PRC141 - It's A Me in the Stardust Road (Super Mario Galaxy)

[Kyle Nin]

I thought the point of the contest was to win. Isn't it then important to know what the steady voters (like myself) like and don't like (as in genres, etc.)? Then you can tailor your mixes to achieve an optimal chance of winning.

You say you want to be original, and that's fine. But you don't need to do this contest to do that. You can do that all by yourself. People are doing it all the time.

[Bundeslang]

Oh, well that's another reason for keeping her in my closet

Bundeslang: I agree with what you said, but I didn't make trance this time

Yes, but in most cases, it's about 'people doing trance'. The voter (Gameboy) used that.

I remember a ten year old boy (or girl) posting many remixes (MIDI Rips) on Vgmix while it was in phase 2.5. I wonder if he's the same person.

[OneUp]

I thought the point of the contest was to win. Isn't it then important to know what the steady voters (like myself) like and don't like (as in genres, etc.)? Then you can tailor your mixes to achieve an optimal chance of winning.

You say you want to be original, and that's fine. But you don't need to do this contest to do that. You can do that all by yourself. People are doing it all the time.

Winning is nice, but that's not why I enter these competitions. It's to learn, therefore I try various genres all the time. If it were money involved, then I might "sell out".

Wouldn't it be boring if all remixes sounded the same?

EDIT: And what evktalo said down below.

[Eino Keskitalo]

I thought the point of the contest was to win.

Not really.. The best thing about this contest is that it provides a challenge and especially a deadline - the challenge provides a creative spark, and the deadline ensures I get at least *something* done. The voting means that I get some sort of feedback, both through (a lack of) points and the actual text comments.

Of course, winning a round with lots of good entries and votes would indicate that something went right, that I succeeded creating an enjoyable tune. Otoh genres and so on of course affect the outcome very much and music is enjoyed subjectively - If I did a really good experimental noise tune, it probably wouldn't do well in the contest, at least if there were good entries in more accessible genres. I would still feel that I had succeeded.

All in all, for me this this is competition is not a serious contest, but just a way of having fun that helps me be productive. The contest-like framing is what helps the productivity, so it is good that it's shaped like a competition.

--Eino

[Kyle Nin]

So people don't want to pick the next song? Because if that's the case, maybe we should turn back the clock and just let the person running the contest do it, like the old IMC contest.

Maybe I should just stop voting if it doesn't matter.

[OneUp]

So people don't want to pick the next song? Because if that's the case, maybe we should turn back the clock and just let the person running the contest do it, like the old IMC contest.

Maybe I should just stop voting if it doesn't matter.

Like evktalo said, it does matter. It's an indicator on that you did something good. The only bad thing about winning is that you can't enter that PRC

[Rexy]

Lol, I have to push myself into a debate on a sick day?

reelmojo's mission in making the PRC was a chance to get under-appreciated game music tracks the chance to be remixed. And as previously stated, the contest-like framing is a way to be able to stimulate yourself in productivity. Whether you want to take the experimental approach or wanting to brush/build up your own strengths is entirely up to you, but at the end of it all it's just all a bit of fun.

I mean, I wasn't expecting to overpower someone who had the idea to use a theramin of all instruments (nice work jmr!), but if that's the way it had to go, then there we are. I only just took part in this because it's one of my favorite tracks in the Mario Galaxy score, and one that I almost considered as a source tune myself.

And concerning the source tunes, remember that pretty much all the curators have had pretty much very different tastes over the years. This could be evidenced more in anniversary selections more than anything else - kamoh had more of a passion regarding sports games, which resulted in a very contraversial 2nd anniversary choice. On the other hand, Caleb and I have ended up looking into various action titles for selection, though his selections were more button-masher-happy than what I managed to conjure.

As Bundeslang stated, people have completely different tastes, so if the curator ends up picking source tunes for it all the time, then the contest could wither and die out of lack of interest and variety. That's where the chance for PRC winners come through in providing source tunes - those that strike the jackpot could result in high turnouts and/or even get a chance to forge a future OCRemix out of it (re: PRC120). Otherwise, we could end up resorting to the earlier days of PRC's 5th season with a continued string of "Chickenwarlord vs the world" or something.

I bet there'd be people who'd think better on this subject than me for the time being, so if you want to add, then feel free.

Concerning my source tune, I've decided on the game to go for but I need to seek for the right song from it. I'll have it submitted in time easily

[Kyle Nin]

I always thought PRC was a contest, but I guess from what everyone is saying, it's not. The word competition in the title is misleading.

