As of yet unnamed 'Bob-Omb Battlefield' remix...

[SpeedyDVV]

Haven't been on OCR for awhile.. gotta catch up with my downloading..

Ah, but that's not what this topic is about.. I kind of made this little remix for fun, to kind of cheer someone up.. and a friend of mine advised me to submit it to OCR.

Now, I personally know better than to charge in head-long, so I read around the submissions and all, and I think this track is eligible for submission.. (okay, so it still lacks a title, but that's a small detail.)

Even so, I doubt the quality is good enough, but still. Perhaps I can edit it slightly and still submit it afterwards... :S

Anyway, comments and criticism please, on the following song:

Bob-Omb Battlefield Remix

-----

Since the old links were all broken, none of the links further on will work, unless the post is from 2016 or onward.
Use these instead:

Bob-Omb Battlefield v2

Bob-Omb Battlefield v3

Bob-Omb Battlefield v4

Bob-Omb Battlefield v5

Bob-Omb Battlefield v6

MMXI release of Bob-Omb Battlefield

Edited August 8, 2016 by SpeedyDVV
All the links were broken, fixed them

[Monobrow]

Haha, this is crazy.

First, is that kit that muffled by choice?

I think it may be a good starting kit, but I think you should switch it up with another kit (or add another, less muffled kit in) at around :34

I like your synths... But the delay is killing me. They are stabby, so why put confusing delay all over them? Why not instead, keep the cool thing you have going with them, their strength (the cool fast attack and quirkiness of them) and take off that delay. If you want that atmosphere, put it in the background with other synths that are different from your leads... This will keep that wet sound you are going for, but without the confusion and crazy (not in a good way)

This song is hilarious btw, I am laughing... You captured the mood really well... It's just the execution needs some work.

As you go on, don't keep the same lead throughout the whole song, add other elements, other instruments, other synths, anything. Think wacky and crazy. After about the 1 minute mark, this song starts to get dull on the ears, because we as the listener are too used to it.

The song needs contrast. It needs some breaks, and it needs some more fresh air after a while.

Hope this helps.

[SpeedyDVV]

Ahaha, I think you have me confused with someone who actually knows what you're talking about.. XD

I'm a remixing rookie, I'm afraid.

Anyway.. I've tried to fix it around a bit, and added an extra drumkit (it took me ages to find out you meant the drums when you said 'kit', and I still dont know if that's really what you're looking for XD) and made the synths a bit longer making them overlap with the next notes..

Whether this is what you meant, I dont know, but I've come up with the next edition:

Bob-Omb Battlefield v2

You can probably hear the extra synths I've added to experiment, but I dunno, I dont think they work out very well.. also, I kind of suck at 'going crazy'.. :S

I've tried to be a bit original and add a few extra notes here and there, but whenever I listened to it, it just felt out of place in the song and took them out again..

This song is hilarious btw, I am laughing... You captured the mood really well... It's just the execution needs some work.

You know, this kind of means my mission's already complete.. the song WAS made to cheer someone up, and if you're laughing then I suppose it's already awesome, no?

[Monobrow]

Yeah dude, I meant drumkit :J

First, no I didn't want you to make the synths longer, I actually like how they were short and stabby.

What I DID want you to do was to turn off the delay effect on them (the echo)... They don't need it IMO. Since you are new to this, just search around on whatever synth you are using for a "delay" effect, and turn it off, or mess around with it to make it a LOT less prominent.

Sorry for assuming you knew what I was talking about though, yeah it can be confusing for someone new to this, with all these terms (I was new once too so I know what it's like to be on the outside looking in on all this stuff)

I like the newer kit. A trick you could use is, when you get to a part of the song that is more exciting or climatic (like I said at :34) you could possibly layer two drums on top of each other, not like copying and pasting the exact notes from one drum channel to another, but using both and integrating them together to become a bigger whole. Also layering snares and highats etc. can add emphasis as well.

I also think your drumkit needs some Equalization and Compression, which are effects you can use on them through the fx channels (what program or DAW are you using?)... This can help you bring out the drums so they aren't so drowned out. Also some EQ on your synths could help give the rest of the instruments you use (in general this is always a good thing, to leave some room in the "mix") to keep things from getting too muddy and drowning out things in the background.

You basically want everything to sound loud and clear, and flow well. Good luck.

[Spakku]

Yeah, stabby's definitely better for this. Sounds way happier, despite the violent-sounding name.

A little more variation would do it a world of good. Despite the electronic arrangement it sticks to the source something fierce.

[SpeedyDVV]

Ahh, there's some advice I could use. Alright, I'll be working on this then.

What I DID want you to do was to turn off the delay effect on them (the echo)... They don't need it IMO. Since you are new to this, just search around on whatever synth you are using for a "delay" effect, and turn it off, or mess around with it to make it a LOT less prominent.

Heh, I'm listening to an experiment while typing this, and.. it does indeed sound a bit better, although the music has a bit of a choppy feel to it.. I think it might be my computer though, since alot of songs have been 'choppy' until it was properly rendered. I'll hear it once it's rendered.

Sorry for assuming you knew what I was talking about though, yeah it can be confusing for someone new to this, with all these terms (I was new once too so I know what it's like to be on the outside looking in on all this stuff)

Haha, naw, it's alright. To be honest, I kind of expected someone to come out and hit me with all these advance terms, so I had a good friend waiting for your post- his name is Google, heard of it? Just kidding there.. I'm already glad someone came and actually replied to my topic.

I like the newer kit. A trick you could use is, when you get to a part of the song that is more exciting or climatic (like I said at :34) you could possibly layer two drums on top of each other, not like copying and pasting the exact notes from one drum channel to another, but using both and integrating them together to become a bigger whole.

