zircon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 First and foremost Scout is still a shit hero. Any "rework" is a waste of time. The other day I went up against a good Scout. I was playing Magebane and was equally farmed, but he ripped me to shreds 1v1 thanks to his insane attack speed and disarm. The rest of his team wasn't that great, but his use of AOE silences and disarm was crazy. With a Riftshards and Brutalizer, he was doing 1k crits by lategame. Why exactly is a rework a waste? He has the best invis in the game, arguably (+200 attack speed for 4 attacks is nuts), a disabling crit, free wards that double as AOE silence spells in teamfights, and a massive range scaling ult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'm tired of playing HoN and teambased games in general when nobody works together or listens. It's too much stress & frustration just watching problems with easy fixes cause you to die. I have 0 incentive to work as a team or even want to play when people just leave me or the rest of the team to dry because they don't grasp the importance or an action that usually doesn't require much thinking or difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Yeah, still getting the hang of Portal Key. I have a hard time visualizing its max range, so I often end up being nowhere close to the enemy heroes. Would be easier if it just triggered when you're in range of the target location IMO. Does it go through trees/terrain btw? Also why did they bother giving Elemental Void a cast range? Waste of a click... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The other day I went up against a good Scout. I was playing Magebane and was equally farmed, but he ripped me to shreds 1v1 thanks to his insane attack speed and disarm. The rest of his team wasn't that great, but his use of AOE silences and disarm was crazy. With a Riftshards and Brutalizer, he was doing 1k crits by lategame. Why exactly is a rework a waste? He has the best invis in the game, arguably (+200 attack speed for 4 attacks is nuts), a disabling crit, free wards that double as AOE silence spells in teamfights, and a massive range scaling ult. 1 on 1 is exactly how you do NOT want to engage scout. He's an anti-carry, so of course he'll make short work of you with disarm+basher. The only carries I would even try that with are Chronos and Pestilence, due to the long stuns/bash. Aside from the short AoE silence, scout is nearly useless in teambattles and I'd prefer having a wretched hag or tree on my team to having a scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-wix Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Aside from the short AoE silence, scout is nearly useless in teambattles and I'd prefer having a wretched hag or tree on my team to having a scout. It's true that hag and tree have more 'teamfriendly' abilities, but scout, especially late-game straight up destroys people because of his rework. I can't possibly comprehend how you can call him nearly useless. I think people underestimate his Ulti too. Does it go through trees/terrain btw? Yea, it totally does and thats typically one of the best uses of the portal key. It's a good escape mechanic when you see people coming, remember that if a player hits your character, you suffer a 3 second cooldown before you can use it, so its better to 'bamf' before they get close. The other use is to initiate with someone like Legionaire, you bamf next to someone, or into a group of people and trigger some sort've stun or game-altering ability before anyone has a chance to react, its a great item. And Zircon, for what its worth i think your Behemoth suggestion has merit. That being said, i think the current Behe is pretty respectable, his fissure is amazing and yes, I do think it's possible to overpower one ability in certain ways to help balance a character, Keeper of the Forest is a great example, without his amazing ulti, he would be really bad, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiator Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I hate to say this, but I actually enjoy playing the tree. I can't do much killing (and that's what everyone likes to do), but I enjoy running my ass all over the map laying down eyes and then camo'ing other players. Also, working up to a resto stone and doing the double root in a team fight is fantastic. Especially seeing as how I'm not much threat most of the game, so no one targets me early (and I don't blame them). Abyssal skull is also nice on this guy (again, because I'm usually the last to go, even when I run in the middle of the fight and throw down root). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 It's true that hag and tree have more 'teamfriendly' abilities, but scout, especially late-game straight up destroys people because of his rework. I can't possibly comprehend how you can call him nearly useless. I think people underestimate his Ulti too. No. He destroys people one on one (and only squishy DPS carries at that), and that's the extent of his late-game power. Too bad for him that lategame nobody will be soloing. A Scout is completely useless against a competent team even WITHOUT dust of revelation. I consider having a scout on my team a massive disadvantage, whereas having him on the enemy team will mean we're playing 5v4 most of the time. If you wanna argue he's good for your team because of the AoE silence, let me introduce you to this hero called Defiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 If you're only counting his utility in teamfights, I don't think that is necessarily reasonable. There is more to a character than what they do in mid/lategame teamfights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Scout is notoriously bad inlane as well. The time of the game where I think he's *arguably* at his best is early-midgame where he will have lots of chances to gank people who remain in lane, though his DPS will still be quite low. Except taking the gold from ganks will not do his team a lot of of good because even a farmed up scout will not be dominant in lategame. Also I can name like 20 heroes of the top of my head that are at least on par with scout in early ganks but also have uses in lategame teamfights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BardicKnowledge Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 