sometimes in under 6 months). A specialized degree just limits your options if companies in your field of choice aren't hiring, and is a greater risk than you have to take.

[CC Ricers]

I'd be wary of any college that promises a degree in "Game Design". What does game design mean to them? A game designer is more of a renaissance man, who has been in the industry long enough to get credibility and respect for the occupation. You can come from almost any combination of job backgrounds and end up being a game designer. Creativity-wise, it's a career at the top of the ladder and therefore sounds ridiculous when you use that title for a degree. Giving out "Game Design" degrees is sort of like a business college giving out "Conglomerate CEO" degrees.

Anyways, I think game programming would be too nerve-wracking in the major leagues, and would rather be working as part of an indie group. I majored in Electronic Visualization and my main interest is web development. My web design classes and 3d modeling classes were decent, though. They made us follow a topic of interest and present it, in a manner that WE teach something to the students. It wasn't a cop-out from lazy teachers, either- it definitely allowed us to give some feedback on how the class was taught. My college was shit at giving internships and career help for us, but with luck I landed a good job after months of sifting through Craigslist postings. It really helped that I did some freelance work in the past.

[Kanthos]

I'm going to contradict everything that beckett007 said. A degree does not matter. The portfolio matters and who you know helps too. From what I read and I know many industry professionals have traditional degrees if they have one. If they're in art, they generally have a fine arts degree. If they do programming they have a computer science degree. And if you look at the qualifications many companies are looking for, they generally want old school skills first and foremost. I would recommend against just learning a single program.

Honestly, having or not having a degree varies by the person. I'm not quite in a position to hire right now (today's my last day as a team lead on my team; I start a new job with a new company on Tuesday), but I've had discussions about hiring with others in my company who have hired before.

Personally, if I was hiring a developer, I wouldn't write them off immediately if they had no degree, depending on the position (I'd never hire someone with only a few years experience and no degree for a senior position). However, I'd expect them to know what someone with a degree knew, at least as is relevant to the job, and their interview would be harder (if I'm familiar with the school from which they have their degree, and in Canada, I'm at least familiar with all the schools that are well-known for CS, then I'd still want to see that they actually learned what they should, but would lean towards a random sampling of knowledge as opposed to an exhaustive test). If they don't know data structures, don't know at least a little bit about optimizing code, don't have significant experience (on their own is fine) with any production programming language (I don't care if we're a java shop and they only have done C++), then no hire. If they have a game development degree and know about AI and graphics but write sloppy code without any thought to architecture and maintainability and don't understand all but the most basic data structures, no hire.