The Best Hardware for ReMixing?

[TheKrow]

Okay, so some unfortunate events happened to myself over the past two days or so, and it so happens that my PC has become useless. Due to various issues I'd rather not discuss, I now need to purchase a new computer. I've been thinking, or rather wanting, to get a Mac to continue my mixing hobby, more or less, but I'm not sure what I should really go for because it will have to last me a while.

I had been thinking about purchasing a Macbook for 999$, but I'm not entirely sure it will cover all my mixing needs. A bigger screen would be nice, but I'm not incredibly picky. I was curious if I should just invest the money in a better model like the Macbook Pro or iMac, rather than settling for the cheaper version of the Macbook. I'm a user of FL Studio which I know doesn't take a whole lot good specs to run well, but I might switch to Logic or Reason in the future.

Any suggestions? Feedback will be greatly appreciated.

[LuketheXjesse]

I will go ahead and say that there are FAR less mixing resources for Mac computers. You're limiting yourself if you get one.

EDIT: Best hardware is a little vague at best. You simply need a lot of RAM, a good (external?) sound card, and creative ability.

also I suggest a nice free DAW called Reaper :3

[Rozovian]

I will go ahead and say that there are FAR less mixing resources for Mac computers. You're limiting yourself if you get one.

Luke... what?

Because macs can't run windows and therefor not FL either?

Because there are no free plugins available for mac?

Because the big plugin developers don't develop for mac?

Because logic and reason don't work on macs?

Because macs are made for gaming, not for professional stuff like audio, video, graphics, etc.?

Krow, plan ahead. When you have the computer, what's next? Windows for mac? Logic/Reason? An audio interface? Sample library or something else? Also, what else will you need your computer for?

[LuketheXjesse]

Quite a number of DAWs are not compatible with Mac computers if I remember correctly.

Also I don't remember most of the plugins I got being Mac compatible but maybe I was not being attentive.

[Jewbei]

well FL isnt compatible with mac and to my understanding i dont think you can even upgrade a mac once you get it thats all you get if you want more freedom id say jus stick to pc..mac's are over hyped both the pc and the mac are jus as powerful and can do the same thing.

[TheKrow]

Luke... what?

Because macs can't run windows and therefor not FL either?

Because there are no free plugins available for mac?

Because the big plugin developers don't develop for mac?

Because logic and reason don't work on macs?

Because macs are made for gaming, not for professional stuff like audio, video, graphics, etc.?

Krow, plan ahead. When you have the computer, what's next? Windows for mac? Logic/Reason? An audio interface? Sample library or something else? Also, what else will you need your computer for?

I just want to say PCs are made for gaming, everything else is probably best suited for a Mac, or so I've heard.

There's also Bootcamp which will run FL Studio just fine. In FL Studio I pretty much relied on a sample library for my work, but VSTs are a near-future possiblity. I know Logic is great with Macs so I'll probably end up with that if I decide not to get FL, although I'd rather not have to learn using another DAW. I'm not planning on doing anything professional, but I'd prefer professional-quality work.

And Jewbei, there's no question about a choice about getting a PC or Mac. I'm getting a Mac.

[Halt]

Quite a number of DAWs are not compatible with Mac computers if I remember correctly.

Also I don't remember most of the plugins I got being Mac compatible but maybe I was not being attentive.

You can always dual-boot the mac Luke. thats what alot of people do.

Hell, I was thinking about getting a Mac laptop, or a MacBook Pro. If I do. I plan to dual-boot it so I can run FL on it.

[PrototypeRaptor]

Mac's are not worth it, imo. They used to be really stable and awesome, but now that apple's become popular it seems they are slacking a bit in the quality control. They're not perfect by any means - they've just always been the standard, so they continue that way.

PC's are ridiculously cheap if you build them yourself ala newegg...and they are usually better than the mac counterparts spec-wise.

Macbooks are very underpowered from my perspective. You would probably hit a wall with processing power pretty soon. (also ram, with the sample libraries)

If I were you, I'd build a desktop pc with windows xp for an audio computer, especially since you can throw in a 3.2 core 2, 8 gb of ram, and a 1tb hard drive for 3/4 the cost of the macbook.

