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Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes killed (C&D story not proven)


Kiyobi
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The stress of working on a huge project for years and years can make you do all kinds of things that don't make sense.

Not saying he did, I'm just saying I can definitely see his position in doing that.

But all the work was basically done. And he WANTED to do the project. If he didn't want to be involved he could have stepped out, but now you're telling me he made more work for himself dealing with this PR nightmare?

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There could be any number of reasons why he'd do this to himself. They all come down to the fact that for whatever reason (it's not actually as done as we've been lead to believe, or he wasn't pleased with the overall quality, or he just got sick of it and decided to stop regardless of everything else) he doesn't want to do it anymore, and it's a lot easier to be a victim than to be a quitter. If he gets slapped with a C&D letter, he gets to be the virtuous fan being oppressed by big bad Squenix. If he just stops and refuses to finish/release the project, then he's a loser who talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk... and might end up running into resistance from other project members who DO want it finish/released, as well.

Not saying that that's what's going on (I don't know Zeality or the situation well enough to judge), but that's WHY he might fake a C&D letter instead of just abandoning the project.

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But all the work was basically done. And he WANTED to do the project. If he didn't want to be involved he could have stepped out, but now you're telling me he made more work for himself dealing with this PR nightmare?

Like I say, I'm not saying thats what he did, I'm just saying its thoroughly plausible based on that letter (which I agree with Darkesword is poorly written) and what I've heard about him so far. You don't put that time and energy into a project unless you expect to really get something out of it, and if the insecurity that you wasted all that time and life creeps in, it'll build a nest, then a hive, and then it takes over to fabricate a reason to not to work on this accursed project and junk whats left so as not to remind yourself how much you gave for nothing.

Now, back on topic, did Zeality junk the project? Could he hand the project off to someone else to finish and anonymously release it to the community from there?

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The Coop kind of brings up a good point. Like...wouldn't you wait until it was done before you advertised it? I dunno, this whole thing just seems odd to me.

Thats a pretty good indicator, to me, that he was really wanting something out of it, like nerd fame or whatever its called.

To be fair, he likely didn't expect it to take so long, and wanted to drum up interest to:

A: Build that positive energy from well-wishers to continue working on it.

B: Build a fanbase that, if someone drops out, would be willing to help pick up the slack and find a replacement.

Its more likely, though, that it was an oversight and ego thing.

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Thats a pretty good indicator, to me, that he was really wanting something out of it, like nerd fame or whatever its called.

To be fair, he likely didn't expect it to take so long, and wanted to drum up interest to:

A: Build that positive energy from well-wishers to continue working on it.

B: Build a fanbase that, if someone drops out, would be willing to help pick up the slack and find a replacement.

Its more likely, though, that it was an oversight and ego thing.

Yeah, I'd say it's more of an ego thing. But I guess it could keep you going on a project years in the making, but given the circumstances probably shouldn't have.

It's too bad because there'd be plenty of that to go around if it they were successful and people got to see it.

The sad thing is, given the time, energy, and effort they put into this, and they probably couldn't have estimated how long it would take, they could've made their own game and maybe even made some money of it, or at least be free to have something potentially impressive to showcase to potential employers.

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The Coop kind of brings up a good point. Like...wouldn't you wait until it was done before you advertised it? I dunno, this whole thing just seems odd to me.

This would be the smart thing to do, but you'd be surprised how many people in ALL types of fields don't think of doing that.

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Isn't there a third option here? Couldn't it be fake, but sent by someone else? Given that Zeality probably made enough enemies through his attitude & behavior, it seems plausible that the letter could be from a third party... let's say they used legit phone numbers, too - if they actually called Square to see if it was legit, it might end up "becoming" real since they probably wouldn't give the project a green light if contacted directly... just a thought.

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Here's the deal with the whole phonecall thing.

According to zeality's team, they called it up and it's "legit".

However someone else tried to call and they refused to transfer them into the legal department; instead they kept transferring them to PR. Apparently nobody had any clue as to what was going on regarding a cease order there.

Also, the e-mail included in the cease doesn't exist; it bounces back (or did as of yesterday).

Also, when Chrono Resurrection (or whatever the 3d scenario-based remake was called) was shut down, the letter THEY were sent was COMPLETELY different in appearance.

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For the curious, here was the letter submitted to the Chrono Resurrection team. It was NOT sent by SquareEnix themselves, but by the law firm that represents them in North America. If the order sent to the Crimson Echoes team were legitimate, it would be extremely similar to the one sent to Chrono Resurrection, but it isn't. It's rare that a company will directly send a C&D order anyway (they will typically make their legal representation do it), which is why this whole thing seems very fishy.

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Anyone feel ambitious enough to start an investigation team? :)

Edit: Hmm.... if I email Square-Enix and inquire, and it turns out they DIDN'T know anything about it until I mention it specifically, wouldn't that bring it to their attention anyway?

Edit II: But... wait, the project's already "dead" so what does it hurt to poke a dead man?

I'm totally going to do this..

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Looking deeper into the topic KyleJCrb posted back early on, and it looks like the whole dig is legit.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,8582.msg134276.html#msg134276

I don't know about the whole OCR v. Zeality shenanigans, but it sure sounds like you all hate him. I dunno who the hell he is, all I know is that he's involved with this CE project.

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Looking deeper into the topic KyleJCrb posted back early on, and it looks like the whole dig is legit.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,8582.msg134276.html#msg134276

Not sure how that proves anything. I have nothing against Zeality, the romhack, or Chrono Compendium, but the evidence against this being a legitimate C&D order is pretty overt.

Here's something interesting; A German forum copied a post from the romhacking.net thread that was deleted, mentioning a few of the key differences between the letter received by the Crimson Echoes team and the one sent to Chrono Resurrection.

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Here's something interesting; A German forum copied a post from the romhacking.net thread that was deleted, mentioning a few of the key differences between the letter received by the Crimson Echoes team and the one sent to Chrono Resurrection.

This little story of ours got fucked up pretty quickly, didn't it?

(Suddenly, the idea of using Temporal Flux to make a ROM hack based on this wild episode forms tastily in the mind. Then Meteo remembers he doesn't have Temporal Flux anymore and is sad. :( )

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This is hilarious drama and that C&D is so so fake.

The wording is stilted, the citations are anemic, and no legal department would sign without placing a single representative responsible. If all of the SE's C&D letters were as such, without any accountability, it'd be a complete nightmare for them if a disgruntled ex-employee decided to steal some.

Large corporations are masters at CYA, and this is just bad.

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Looking deeper into the topic KyleJCrb posted back early on, and it looks like the whole dig is legit.

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,8582.msg134276.html#msg134276

I don't know about the whole OCR v. Zeality shenanigans, but it sure sounds like you all hate him. I dunno who the hell he is, all I know is that he's involved with this CE project.

I doubt its legit from what I'm hear about him, there's reasons they dislike him, reasons why this isn't legit.

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