I remember back during Year One of PRC, it seemed like everyone was trying to do their best, but now it seems like they're not (or most are not). Or maybe the incentive for winning was worth more then than it is now. If everyone doesn't put their best foot forward, then where's the challenge? I'm not saying to not have fun doing it, but a contest is more than just having fun. It has to be challenging or there's no contest. Because that's what a contest is. According to the dictionary: a struggle for victory or superiority. Key word struggle. Meaning there's a challenge involved.

Sorry for ranting away like this, but I'm a little mad that I've been duped for all these years.

[Bundeslang]

Remember the slogan from the PRC:

'The only way to lose a compo is to not participate'.

If you enter, you hope you win the contest. The main goal you want to participate is to learn to improve (and that's only possible when your do the best two win). But, of course, remixers want to win as well and have one of their favorite sources remixed. It's a nice gift (and of course several people do it just for that). If they win, it means that they do well, and that's what the remixers want to hear. A second place in a field with 10 songs should be worth more as a victory in a duel against one song. The opinion from each voter counts (including votes which are discussable). Gameboy's opinion can make people a little angry, but still, he gives his top 3. Every voter is needed, it doesn't matter how helpful it is (even the ones from persons who vote for genre, it tells something), as long as the voter listen to the songs. The only votes who aren't good are votes like:

'S|r Nuts gets first because I loved his remix 'That Tiny Blue Ball' which he did two years ago, The Orchicalcon gets second because he created an awesome Doom 2 Project and Bundeslang gets third for running the contest.'

I hope this discussion can be closed and everyone can look ahead for friday, when the next round will start.

.

[Rexy]

Well, I didn't start taking part until the middle of the 2nd season so I wouldn't know about how seriously everyone took the contest back then. Even when I did, kamoh's feelings regarding this were heavily leniant and I think most of the damage was already done by the time reelmojo came back. Even so, the whole thing regarding serious competition would rather boil down to whom decides to take part and how they approach it, rather than how we view the whole thing. If you've got a confident idea with your take, then go for it no matter what your views are.

[Bundeslang]

PRC is a contest for sure. In the next round, I'll post a list with PRC winners over the last 141 times.

Later, I'll create a list with scores. In that list, you can see who did the best over the last 5,5 years. Something like this:

http://bambombim.googlepages.com/ContestStandings.xls

[Eino Keskitalo]

So people don't want to pick the next song?

Ahh, I managed to leave that bit out. The prize is *very* cool - like stated, you hopefully get to hear some nice interpretations of a tune you like. This happened for me with Showroom Dummy's Syreen mix, which I enjoyed quite a lot. *And* I still got to participate because it was a shared first place. :>

I always do my best with the time I have. I'm a little sad you seem so upset. I think ultimately our viewpoints into this don't really make a huge difference in the results.. all it will ultimately change for me for example is that I personally will always try to make a piece that aims to please me, rather than the voters. But I still try my best to make it as good as I can, so others could enjoy it too. If I win, that's great!

edit #1:

I must thank you for your viewpoint. I appreciate and respect your opinion, especially as you vote regularly and often post on the prc threads. This discussion is making me understand your viewpoint as well, and I'll admit I haven't really thought much about listeners when doing PRC. I don't really think either way is right or wrong, but if I don't think about people who actually listen to the songs at all (except myself, and I admit it's pretty hard for me to listen to my own stuff from a listener viewpoint), it's bound to be a wasted opportunity.

edit #2:

I guess I'll just add here, rather than double-post.

Ookay, I half-promised a bit more thorough reviewing, so here's some.

jmr - Meteorites and Rabbits

An absolutely gorgeous track. I find the blend of electronics and orchestra nearly masteful. It's lush, it's floaty.. the concept, theremin and all, is good, and it's deployed succesfully. To me this is one of the best sounding game remixes that go to the orchestral territory - this sort of sound has a lot of appeal, and it's very well done too. The lead violin sounds a bit fake when exposed towards the end - that's about all I find I'm able to criticize here! Good work, a definite keeper.

CN - When Will I See You Again

You really took the material and made your own interpretation, and it sounds both completely different, and completely recognizable at the same time. Quirky, quirky stuff that reminds me of a lot of proggy stuff, Gentle Giant was already mentioned, and I'll add Peter Gabriel, Thinking Plague and Kate Bush into the comparison pool. Those are all huge compliments. The production is sort of crude with the mechanical piano and all, but I'm not sure if I'd really change that much - it fits! Binweasel has a good point about the hiss in the vocals, though. The singing is great - I'd buy it if I was told this was a demo track of a recording prog group from the 70s. For an album cut I'm sure the producer would want you to warm up the voice a little more. Nice effects on the vocals (the ending), the vocal harmony is a very nice touch, actually a hilight.