(Also, if you are dead set on a "mac" you could always make a hackintosh, which is the best of both worlds. Sweet processing power, cheap, and the mac os you seem to want... And you could get a designer case to make it look pretty, if you just have to have that...)

if you have to have a laptop, you're going to need an audio interface...and you're going to pay more for less, either way you go.

[Halt]

I'm building a PC ordering some parts sunday. But, the reason I'd get a mac is because for on the go remixing, nothing big. and my laptop i have now I dislike.

Not even sure what OS I'm gonna use on my PC I'm building (My PC is a budget cause I have a shitty job )

But Krow is set on a Mac

[Vivi22]

If I were you, I'd build a desktop pc with windows xp for an audio computer, especially since you can throw in a 3.2 core 2, 8 gb of ram, and a 1tb hard drive for 3/4 the cost of the macbook.

I'll just point out that if you did build a computer and use Windows Xp, don't put 8 gigs of RAM in it. It'll never use it unless you go with 64-bit XP, which I don't recommend because support dried up when Vista 64-bit came out not long after. You'll likely run into driver issues with audio interfaces, or software issues with some VST's not working, and the manufacturer will pretty much tell you you're boned (I tried 64-bit XP for a while before deciding it wasn't worth the trouble).

I'll agree with the idea of building your own machine rather than buying a Mac. There's no reason to think that a Mac is somehow magically better at making music than a PC, and PC's are most certainly not just for games. The best way to make this decision is to look at the features of both, as well as the music programs available for them (and their features of course) and decide what you'd like to have, and if what the Mac offers is worth the price premium they charge for weaker hardware. Don't just get a Mac because you have the idea in your head that they're just better. They're only better if you like the way they do things and they run the programs you want. Otherwise you just make yourself a victim of marketing hype.

[Arcana]

Way to turn this into a Mac vs. PC thread!

Here's some information I find useful when considering buying a new computer.

- Mac Hardware is more expensive. It also looks nice and tends to run well. More importantly, it comes pre-assembled and thus, when you get your computer you don't have to spend any time putting stuff together.

You also don't have to choose components. For many people, this is a negative, but I do not see the lack of choice as a detrimental thing because you save a lot of time by simply pointing to the machine that you want. This is great for those DIY types, but when you get old like me, it just becomes a pain in the butt to hand-pick every part of your computer, and have it come in thirty different little boxes that you have to put together.

Yes, you pay more money. However, you also get an operating system that "just works", you don't have to deal with drivers 90% of the time, you don't have to deal with as many viruses and worms, you get nice little extras like 2-finger scrolling on your trackpad, 3-finger application switching, MagSafe, and a backlit keyboard.

- Don't buy RAM or bigger hard drives from Apple. Buy them yourself.

- Some people are split on Applecare. I personally recommend it for a laptop, I only kind of recommend it for desktops. Apple laptops are not exactly built to be beasts; like any machine you'd move around a lot they tend to suffer a bit of punishment. If you live close to a Mac Authorized Repair Centre, you just take your Mac in if it has a problem and they fix it for you.

I've personally had almost no issues with Mac desktops, but almost every Macbook Pro I've seen has had an issue crop up a few times. The one that I've been using has had a bunch of cosmetic repairs done to it (one time to replace the mainboard to fix the old model's problem with noise, and one time it was brought in to check a booting problem that turned out to go away after a run on their diagnostics CD.

- Mac desktops are VERY expensive. Mac Pros are so expensive that if you're just a hobbyist, it's really, really hard to justify shelling out the $3000 on it. But, if you do, it'll last you a solid 4 years.

- The resale value on Mac computers is very, very good in comparison with the PC market. If you buy a $3000 Mac, expect to be able to sell it for $1000 in two-three years. You cannot say the same for a $3000 PC.

- Mac runs Windows fine. You dual boot and you go.

- Logic Studio's price has dropped compared to the price of Logic Pro 7, so for $500 you can get a nice package with great sounds, a good interface, and good audio capabilities.