If you're planning to backdoor though, none do it better than Scout. Considering that it's a viable strategy, it's something to be considered. So if he sucks at teamfights, every time the two teams clash they lose a tower? Seems good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 With a Brutalizer he really is a force to be reckoned with; there's something to be said for "precision elimination" heroes. Nothing is more frustrating than preparing to enter a teamfight and getting killed by Scout in 2 seconds. He's also one of the best at cleaning up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Seems to me he'd be a decent anti-jungler. Usually they'll already be missing some health from neutrals and with wards and eyes in the right places he can make sure they never keep their hard-earned gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battousai Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Please stop making it seem like playing scout is a good idea. You're just encouraging more people to decide poorly and pick scout. That is the last thing I want to see, given that he appears in EVERY public ap game I have played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 No j00!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuketheXjesse Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Please stop making it seem like playing scout is a good idea. You're just encouraging more people to decide poorly and pick scout. That is the last thing I want to see, given that he appears in EVERY public ap game I have played. Seriously. Also, Maliken is a real bastard if used correctly,as we learned yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Yeah, still getting the hang of Portal Key. I have a hard time visualizing its max range, so I often end up being nowhere close to the enemy heroes. Would be easier if it just triggered when you're in range of the target location IMO. Does it go through trees/terrain btw?Also why did they bother giving Elemental Void a cast range? Waste of a click... Btw, it wasn't just you that post was aimed at - there were multiple instances yesterday that just frustrated me to no end, part of it due to stupid pubs. This is exactly why I despise pub games, in addition to the douches in pubs, and rather keep games to exclusively in house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I feel like we should play a scrim sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Btw, it wasn't just you that post was aimed at - there were multiple instances yesterday that just frustrated me to no end, part of it due to stupid pubs. This is exactly why I despise pub games, in addition to the douches in pubs, and rather keep games to exclusively in house. True, I doubt we would've won even if we switched. Not to mention after the first few genocides in our favor, I started being a big target for ganks, and there was nothing anyone else could do because when Pharaoh wants you dead you are dead. This would've been mitigated by wards, and our Scout was pretty decent at that TBH, but we still didn't have enough map coverage to avoid getting ganked over and over. And it doesn't help that we chased and/or got baited like retards on multiple occasions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I feel like we should play a scrim sometime. We'd be stomped though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Seriously.Also, Maliken is a real bastard if used correctly,as we learned yesterday. are we referring to my play of mali or someone else you played yesterday that raped with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I clicked on this thread for the first time. Can someone give me a rundown that's a bit more detailed than "like DOTA but better"? I've never played DOTA but from what I hear, it's a tower defense game so I'm presuming that this is one too. Does it require DOTA to play? Wikipedia says it's "upcoming DotA Based Game" so I'm guessing that it's a Warcraft III mod. There's no info about this on their official site unfortunately. Also it seems that open beta registration is closed or something Sorry for the noob questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhsu Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dota HoN is actually a stand-alone game. The reason it was developed in the first place was to get around the limitations of the WC3 engine. It does have some tower defense elements, but I would say the main feature and draw is the team-based combat. I haven't played World of WarCraft, but I hear it's very similar to the PvP in that game. If you need a beta invite, I think Genoism was offering to pull some strings to get them to people who wanted them. Or you can pre-purchase in the next 12 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuketheXjesse Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 are we referring to my play of mali or someone else you played yesterday that raped with him? someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battousai Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Awful game on my part. Don't know why I picked Defiler. The last game I had with her I did great, which might have led me to think I could repeat. Bad choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Defiler has been quite nerfed with the changes to enhanced marchers, behemoth's heart and sacrificial stone, which were all core items on her. She's probably best off soloing mid, and runewhoring like crazy. Her main weakness is that she's slow and weak early on. The lack of escape mechanisms means she's usually a bad choice for a side lane since she's much more vulnerable to getting ganked there and has limited access to runes. In mid, on the other hand, she can rape. Her nuke has a huge range and can be used to harass and last hit at the same time. 2-3 hits with it on the enemy hero can already force him back to heal. Very dependent on runewhoring obviously, but if you actually manage to kill the enemy in mid, you can immediately push down the tower with your ult, after which you're free to roam and set up ganks in other lanes. Considering all this, I wouldn't suggest picking her unless you can ensure a mid position for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts