VG Music Analysis (Come on down! Discuss Theory!!)

[SoulinEther]

You've got me thinking about perfect fifths and fourths in a whole different way. Cool.

[Brian]

Yay a music theory thread! I have a question to ask you guys.

Down below are the chords for the popular main theme song of Legend of Zelda. I had an argument with this guy, but I'll ask you guys just to be sure. I said it was Bb major (above) and the other guy said it was Bb minor (below). The Bb minor with 5 flats reduces the number of accidentals making it "easier to read". From my point of view I said it was Bb major because it begins in Bb major and later resolves to Bb major again.

Bb: I, v, bVI(3-6), bIII, bII, i, II, V (above)

Bbm: Too lazy to work it out, just look at the pic (below)

So which is it? I find this chord progression fascinating because you can easily alter the first measure into a minor chord (lowering the third) and you got yourself a main theme in minor without having to alter the rest of the song.

[prophetik music]

same thing as your other thread, brian. roman numerals make this kind of stuff too complex to really see what's happening. it's just pop shit, not real contrapuntal stuff. as a result, you can't really 'analyze' it.

for what it's worth (i'm working from my memory here), the last two chords aren't in the same key as the rest - they're secondary chords. that's not a II (which doesn't exist), but a V/V.

you do know that this is a lot easier to read if you put it down a half step and put it in the key signature of C (even though it's in A), right? like, way easier. you've got the sharps at the end for the secondary chords in E (V/V, V) and that's about it.

[Moseph]

Yay a music theory thread! I have a question to ask you guys.

Down below are the chords for the popular main theme song of Legend of Zelda. I had an argument with this guy, but I'll ask you guys just to be sure. I said it was Bb major (above) and the other guy said it was Bb minor (below). The Bb minor with 5 flats reduces the number of accidentals making it "easier to read". From my point of view I said it was Bb major because it begins in Bb major and later resolves to Bb major again.

Bb: I, v, bVI(3-6), bIII, bII, i, II, V (above)

Bbm: Too lazy to work it out, just look at the pic (below)

So which is it? I find this chord progression fascinating because you can easily alter the first measure into a minor chord (lowering the third) and you got yourself a main theme in minor without having to alter the rest of the song.

I would take the weasel's way out and just say it's in B-flat. It's actually pretty common to have things that have elements of both major and minor. Just notate it how you prefer to read it, and call it what you want to call it; key signature doesn't even necessarily have to reflect the actual key -- it just usually makes it easiest to read when it does.

[Gario]

I see where your friend is arguing from, but I would agree with you - because it started and ended in BbM, I'd say it's functioning in BbM - it isn't at all uncommon even in classical music (well, romantic music, anyhow) to borrow from the parallel minor - it gives some nice spice to the music.

It would be easier to write it in Bbm, but it still functions in BbM. Hey, is that a Neapolitan chord in there? Awesome.

[anosou]

Mixing major/minor is basically how I do music Never hurts to shoot in some chords built on modal scales too. Variation is key for ultimate funnies :3

[Gario]

Cripes, I was going to post something I wrote a while ago that shows the functionality vs ease of reading, but I lost my files for it... I'll need to scan it in order to show it ... and where is that translation, AnSo?

Also, +1000 posts (Megaman is the best)! Woot, now I'ma in the 4 digits - it'll take me ten times longer to get to 5 digits .

[Strike911]

I don't have anything to add as I don't really have the musical knowledge or ability to dissect themes like that, but I just want to say one thing:

I <3 this thread. Insight into the inner working of some of these themes really is eye opening and I honestly feel like I'm learning something.

Nice work.

[Gario]

Oi, OC people! We're going to take a look at one of the most popular video game songs in existence (or at least, one of the best known songs, anyway)...

Ha! If there's any song in the world that is recognizable, it is the Mario Theme! Really, more people know about that in America than our own national anthem (seriously). Why is it so recognizable, though? Why do people remember it so well? Of course, it's been around for ages, but even when it first came out everyone knew the theme. Why is it so easy to remember, and why do we consider it so damn catchy (admit it, you like the song - you just do)?

As anyone will know, repetition does wonders when it comes to trying to remember something - and this song takes full advantage of that fact by using a classic phrase structure called 'Antecedent/Consequence' form throughout the music (as well as using conventional repetitions). Essentially, a musical phrase will play, ending with a 'tension' - this is the 'antecedent' of the phrase. This will be followed by a phrase that is virtually the exact same, except the end of it will resolve the 'tension' - this is the 'consequent'. This engrains the idea of the phrase in the listener's head due to the repetition involved, but it won't sound boring because the context of the two phrases are completely different - one sounds like it's 'asking a question' while the other sounds like it is 'answering the question'.

Listen to the sections at 0:14 - 0:23, 0:33 - 0:42, and 0:52 - 1:01 - these are all examples of 'antecedent/consequent' phrases. Notice that it is, in essence, repeating the material over and over again, but because of the very slight variations in the music it keeps the material fresh. Repetition keeps something in your head, while variation keeps it interesting - Koji Kondo was a genious merging the two so seemlessly, thus making it both catchy and memorable.

Not as long as my normal posts, I admit, but perhaps that's a good thing.

[Nase]

Btw, ever recognised how the noise channel is swinging while the rest isn't? Shnabubula pointed that out to me.

[anosou]

Btw, ever recognised how the noise channel is swinging while the rest isn't? Shnabubula pointed that out to me.

That's fucking sex. I've thought about that a long time. Koji Kondo talked about how he wanted to make some REALLY crazy music to go with the really crazy visuals (at that time). I think he actually succeeded.

Also, nice work Gario

[Gario]

That's fucking sex.

Woa, your right about that. I noticed that the noise had swing, but I didn't even think about the rest of the music being straight. That's a trip and a half.

[JH Sounds]

The fun thing about Mario remixes is that they invariably try to cloak or trim down the antecedent/consequence bits and the repetition.

[Gario]

I don't know, most remixes of the

a

h

seem to follow the structure quite accurately .

Most remixes on OC don't though, of course - we try to mask the effect. For shame.

[Nase]

I don't know, most remixes of the

a

h

seem to follow the structure quite accurately .

Most remixes on OC don't though, of course - we try to mask the effect. For shame.

Awesome, I just created an instant OLRemix by opening 5 of the links simultaneously. Highly recommended.

[Gario]

Yeah, it's a bit late (I took a week off of this thread), but I was busy actually writing music. I have priorities, you know .

Hello, OCR! Once again I'm using a rather general topic rather than a specific game, but it's something that I'm sure many of you can use, so bear with me! It's a common thing with older JRPGs, having peaceful towns that need help or supply you with a place to rest and such. What's so interesting about the town music from older JRPGs? I found that they follow a relatively rigid formula, which one could capitalize on if they need to have good ol' town music in an RPG.

FFV

FFV(2)

It's interesting - I've noticed that many town songs seem to introduce a mellow theme, then follow it up with an elaboration or variation of that calm theme before moving into the 'B' section (the songs above are an example, but there are quite a few more that do this, as well). I won't go so far as to say every JRPG song does this, but I find that a great majority of them seem to do so.

I can't say for sure why this is done (other than because it works ), but if I were to take a guess I'd say it's because the calm, peaceful introduction of the thematic material gives the illusion that the next part is peaceful, as well (which may not be so peaceful in the reiteration, in reality, like the Mario RPG rendition). Also, it is an effective way to extend a track without too much effort. If anyone else has any idea why this works so well, let me know - I'm really curious, and I don't have a definite answer.

Thus, in theory, it would be possible to emulate this effect by doing the same thing yourself when composing a town theme for an old style JRPG. I did just that a few years ago - write a JRPG-style town theme (well, styled to represent a big city, actually) using the technique I explained above and expanding on it. I feel it captures the mood of a city perfectly, partly because it emulated the classic formula so well.

