eternal Zero Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hellbringer is a power solo hero. His role is also largely fluid as he can be the semi carry or the support or the ganker. Never underestimate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Panda B-tier? I really don't think so. He has a brutal AOE stun that is perfect after someone like Pesti or Behe initiates in a teamfight. It's also ridiculously amazing early on in a lane with another stun/disable. He scales incredibly well the whole game and has a practically instakill single target disable. Don't forget a blinking, disjointing stun/disable that goes through magic immunity - how could you say that's B-tier?! His only real weaknesses are a crappy attack animation and reliance on mana, but once he gets a Runed Axe his farming ability is off the scale. Get tanking items and he's a fantastic initiator too. Scout as C? Free wards plus excellent ganking, scaling ult, disarm, and AOE silence? He's not a top-tier carry but his new incarnation is very solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal Zero Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 If I had swapped and had Madman that game it would have been my win no questions asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 If my hero weren't disabled by the server every 2 minutes the last few games we might have had a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BardicKnowledge Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Panda's 325 disjoint on Flurry gives him a melee skill at a distance -- I'll vote the middle ground on him and say A-tier. Scout is definitely C though -- even with AoE silence, he remains the ultimate pubstar hero. 10% on the ult is nice, but compared to Thunderbringer, it's terrible. If your team has even one character with dust / gem, then he's useless...assuming that your heroes stick together lategame. Even for ganking solo heroes that are out to far (again, pubstar), Scout doesn't kill as quickly as Sand Wraith will lategame -- and Wraith doesn't have to quit farming to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 If you're going to soft-ban tempest, jereziah and arachna because they're near impossible to counter for newer people, you should definitely add sandwraith to that list. He's completely unstoppable lategame unless he got ganked a LOT early on, which is kind of hard to pull off for the teams with newer people in our inhouse games due to his escape mechanisms. Impossible to counter him when half of your team keeps on laning obliviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BardicKnowledge Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Arachna doesn't need a ban IMO -- she's very easy to play against in a 5v5 game. 3v3, when you get into 1v1 fights more often, she's better, but still not anywhere near as good as Succubus. Similarly, Wraith is absolutely terrible early game, and has poor HP for the entire match. Instead of banning individual heroes, IMO what needs to change is people's general playstyle. Don't solo lane after people start ganking -- and if you do get ganked once, learn and don't get ganked again in the same match. If this means that you can't farm and have to sit there until we defend, so be it. This also applies to jungling -- you are NOT safe there (unless you're well warded) after everyone hits level 10 or so. Jungle heroes tend to think that they can safely ignore the entire rest of the match until they emerge as this god at level 17...which is completely untrue. Don't ban heroes -- fix your lousy playstyle so you aren't rocked a million different ways. The ONLY skills worth considering for a ban are Tempest and Jereziah ults...but even they can be planned around by superior strategy and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well I'm personally against banning any heroes, just saying that if you're going to ban certain heroes because at our level of play we can't counter them, sandwraith definitely fits the bill. The difference between sandwraith and many other carries is that he has very good escape mechanisms, making it hard to gank unless you chain-disable him with several heroes so he has no chance escaping. I have no trouble playing a roaming hero setting up ganks on other carries by myself, with maybe the support of a laner from my team that happens to be around, but I believe that to take out sandwraith, or jungle tempest, you're going to need at least 2-3 people on your team that can coordinate well enough to gank. We rarely get this luxury in inhouse games, where I see most new players staying in lane/jungle forever even when they're not carrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Don't ban, lrn2play. Also, picking Arachna will probably still be frowned upon and I'm cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't support a ban of Aracha. Tempest and Jera are the only ones who I think are just too powerful. To counter Tempest you need lots of stuns, superior map awareness, and excellent playing (avoiding getting clustered, warding his jungle, etc.) which too many of our players are incapable of doing. It's too hard to counter him. Likewise with Jeraziah. His nukeheal is tremendously powerful but he FORCES you to get a Nullfire, and even then, he can use the bubble so frequently it's not even a true counter (and it doesn't help with his brutal heal or ult.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Don't ban, lrn2play. Also, picking Arachna will probably still be frowned upon and I'm cool with that. Well, I really don't think the issue is that, say, either me or zircon can't play against Tempest or Jera, because I will always be the guy farming up the nullfire or getting the wards if I'm playing the appropriate hero for it. The problem is even when you have 2 decent people on your team, you will NOT be able to coordinate well enough to counter certain heroes effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal Zero Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Whoever played Arachna last night at mid let's me think that keeping Arachna is fine. At this point you guys don't abuse her carapace so in that sense she is a perfectly acceptable hero. Tempest I can agree with soft bannning. Jera not so much. He's annoying but he isn't gamebreaking to someone like me. I still say we should start limiting the amount of carries a team is allowed to pick. At this level a lot of you think you can carry and play well