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Legend Of Zelda: Links Awakening WIP - Waking The Fish - Finished? (16/01/09)


WillRock
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The idea of a trance mix for this song at all bothers me on a base level, but I suppose it's not the worst heresy.

Your drums are too loud, they seem to be drowning out the synths some of the time. Although that could just be that I'm not hearing it well with this really loud fan right by me.

I also don't like some of the synths you chose. I'd be more specific about which ones I mean, but there's no timer on the embedded player and I don't know how to write music.

I'll get back to you with more feedback and/or criticisms when I can listen to this without all this background noise in my house.

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This is pretty nice, actually. Interesting synths, though they are quite strange, at the same time. Especially that lead thing 'zipping' around. I dunno how to describe them much more then that. Just strange. And right now I cant even decide if it's a good or bad thing:<

The kick drum sounds like it would be more suitable for a different genre of music, something more realistic. It seems to have a clicky texture rather then a nice thumpin' punch.

But other then that, this is an awesome arrangement. I like the direction it is going in. Looking forward to an update!

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I agree with RT, too much noise in the drum, should be cleaner for trance. Some melody lines on the intro lead synth thing end a little too soon. Lead synth is a little too noisy too, so it sounds a little out of place with this nice and clean backing.

Arrangement is pretty. The melodies are well interpreted, and it doesn't sound like a rehash of any of the other remixes of this. Gonna give you a more in-depth critique when I've got a downloadable version of this. 'Til then, good luck.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Kick sounds a bit too acoustic, and the offbeat notes should be on the last beat, never the third (except for effect). It screws with the track's drive.

Strings are too slow, need shorter attack. Might work in the bg if you'd phase them less. Right now they're sort'a jumping into the action while still being soft and muddying.

2 minutes until the second part of the source? And it didn't feel like it got old while just doing the first part. Great arranging.

The whole track sounds a little muffled, you might want to give it more highs. Strings at 3:30 suffer the same problem as they did around 1:20. Too much phasing, not enough definition. Love the emotional landscape, the chords the track goes through. The Windfish remixes on the site don't have anything like this. They're nothing like this. This _needs_ to be on OCR, so make sure not to sub it too soon.

Great, great work bro.

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Willrock07, you may have submitted this already but I had a few thoughts on the track. To me, the synth that comes in for the first time around 0:35 feels a little rough. Maybe tie those notes together for something legato? Also, the soloing at 1:45 should be brought to the forefront. Its a little drowned right now. Finally, is it just me, or is it a little loud overall?

That's all I have. It's a really good mix, even without changes. I look forward to the final, OCR version. Good luck!

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Willrock07, you may have submitted this already

Nah I'm not going to sub yet, Its great but not perfect yet lol. I'm going to clear the muddiness in the track and try out ideas that you guys have come up with. If this is to pass, I'm going to have to pull out all the production tricks in the book, as that is where I fall short :D

I'm not going to sub this unless I am sure it will be passed.

Question: I'm a little worried about my drum part. I know that this is trance, and you need repetition on the drums, but that has play a major factor in NO decisions in the past.

What do you guys think of the backing drums? Too repetitive? Any suggestions on that if so? And does the track have a good direction in your opinion?

Thanks guys, Update (hopefully final lol) will come soon :D

Thanks for the great feedback, keep it coming!

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Here is my latest update dudes :D

I haven't done much to the arrangment, but I have tweaked the production, removed muddiness by tweaking levels and EQing certain instruments to remove some of the piercing high frequencies like on the 'Daft Punk' lea.

Sounding even better :D

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/fileshack/n/nsnm-Waking%20The%20Fish%20Edit.mp3

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I think this may have enough content on it to be deemed complete. The ending suits it. But if you want to add to it, then be my guest ;) Excellent job on the EQ-ing.

As repetetive as trance drums are, I think you may be alright here with your repetition. Though I'm no judge. You added a little spice here and there with the drum beat, and it suits the mood of the song quite well anyways. If anything... maybe give the kick just a little more oomph. It may just make this song sound all the more trance-y. But just experiment that.

This song rules, otherwise. I do say, it would be nice to see this up on OCR. But wait for some other people's opinions. I tend to like everything I hear, that is, if it's good, like this. Unless, of course, there are obvious problems with the song. But this has no real issues, as far as I can tell. Good luck getting this onto OCR!