For how rigid it is, you'll probably notice that there is a lot of room for variety, even with such a strict structure. The classic, rustic town is easy to find, but you'll notice that there is room for a royal city theme or even a big modern-city theme to follow this structure with ease. It's quite amazing, but not surprising - composers have written many amazing works using rigid structures and such.

Try it out - you'd be surprised how well this works (and don't forget to share your examples if you do try it ).

[Dj Mokram]

Hey, that's a pretty neat idea! I'll give it a try and tell you how it worked.

Nice analysis, a bit shorter than usual. I see you're targeting a more casual audience now.

[Gario]

Casual? Meh, it just doesn't get into all the technical terminology. It doesn't have to all the time, though - sometimes the most interesting things in music can be explained in simple ways.

Hey, if you write a song with this, DjMokram, share it!

[Sam Ascher-Weiss]

What about the super mario kart town theme?

http://ahimbadam.arnoldascher.com/SMKAtown.mp3

[Gario]

I hate you and your chip-tune abilities... I guess that's the natural reaction of jealousy, though. Sweet song, Sam - I actually thought you were showing music for some secret town in Mario Kart for a split second, lol.

Cool, eh?

[Gario]

Another week, another analysis. Going back to some of the earlier posts, I'm returning to the good ol' limitations of the NES and some of the amazing tricks that were performed with it.

Alright, I personally don't like looking at 'classics', as they get more than enough attention on their own, but damn - this had one hot soundtrack. In particular, I'm looking at this track. Awesome as the beginning of this theme is (I mean, really - it just makes me want to sit down and play it again for the umpteenth time), I'm actually focusing on the ballad that occurs from 0:11 on. I find it interesting that I can hear this as a string orchestra with woodwind embellishments, followed by a brass section reinforcing the theme... Of course, different people hear it different ways, but I doubt anyone back in 1986 actually heard this song as square waves and triangle waves. If the music was good it tended to evoke the sounds of real instruments without being real, but how does the music do that?

Alright, let's break this down to it's parts - this song uses four sound channels (two for rectangle/saw waves, one for a triangle and one for noise), so there is a limit to what it can accomplish (look at the first post for details on the sound channels - the Silver Surfer analysis is all about channel limits). However, listen to the ostinato that begins at 0:11 in the rectangle - you'll notice that it coincides with the triangle wave moving in a similar motion. Also notice that the second rectangle channel hits a third above the triangle (while the other one is hitting a fifth above), but does not continue the ostinato pattern - instead, it's used to emphasise the first beat of each measure (for two measures).

What is significant about that? An ostinato is a very familiar technique used in classical music, so using it in the context of a video game will evoke a classical atmosphere. Using the third to accent the measures instead of the fifth or root actually will leave a 'sonic residue' (I made that term up ) in the listener's mind, so your brain now completes the chord all the way through the ostinato, even if it isn't actually being played anymore. The technique implies an orchestra (for me, or at least something traditional, for most people), and the strikes of the third completes the chord with the listener.

What makes that strike significant, though? It sets us up for when the theme comes in at 0:16 - notice that the strike isn't there anymore, yet our mind still completes the chord. Later in the music this becomes important for emulating an orchestral sound - you'll see .

The melodic theme is interesting, on it's own, as it implies that it is a traditional instrument playing it. The fact that there are neat leaps and scalar runs in the music implies that it music be an instrument and not a voice, and the background ostinato (which is still there, by the way) implies that it should be a traditional instrument (and not electronic), so my mind interprets the melody to be an instrument rather than bleeps (even though it literally is just bleeps).

At 0:19, you'll notice that the second rectangle wave (that normally plays the ostinato with the triangle) drops out to echo the melody. This is also a traditional technique used in classic music called 'Antiphony' - where two separate instruments interact by one playing a line, then getting a response with another instrument. I understand that this is primarily a choral technique, but it is used in the instrumental world, as well, so this further emphasises the fact that this is indeed an instrumental piece, here.