because nobody will challenge you early game when it matters. You're not getting any better for it. This applies a lot to guys like Relyance with Torturer, Zircon with Soulstealer, Bardic with Wildsoul, etc. Nobody forces you out of lane or causes you to buy anything that isn't in your main build because you just need the HP or armor to survive. I'm not saying you guys aren't improving with these heroes but you should not be getting the success that you are when you mass these carries onto a team because the amount of coordination necessary for ending a game before the 30 minute mark (without concede) is beyond the scope of this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 i played arachna mid last night, and i purposefully play her in a way that isn't fagtardedly broken so there can be a normal game as opposed to ruining a game by lane-hop hero killing at level 5 by the way, would it be ok if, if you do invite your friends zero, that they play on separate teams? our inhouses have enough balance issues as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal Zero Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Also another thing I meant to mention was that Zircon specifically asked about this. He wanted to be more competitive and feel like he was a force instead of feeling like a "farmed" carry who can't do enough to win a game. You don't get to this level if your team is consistently filled with carries so that it doesn't matter how you do in lane because just someone on your team is bound to buy you enough time to be useful. i played arachna mid last night, and i purposefully play her in a way that isn't fagtardedly broken so there can be a normal game as opposed to ruining a game by lane-hop hero killing at level 5by the way, would it be ok if, if you do invite your friends zero, that they play on separate teams? our inhouses have enough balance issues as it is. While most of them won't want to play against me the only one that absolutely cannot is vel0city (or his main account, jsat) because he is quite literally three feet away from me in the same room. Otherwise I'm perfectly fine with it. Also with Arachna it doesn't matter if you don't want to do too well but you have to get at least one level of carapace when anyone on the opposing team has any kind of debuff. (Especially Hellbringer who has 3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 yeah so we just a played an inhouse and didn't have a 9th person. We started 4v5, me donut zealousy and tensei on the 4 team, thinking "hey its just for fun anyway". the other team rolls Hellbringer, Pebbles, Succubus, Wildsoul, and nymphora. IN A FRICKIN 5v4. think i'm done playing inhouses for a while PS: NO, i don't want to hear any jacktards whine about "drama". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BardicKnowledge Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Just wanna point out that you sure as hell weren't complaining about the game being "unfair" when you started 9 kills up on us. If you had wanted a remake at the start for balance I would have been fine with it. No one should complain just because they lost though -- poor form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuketheXjesse Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 We also could have remade the game from the very beginning. If there was a REAL problem, it would have been pointed out before the game started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 remake wouldn't have passed, stop talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan The Politician Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I've been playing a little bit of the current competitor of this game, League of Legends. It's a bit too colorful for my tastes, and I honestly have a hard time telling what is going on between those bright colors and equally-colorful spell effects. Are there any beta keys still floating around for HoN that I could use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal Zero Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Across all of my alts I'm sure to have some lying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Across all of my alts I'm sure to have some lying around. I'd be interested as well, if anyone has a key for me. I play a bit of DotA occasionally so I should get the hang of it rather quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal Zero Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 PM me your emails if you need a key. I'll oblige you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Zero, you should be a bit more fair to some of us... I'm pretty sure we are capable of ending a game before 30 mins. The reason why some of us tend to play carries is that we don't trust our lesser-experienced OCR guys to do that. What's the point of playing the perfect Accursed or Shaman if the guy playing Madman has no idea how to farm, what items to get or how to play him properly? It's better to have a crappy support character than a crappy carry, IMO. I remember a game recently where I was Slither and Bardic was Valk and we ended it pretty early thanks to our shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal Zero Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Then my suggestion is stop playing to ensure a win and instead focus on making yourself a better player because I honestly think the other way is a waste of time. I mean think of the last time I picked Madman on purpose in an inhouse with you guys. I just random because even though I may get a crap hero I can work on last hitting, learning new tricks with each hero, and learning how to fight and maintain a losing lane. Yeah I totally get the whole "load up on carries" mentality but that's not going to benefit anyone in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tran! Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Zero, you're talking like anyone playing in the clan will want to move on to be 'pros'. People will play what they like, and those of us who have a 'must be the best at everything' mentality, we'll try out different heroes. They won't. It's not a big deal. For the level most are at, they seem to have fun. It's only the SUPER SERIOUS people who tend to get aggravated. Also, not everyone has a "I must win to have fun" mindset. I know quite a few people who just love playing with their friends, win or lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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