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I have made some more tweaks, changed snare and clap sounds, changed the tone of the bass to give it more punch, changed some of the levels slightly.

Listening to jenova celestial (do I REALLY have to provide a link???) the difference is insane production-wise, I don't expect to get it to a level of production as that but I will be making plenty of small tweaks for a short while.

Oh, and I KNOW its too quiet, i'm working on it (I'm having trouble making it any louder without horrible clipping, and yes, I have tried compression, EQ, normalizing etc. so yeah, I'm working on that)

Anyway, here is the newest update.

Enjoy!

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/fileshack/n/nsnm-Waking%20The%20Fish%20Edit.mp3

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Nice Intro

but by :35 it becomes too predictable

it gets better at :50

1:07 is a little weird imo but that's your call

I do believe that there needs to be a better transition to 2:15

Variation is good, but I feel like the melody is lost too much at 2:40

Those are sweet harmonics at 3:00

Nice solo at 3:13

There's a great build up at 3:36 but it leads to an odd transition

at 3:44

Lastly, the ending doesn't relfect the source very much

There's a lot of critique above, but I still think that this arrangement has a lot going for it.

The main issue is making it interesting and less predictable, but at the same time coherent and easy to listen to. The intro would improve, imo, if there were some references to 3:00 in it. A sort of sneak peak so to speak. My favorite part is probably at 3:00 which makes for a good climax. Make sure that the ending has some more reference to the melody instead of becoming its own beast.

Good Work. This is an interesting take on the Wind Fish theme. Keep working on it.

-J3

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The fake guitar wankery really rocks.

But as others said, a track like this has to be a little louder. My initial reaction was 'meh' until I cranked the volume up.

There seems to be a lot of headroom, I loaded the mp3 and had no trouble getting it to a more decent volume level with limiting. Some little parts that are already pretty shrieky right now (2 lead sounds simultaneously +crash cymbal) have to be ironed out, but it shouldn't be hard.

Sound aesthetic wise, everything is very early 90's. Pretty cheesy synthwork, a little boring when the guitar is absent.

Drums do their job but are also bordering on blandness.

Haha, 3:10 is pure 80's Satriani madness.

So my only beef is, the 'backing track' should be more than it is right now. The guitar synth is clearly meant to be the focus of the piece, but the foundation could be more interesting. I think it's more of a timbre than an arrangement issue. Some heavier hitting drums might already be enough.

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Ok, arrangement is done in my eyes, I think there is enough variation to pass there.

At the moment I am working on production, I have increase the volume - a lot - and adjusted compression, EQ, stereo spacing, and maximizing to try and get the biggest and most powerful sound I can out of this. I think I am hearing bits of unwanted distortion, i am unsure (my ears are tired) but if so, I will remove it.

Thoughts?

Waking the Fish

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Please don't remove the links to older versions. Because I think you've overdone it a bit (too squashed). Some brighter elements are very loud now (synths, guitar), and the drums, the kick drum especially, sound pretty weak now in comparison.

Maybe try toning the lead guitar (and maybe some of the louder other synths) down just a little to give the drums/bass a bit more room. I'm listening on headphones right now and whenever I turn the volume to a level that makes the background instrumentation sound nice and full, along comes a super shrieky high guitar note and I have to turn it down again.

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Off-beat kick drum hits still bother me. They work as a fill, but should be on the fourth beat, not the third.

A lot of the stuff sounds a bit cutoff, like there's not enough high mids or low highs in it. Leads and harmonies mostly hit by that.

You've got a heavily reverbed clap/snare or something with only highs, in the bg before 1:50. Sounds terrible. Track needs a better snare/clap. Not sure it's the same as around 1:00, but they both need replacing. Not sure why I haven't spotted those before. Works in the rolls, not as a single hit.

Source melody at 2:02 needs to come out louder. Too far in the bg. You could drop the bass a bit there, either a bit or completely. The interaction between lead and backing at 2:30 falls flat when the backing isn't clear enough. Louder, more dry, would work.

Phased/flanged melodies... not good. That instrument works as a background pad, not quite as good for supporting melodies. Not with that wet on the phaser/flanger. really bothersome around 3:30. At 1:20 they're not quite working either. Too much going on with their sound.