The ostinato is still being implimented throughout, though (and you still hear it even though it's not literally playing except in the triangle), so now there are two techniques being used in the music that is classically instrumental in nature. This evokes a very instrumental feel in music that is made up of bleeps.

It continues in this fashion until it gets to 0:27, where the two rectangles now play a duet. The really cool thing about this part is that while the duet is happening, the ostinato and the antiphony is still happening in the music, either implied or literally. The duet is a highly contrapuntal little deal, which, again, evokes a very traditional feel to the music. This is compounded by the fact that all the other techniques are still being used, so this only furthers the orchestral sound that it has emitted so far.

It's very interesting what the brain will do with music - if it recognises certain patterns from other music it will naturally associate it with that music. It's an interesting process, and I'll note that this doesn't happen with 'classical music', necessarily, even for this particular track - it's simply what I'm familiar with, personally. If you are familiar with a genre of music and an older game tries to emulate the sound by using techniques from the genre, your mind begins to listen to the music as if it was that genre rather than a compilation of bleeps.

It's a very intriguing subject, how the brain interprets music .

[Gario]

Hey everyone, it's been another skipped week... Alas, life happens (in this case, FBRC happened, and it took quite a bit of time to do, too).

Alright, for this week we're going to look at a very famous piece of Gregorian Chant, the

. It's interesting (and ironic) that whenever a composer wants to represent death, often they'll quote this little tune in their music. It's a pretty old tradition (I know it's very blatantly quoted in the final movement of Berlioz's 'Symphony Fantastique' at 3:24 - the whole thing is supposed to be a representation of a satanic black mass), and it never seems to get old.

Ah, not familiar with it? I can assure you that you are - you just don't know it yet. It's been in all sorts of music (like the example above), but is often used in modern music, as well. For example, listen to the background music of Star Wars: A New Hope when Uncle Owen dies - you can hear hte theme play breifly in the background in some of the deeper instruments. It's slipped in there pretty subtly, but it's still there (sorry, I can't find a video of it on Youtube...).

Obviously, as it's the theme of this thread, it has made it's appearances in video games, as well, and in rather subtle (and some not-so-subtle) ways, too. Look at the game 'Gauntlet Legends' for the N64, for example - the entire set of Skorne's Battlefield levels is designed off of variations of that very theme. Every level in that section has music that is based on the Dies Irae in one form or another. The trenches, in particular, simply quotes it note-for-note in the bass, and it's awesome.

Other well known games have introduced this theme into their own soundtrack, as well - listen to FFIX's Caslte Ipsen theme (even Nobuo Uematsu couldn't resist doing it at least once ). The choir plays the Dies Irae underneath the broken title theme played by the flute, showing us that there is something dark about that castle, indeed.

How many places have you heard this theme played in a video game? I'm positive that there are many places that I haven't heard (or have heard, but wasn't aware of the theme at the time of hearing it), and I'm curious when it'll pop up next. To composers and theorists it's a musical game that is constantly being played, much like a musical running gag that only certain people get. Now you get the gag, so go enjoy listening for it in your favorite music .

[Dhsu]

This one's my favorite.

Have you thought about collaborating with Kenley on Into The Score? He does a similar thing with his podcast, and maybe you two could work together to produce a regular segment.

[Gario]

Heh heh heh... nice - it's awesome when you can actually recognize things like this (it goes to show you even remixers here play the Dies Irae game ).

Interesting podcast... I'll be listening to it soon (I didn't know about it). I actually might be interested in collaborating with him, but the guy doesn't seem to have contact information on his page, so I can't get in touch . If I did something with him I would still post here, though - I need to keep my music theory fresh in my mind or else I'll lose it, and this seems to be a very fun way to do it .

[Dhsu]

I believe you can contact Kenley at kenley(at)intothescore(dot)com.