Ok, maybe a real piano in the chorus to make it stand out a bit and give it a little warmth, and with the guitar, especially that final trill would sound much better if it was real.

It's kind of it's own hilight that some voters didn't like the vocals at all.. Love it or hate it, I guess! Now you can definitely say your singing provokes a strong reaction.

setokaibarocket - Italian Hardstyle on Mescalin

One thing especially great about this round was that all the entries were in completely different styles. Well, this is a style I definitely don't listen that much, but I enjoy this all the same. It's quite short, though, it sounds like it warms up but then collapses before making it to the starting line.. maybe it's all those drugs.

OneUp - Pill to Lala Land

There's indeed very little source in this, and it sounds rather accidental, it doesn't feel like it informs the rest of the piece at all. It could be any melody on top of the track, really. The track also lacks energy, probably has to do with that lazy on the drums business. I like the weirded-out atmosphere in any case, the beginning is promising.

Rexy - We Form in Star Bits

Quite a comeback, eh! Good performance - I take you played this all live? It's less soft than some of your earlier tracks I've been listening recently , so that's good. I especially like how I can hear the tone of the piano clearly. I still have a bunch of crits - the piano should be more prominently in the front of the mix, they compete with the strings too much while the latter are definitely in a secondary role. I guess the piano should also be louder in relation to the drums. You're doing a piano mix, showcase it! The majority of expression and variation in this piece is in how you play the piano, and it's a pity it's (relatively) so buried. Bringing it up would make the whole piece seem a bit more dynamic.

I also wish the snare had a bit more "ring" to it, a little sharper sound, maybe a touch of reverb as well. I really like that ride cymbal + percussion thing that starts at 01:15, and the ride alone before that has a very nice rhythm as well.

The piece obviously lends itself to this style very well, and it's definitely quite pleasant to listen to. I wasn't as wowed with this piece as I was with my top two picks, they really surprised me and their style has more appeal to me. But it's definitely a deserved win!

cheers!

--Eino

[Rexy]

Eino, your feedback rocks. I'd probably think with a clearer head if I wasn't so sick at the moment, but I want to pass by a quick thanks and some clarifications.

As stated, the piano part was all live, but everything else was a sequenced backing track for it. I did spend quite a bit of time in bumping up the piano's presence in comparison to other tracks, but if you thought it was still drowned out, then that's ok; it's something to consider for next time.

And as stated in the Summoning of Spirits thread, then yes, drum processing is an area that I seriously need to work on more. I've managed to explore with a new patch I found earlier this week and might explore it for future interpretations, depending on the circumstances.

Either way, thanks very much for the feedback

[jmr]

I thought the point of the contest was to win.

I approached this PRC the same way I have the recent OHCs: as an opportunity to improve. Everything else, including winning, is secondary. Which is why, in nearly all of the OHCs I've participated in to date, I've attempted something different, something new to me. Even this entry was a learning experience; I've never tried recreating a theremin-like synth before. (if it wasn't already obvious, i didn't use a real theremin. sadly. I've always wanted to try one.)

Despite all that, it's still nice to know that my work is liked. It's a really great feeling.

[analoq]

Gameboy's opinion can make people a little angry, but still, he gives his top 3. Every voter is needed, it doesn't matter how helpful it is (even the ones from persons who vote for genre, it tells something), as long as the voter listen to the songs.

In this case, that vote was very disrespectful to the remixers and the criteria for picking the 3rd place was juvenile. IMO the vote should have been discarded.

[Rexy]

Juvenile or not, it's still a valid opinion. I would have also accepted it if I was still hosting this thing. Sure, he's definitely turned several heads with this, but there's nothing in the rules that say that voters shouldn't have a genre bias or anti-bias (though I do agree that that's a horrible thing to have concerning the latter).

[Lemonectric]

In this case, that vote was very disrespectful to the remixers and the criteria for picking the 3rd place was juvenile. IMO the vote should have been discarded.

I agree, but at least the final ranking was unaffected.

[analoq]

I picked a random one with bad vocals for third because it didn't mention the word "trance" anywhere in the description.

It's rather difficult for me to see how that sort of arbitrary logic can be validated. I can tolerate any opinion, but this is mindless bigotry.