There are some weird chords in the finale, like at 3:48 and 4:05. Sounds a bit like some random desert movie tune, Lawrence of Arabia, Prince of Egypt, Stargate teh movie, whatever. Desert sound. I don't mind 'em, but you should probably know they're doing that if you didn't already, in case your J of choice reacts to them.

I like the tracker feel this has.

Blah blah, that's about all I can think of. Good luck bro.

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  • 1 month later...
What do people think?

My thoughts (and possibly terrible suggestions):

This kick needs more boom/low freq. This sounds... close, real, and weak. Perhaps combine it with the old kick for a better sound, EQ this and get rid of some of the highs or summat? It's less noticeable towards 0:54, but at the beginning when it's kind of the only sound, dunno. Perhaps I am biased; I did like the old kick.

Again, this might be because I liked the old sound, but this new lead seems to really stick out.. really high, and on these headphones, which are a little mid-rangey/trebly, is rather loud. And because of their presence, at 2:12, when you take it away even for a second, everything seems quiet, and i feel a loss of energy.

Sounds a lot drier, too, probably because you took out some reverb or something. I did like how it made things sound...fuller, like around 1:36. Right now at 1:36 the mids strike me as feeling neglected, whereas before it was the highs. I am trying to hear what Rozo commented on earlier about the hi-mids and low-highs... dunno. (I seem to disagree with some of his critiques too, which makes me feel like my opinion is wrong... though I don't believe that's truly possible.)

3:40: sorta feels...overwhelming. The lead and the synth (guitar i guess) seem to be loudly competing in the same/close range. I sort of liked the subtlety and distancing of the old lead because you could either choose to listen to the synth or the guitar, and it always kept the whole listening affair pretty novel and fun. And because they didn't compete so much.

I think if you could find a way to push the lead a little bit back (especially when it's competing that synth guitar thing as mentioned above) it would sit better.

I do like it, still, though.

Now I feel awkward. I wonder what other people think. Basically, I feel the lead doesn't sit so well here (though it can be made to fit), and that the kick could use more bass and less.. uhh, punch?

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My thoughts (and possibly terrible suggestions):

Now I feel awkward. I wonder what other people think. I am trying to hear what Rozo commented on earlier about the hi-mids and low-highs... dunno. (I seem to disagree with some of his critiques too, which makes me feel like my opinion is wrong... though I don't believe that's truly possible)

I wouldn't feel awkward about it :D

Any crits are well recieved, and don't compare your crits to others in a negative light.

For all we know, rozo is one of those people that really doesn't have a clue what he is talking about :tomatoface:

Ok, maybe not :lol:, but still, your crits there seem valid. I'll update it, and say what I have changed. If i've updated anything that you mentioned, then be sure that you are giving at the very least decent advice.

By the way, thanks for the crits. They do seem to differ with rozo's crits, which influenced this new version to an extent, but that doesn't mean your wrong.

For the kick crit, I'm not fairing well with this bass kick, its either not pronounced enough and too bassy, or not the tone i'm looking for (if you follow)

as for the leads - the old lead was meant to blend in with the background - it created some cool harmonies and a wicked soundscape, but because the lead was more of a pad, like rozo said, I changed it, mainly because if it is subbed in that form, that would be a major judge crit, I am sure.

Maybe having a less distorted screamy lead, with the old lead playing with at the same time is the answer. A piano maybe. I'll try that.

Anyway, won't update for a short while. Uni rears its ugly head and I have work to do :P

Keep an eye out for an update tho :P

Did you know about the Zelda 4 remix project?

Anyway, I recognize a lot of instruments here... Reason, yes?

Yes to both questions. All my synth work is done in reason :P

I'm intending to do a rock audition for the links awakening project, but I don't have the time at the moment.

I would audition this, but its not the correct style. GRR.

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Why, too electronic?

I actually started working on a rocky version of this today... but it's still a very early midi so far. Off topic, yes.

Yeh electronic isn't a stylistic choice, I can write/remix in rock and classical styles (although, reasons classical samples aren't the best ever - I'll need to experiment with that :P)

Yes, this is VERY off topic, lets get back to WIP crits :D

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