- I would not recommend a $999 Macbook for lots of Audio stuff, you'll probably be wishing you had more CPU and a Firewire port. I'd get at least a Macbook Pro (it has Firewire 800).

If you are willing to get a desktop solution instead, the 24" iMac is actually not a bad price considering how compact it is. Don't get a 20" iMac, it's not really worth it.

- If you want to do a lot of recording you'll have to invest in a Firewire audio device. The new Macs (not MacBook) have Firewire 800, but it's backward compatible with Firewire 400 so you'd only have to get a converter plug.

- It's easy to hook up a Mac laptop to an external monitor, so don't lament the small screen size too much. However, you'll have to get a monitor adapter, which is an annoying additional cost.

- Keep in mind that Mac OS X is on a slightly faster paid release cycle than Windows. Windows tends to release a paid upgrade every 2-3 years or so (XP's release was five years, and that was abnormally long; you can see Microsoft wants to move to faster paid upgrades by moving to Windows 7). Mac OS X updates are released about once every 2 years and costs about $100 (i.e. Jaguar->Tiger->Leopard->Snow Leopard).

- It is (IMO) much, much easier to maintain a Mac OS X computer than it is to maintain a Windows XP computer (or Linux, for that matter). I've never had to reinstall a Mac OS X due to degrading performance or unrecoverable OS driver failures. It is easy to use Time Machine to make incremental backups for restoring your files, and it is also easy to use SuperDuper! to image stable versions of your main drive to an external hard disk. I've yet to totally hose my machine beyond repair with bad software configurations.

If you're a programmer or a power user, you can also install anything from the open source world on your Mac as well, including databases, web servers, programming environments.

I hope some of this helps when it comes to deciding what kind of computer you want.

[TheKrow]

I'll just point out that if you did build a computer and use Windows Xp, don't put 8 gigs of RAM in it. It'll never use it unless you go with 64-bit XP, which I don't recommend because support dried up when Vista 64-bit came out not long after. You'll likely run into driver issues with audio interfaces, or software issues with some VST's not working, and the manufacturer will pretty much tell you you're boned (I tried 64-bit XP for a while before deciding it wasn't worth the trouble).

I'll agree with the idea of building your own machine rather than buying a Mac. There's no reason to think that a Mac is somehow magically better at making music than a PC, and PC's are most certainly not just for games. The best way to make this decision is to look at the features of both, as well as the music programs available for them (and their features of course) and decide what you'd like to have, and if what the Mac offers is worth the price premium they charge for weaker hardware. Don't just get a Mac because you have the idea in your head that they're just better. They're only better if you like the way they do things and they run the programs you want. Otherwise you just make yourself a victim of marketing hype.

It's not that I have the idea in my head that they're better, it's just that I'm sick of PCs. I've pretty much been stuck with them my whole life, never actually being able to choose my own standard, but between them I just prefer using a Mac much more, they're easier to manage. Not only this, but I'm friends with an expert on the subject, so it's like free immediate troubleshooting or support service. Not to mention some other free bonuses.

But thanks for your info everyone, especially Arcana. I already did quite a bit of research today actually, and I believe I'm going to go with a 24" iMac. I realized that I wanted a notebook because it's less of a hassle, but I completely forgot that iMacs were also basically one piece.

Perhaps I might regret it down the road, not building my own PC, but hey it will be my fault then. Besides, I checked out Logic Pro 8 today, and it's looking even more kick-ass than I thought.

[PrototypeRaptor]

Totally didn't mean to turn this into a mac vs pc thread; it's just I have had some personal experience where I regretted my rather expensive choice and I hate to see that happen to anyone else.

One last thing for you to consider:

If you want "control," ie: the ability to customize, then the PC is for you.

The reason the mac os "just works" is because it holds your hand and does all of this stuff behind the scenes so you don't have to worry about it. It only does things one way, so it always works. That one way.

If you want to do it any other way? nope.

I couldn't stand that, and am SO happy to be back on the windows side where I can happily screw something up while at least feeling like I have some control of what I'm doing.

but I digress. no more from me, there are plenty of other forums to troll about mac vs pc's...XD

[Vivi22]

It's not that I have the idea in my head that they're better, it's just that I'm sick of PCs. I've pretty much been stuck with them my whole life, never actually being able to choose my own standard, but between them I just prefer using a Mac much more, they're easier to manage. Not only this, but I'm friends with an expert on the subject, so it's like free immediate troubleshooting or support service. Not to mention some other free bonuses.

But thanks for your info everyone, especially Arcana. I already did quite a bit of research today actually, and I believe I'm going to go with a 24" iMac. I realized that I wanted a notebook because it's less of a hassle, but I completely forgot that iMacs were also basically one piece.

Perhaps I might regret it down the road, not building my own PC, but hey it will be my fault then. Besides, I checked out Logic Pro 8 today, and it's looking even more kick-ass than I thought.

Wasn't trying to turn it into a Mac vs PC thread here either, I just got the impression earlier that you were going with a Mac because you perceived them as better for music production, regardless of whether that is in fact the case.

For what it's worth, barring a Mac Pro (which, if I ever get a Mac it'll be one of those) I'd go with a 24" iMac myself. I like having a larger screen (hell, if I had the money right now I'd run with a second 22" monitor) and find they come in real handy for midi sequencing. I used to use Reason on my 15.4" Laptop screen, but it's got nothing on a 22" or larger monitor.

I'd go with the base 24" though. Maybe bump up to a 1TB hard drive if you must, but you'll get more for your money going with the smaller hard drive and buying an external to store things on. I don't think you'd need the faster processor of the higher models, and since the better graphics cards are wasted on a music machine, the speed increase in the processor isn't worth the money you'd throw down for anything above the base 24" iMac.

Also for what it's worth, I do like a lot of features on a Mac, and even prefer Mac OSX to Windows in some respects. I even considered going with a Mac when I was in the market for a new computer, but just couldn't go that route when I considered the performance I could get for the money building a PC. I've also discovered I just enjoy building my own PC's now too which is kind of cool. Built my dad a new music machine a few weeks ago actually.

[Fishy]

Pre-macrant note: There is no best, it just happens to work well for me and thus i obviously recommend it.

I've had the macbook pro + logic combo for ages, and imo it IS worth the money.

A lot is said about them being expensive, but there's a reason my mums dell laptop died after 1 year of highly infrequent and boring use, and my macbook pro has been turned on for literally 18 months straight, put under a lot of strain (over 300 complete battery cycles) and gaming under bootcamp, and has never given me any problems unless it was in windows at the time. I think its crashed maybe... 5 times in total when booted in OSX. It still runs like the day it was bought and clearly has years left in it. Its expensive because they don't cheap out on parts. Sure there are some horror stories but they're very rare from a "per user" point. I don't think I've ever heard anyone NOT complain about their PC at one point or another.

Yes a hand built pc is cheaper, it also has no warranty, and no guarantee it will all work.

Just to clarify I'm not an Apple fanboy, macbooks clearly have flaws, but imo the platform is far more stable and reliable from a music production point of view, and reliability is more important to me then free vst's/soundfonts. The guy says he's interested in logic and reason, which Another Soundscape will tell you work most harmoniously on his macbook pro . If you do go the apple route, but the lowest ram possible and upgrade it yourself, they do enjoy ripping you off on that front.

[TheKrow]

The guy says he's interested in logic and reason

Rofl I totally didn't catch that pun, but it somehow works.

Anyway, another big thing that Fishy touched on was the warranty; I'm really interested in having some pretty long coverage on EVERYTHING. Sure, individual parts might have their own warranty, but who knows how credible they can be. I also happen to know that if you're in need of a replacement for your warranty and your model is too old (which really isn't that old) then Apple will just give you the latest version, free of charge, which is pretty cool to me.

[Yoozer]

I'm a user of FL Studio which I know doesn't take a whole lot good specs to run well, but I might switch to Logic or Reason in the future.

You'll spend 3-6 months re-learning everything that you could do fluently in FL Studio (or any previous DAW you've spent time in) and don't bother with Reason other than using it as a plugin or sketchpad; it can't do as much as you could do in FL Studio.

[Arcana]

I think Reason is fine (I'm rather comfortable with it) but then again, I learned in Reason and I find programs like Logic Pro kind of frustrating in comparison now. But, I'd ask someone who actually knows more than me in this area (I'm in very many respects a fresh noob). Another Soundscape is probably the best source about this, he seems very friendly and eager to help. If he ever posts random tips of the day, I'll be the first one to sign up.

I don't know what your experience with Reason is, but if you've never used either Logic or Reason before in your life, I would expect the transition from FLStudio to Logic Pro would be easier than the transition from FLStudio to Reason.

Yoozer is right in one respect though: prepare to spend a lot of time sitting there thinking, "I know how to do this in FLStudio, how do I do this in Logic/Reason?"

Vivi is correct in that Mac OS X doesn't allow for a lot of customization, but it is actually possible to change it up quite a bit, even to the point where you're not using the default desktop GUI anymore. It's just that 99% of the Mac users buy a Mac because it, well, works like a Mac instead of like something else.

[Fishy]

You'll spend 3-6 months re-learning everything that you could do fluently in FL Studio (or any previous DAW you've spent time in) and don't bother with Reason other than using it as a plugin or sketchpad; it can't do as much as you could do in FL Studio.

This is true of switching from any DAW to any other DAW. I don't think that FL or reason are what you would call typical DAWs, so I think its fairly important that anyone learning music production should at some point learn one of them.

Basically that's Logic, Pro Tools, Sonar, Cubase or Reaper (probably missed one or two).

[LuketheXjesse]

Basically that's Logic, Pro Tools, Sonar, Cubase or Reaper (probably missed one or two).

I learned Reaper in like...two days thanks to DeathBySpoon's kick ass tutorial...

[Dj Mokram]

Basically that's Logic, Pro Tools, Sonar, Cubase or Reaper (probably missed one or two).

Yeah, but they're less known: Renoise, Nuendo, and the mysterious Krystal.

[analoq]

I believe Fishy was discriminating between "typical DAWs" and "non-typical DAWs". Renoise is a tracker, so I think it would fit into the latter category.

On a related note, the way people use the term DAW around here was always a misnomer to me. Traditionally DAWs referred to software and hardware packages, like ProTools TDM. I think zircon was the first person I met to use DAW to describe any recording/sequencing software.

Suffice to say, I never got used to it.

[Harmony]

Krystal.

That's pretty cool for a thesis project. However, in terms of usability...

2 VST insert slots per channel

...what am I supposed to do with that!? Gate -> Compressor -> ohnoes!

On a related note, the way people use the term DAW around here was always a misnomer to me

Same here. But I have seen the terms used in this way outside of OCR.

[Dj Mokram]

Traditionally DAWs referred to software and hardware packages, like ProTools TDM.

Yeah this makes sense, as the workstation also need some physical working components to run properly.

I guess the term 'sequencers' would have been more appropriate on this occasion.

Don't like the word 'trackers' though, cause it would imply a limitation in what the sofware really is capable of.

2 VST insert slots per channel...what am I supposed to do with that!? Gate -> Compressor -> ohnoes!

It's pretty rad indeed! But if you're not a 'real time fx' freak, it could still help people getting started with a DAW...er, I mean a sequencer.

Even though in that case, Reaper or FL would be a more appealing alternative.

[analoq]

Don't like the word 'trackers' though, cause it would imply a limitation in what the sofware really is capable of.

To some people, maybe. But I think it is disingenuous to put Renoise in the same category as other music production software that uses the more common Event list / Piano roll interface for sequencing.

When I think tracker I don't think capability, I think interface. Patterns, Playlists, and an editor grid bound by the smallest subdivision.

When I think sequencer I think of what it does: define a sequence of control information. It could be n-step analog sequencer, onboard workstation sequencer, software MIDI sequencer. I don't imagine a particular interface.

When I think DAW I think of a computer with a particular (and often proprietary) hardware and software configuration for making music.

In conclusion, I pretty much hate everyone who doesn't think exactly the same way I do.

cheers.