[Hardbeat Acolyte]

I agree with most of the points expressed by OneUp and Bundeslang. Of course, it was a great round and Rexy certainly earned the win =D

oh also, I didn't get a chance to vote, but OneUp's mix was certainly original, and entertaining to listen to, lol. Even though it couldn't be called trance or 'clubber' music of any description, hah ;p

I remember a ten year old boy (or girl) posting many remixes (MIDI Rips) on Vgmix while it was in phase 2.5. I wonder if he's the same person.

If it is, then I would certainly like to praise him/her for their originality, and taking the sources in such fresh directions

Also, excuse me for being a stubborn prick Game_Boy, but my mix was not trance. It was hardstyle. Although I love both, there are very substantial differences between the two genres, and I believe that one who is not adequately versed in the ways of electronic music can hardly justify lumping them all together in the one broad category [/rant]

[Bundeslang]

Lot's of people think trance and hardstyle is the same, but IT IS NOT.

I've thought to disqualify the vote, but since the first two places aren't 'juvenile' and he stated that he 'thought' that OneUp and Setokaibarocket did a in his eyes trance song, which means he doesn't want to give them the point, only place 3 and 4 aren't decided well (But, he listened to the song). If it was making different, I would have added a bonus point to Evktalo, but it wasn't needed.

People who enter PRC try to do their best to win, I can't believe that someone knows how to make a better song and doesn't do it. Many times, the only reason why a remixer could have done better is time problems, not that they don't want to win the contest.

[Tex]

By the way, Bundeslang, your signature was still linked to the previous compo.

[OneUp]

oh also, I didn't get a chance to vote, but OneUp's mix was certainly original, and entertaining to listen to, lol. Even though it couldn't be called trance or 'clubber' music of any description, hah ;p

Same here, with full time studies and a job, I didn't have time to vote. Must say that you've improved your hardstyle making quite a bit Still a little blurry in the low register, but you would've gotten a vote from me.

[Thu]

On the whole topic: I don't really see this as a competition as such, but rather a good mean of incentive to learn myself how to arrange and mix/master a song with a definite deadline.

What I really like is getting comments on how other people viewed what I worked with, and I do think that commenting when voting should be more or less mandatory, just a few lines about why you liked or didn't like the song and especially some constructive criticism.

In my opinion, what makes Gameboy's comment especially insulting is that I have never seen him enter the compo himself. I might be wrong there, but to criticize others (in a derogatory manner) without participating yourself is just plain hypocritical.

I see remixing as an art form where you try to improve, emphasize or alter what is already there amd where you can bend a song to your liking. If you don't like instrumental music, you improve it by adding a stunning vocal track. If you hate pianos (who could ever do that?!), you replace it with a spanish flamenco-guitar of your choice etc.

However, at least Gameboy was honest; I mean, I dislike slow songs as well as songs in a major key, I'm sure that affects my voting, and I'm pretty sure that everyone has likes/dislikes like that and that our votes are coloured by it. It's more the way he said it than what he actually said that makes me a sad panda.

Also, I would prefer not winning any PRC, because there's a lot of agony in finding a good source. (But of course, it's outweighed by the very rewarding feeling to see your source refined into unexpected new pieces of music).

Sidenote: I guess I should have voted this time, because I wouldn't have had OneUp in the top 3. ^^

[Siamey]

lol gameboy is a dickbag for calling trance rubbish etc, but i would say that expecting most music fans to listen to seto's song and be like "oh this isnt trance, its suchandsuchsubgenreoftranceortechnoorwhatever" is unrealistic, and though i enjoy setokaibarocket's stuff, i do think it is not as palatable to the masses as a lot of mainstream trance stuff, because the masses aren't techno connoisseurs, and as such, wouldn't appreciate the nuances of his genre.

ps WOO! lets get this show on the road, lets get the next tune picked pronto so we can battle royale this shit. rexy please dont pick a bad song or some random song which is a total drag to work on, to the point where I delete the project 10 hours in. cough supermariogalaxy cough terribleuninspiredsource cough

[Hardbeat Acolyte]

Thanks OneUp, glad to hear it =D

Hehe, you're entirely right Siamey =P i doubt that most people who aren't techno connoiseurs would correctly guess various forms of electronic music too, but I just wanted to be an ass about it in this one particular instance, lol =p

Yeah like Thu and others I think the best thing about the competition is certainly getting feedback on your work. Also it's fun trying new/underground/weird things with a source and seeing what comes of it, hahaha =p I certainly wasn't expecting to win this round with my rather experimental mix in any case, and I do think hardstyle is an aquired taste, haha.

Anyways, nice round people, and I look forward to hearing the next source! =D