I also think your drumkit needs some Equalization and Compression, which are effects you can use on them through the fx channels... This can help you bring out the drums so they aren't so drowned out. Also some EQ on your synths could help give the rest of the instruments you use (in general this is always a good thing, to leave some room in the "mix") to keep things from getting too muddy and drowning out things in the background.

Hrm, I'll have to try it. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'layering the drums', but I think I've got a general idea...

(what program or DAW are you using?)

Fruity Loops 8. Thinking of getting 9, but after I found out some of my favorite instruments had changed between 7 and 8, I'm starting to doubt this idea.

A little more variation would do it a world of good. Despite the electronic arrangement it sticks to the source something fierce.

My problem is really that I'm the kind of guy that's better at 're-doing' something than actually changing it.. the biggest difference between this and the original song is the synths.. :S

But I'm going to try nonetheless, thanks for all the advice.. I'll post this 'third edition' once it's done.

Add: I haven't yet done anything with the drums, but I've already removed the delay from the synths and removed the useless extra's (you could barely hear them anyway.. :S)

Bob-Omb Battlefield v3

[SpeedyDVV]

Life got in the way. I have still not done anything with the drums.

I've made the lead louder, though. Is that what you wanted, dPaladin?

Bob-Omb Battlefield v4

[Emunator]

Your link is broken, can you reupload? (possibly to a more reliable server like Tindeck or this.)

[SpeedyDVV]

Your link is broken, can you reupload? (possibly to a more reliable server like Tindeck or this.)

I mistyped the URL. I have no idea how that 'y' ended up in the place of the '4', but the upload was good and the file was there.

No need to bash my own hosting because of a mistype. I fixed the URL, so you can click it now.

[Kinslayer]

Not bad, love the instrumentals, however, don't forget to add some original interpretation to the music, otherwise it'll never end up posted on the site...you could definitely get a good solo on it...so keep up the good work...I'll keep my eyes and ears on this one.

[Emunator]

This version's defintiely an improvement, but there's still a handful of gnawing issues that are holding it down, mostly on the arrangement side of things.

The lack of compression/punch on your drums has been pointed out already, but I'm not sure if it's been mentioned that you use the same drum loop for the entire song. Switching up the loops a bit and expanding on the drumwork as you progress through the song would really help bring up the intensity later on. The stuttering drums worked in the intro so maybe you could try employing a similar effect later in the song.

As for the synth writing, it sticks pretty close to the original which isn't exactly kosher by OCR standards. Arranging the melody to make a bit more unique or personalized, or even some soloing at the climax of the song would not only bring this more into ReMix territory, but also make the song more interesting and less repetitive.

The last thing that stuck out to me was the lack of bass on the song - I can tell you've got a synth playing a bass part, but it's really quiet and leaves that end of the frequency spectrum feeling rather empty.

Not bad work overall, this definitely captures the cheery, punchy essence of the source tune. Just fine tune some of the things mentioned above and try to make the arrangement side of it feel a bit more personalized, and I think this would work a lot better as a ReMix. Keep at it!

[SpeedyDVV]

I've yet to actually satisfy all opinions with a change, but..

There's definately a large number of changes in here..

Bob-Omb Battlefield v5

I've added another drumline, added an additional synth that plays a little different from the others, and increased the bass volume as well as adding another synth as bass.

I need idea's on how to be more creative in this process.. I thoroughly fail at that point, and it's sticking really close to the original still.

[Orpheon]

I've got to say, this tempo is perfect - always felt Bom-Omb Battlefield should be played this fast, and you've nailed that part.

This stands out as a spectacular arrangement - yet as you've pointed out it's the remix department which needs a good revisit.

Look at the beginning of your track, that usually shapes the flow of the rest of the piece - if you can think of an original beginning and then slowly weave this great source re-arrangement in and out - that'd make a great transition, leading into a proper remix.

[SpeedyDVV]

..Believe it or not, but the last 4 months, I have in fact been messing around with this song.

But whatever I do, it seems that my newbie status is not outgrown as of yet.

I'm stuck with no inspiration for changing the drums AT ALL.

As for remixing, I'm already very proud at what I've thusfar accomplished.

While I've had some ideas left and right, most of them failed.. (though I got a nice little other track from those experiments.)

If anything, I guess I'll just stay the unknown 'remixer/remaker' I've thusfar been.

I encourage people to try my latest remakes, 'Eolis' and 'Overworld', both from the NES game Faxanadu.

I think they're awesome. Comment away if you must, but I doubt I'll be really editing them. I just really like remixing/remaking.

If it isn't OC-standards, then so be it.

[Emunator]

That's totally fine, you shouldn't expect yourself to be at OCR-level right off the bat. Most artists spend years and years trying to reach that level, so I'm glad that you're not discouraged from making more stuff.

I'd chalk this up to a learning experience - it's not bad, but you've got lots of room to improve as well. So keep laying down the music and you'll work your way up there in due time Thanks for coming to the workshop forums, hopefully we were able to help give you some direction on what to work on with future mixes!

[SpeedyDVV]

Heh, I've already come a LOOONG way. I've had some bad remixes in the past..

These weren't my FIRST remixes, and definately wont be the last.

[ExtremeYoshiFan]

Man, This is really good. I have saved this already, I may make it my ringtone, I do need a new one. It is great, when will you submit, I like this, especially the fast paced tempo. I have a name too(although a very bad one), "Time Bob-omb's Lair"

[SpeedyDVV]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but yes that name indeed sucks.

Anyway, I dont know if I'm going to submit it at all. If the locals have trouble with it, most likely so will the judges.

..Ofcourse, I suppose there's worse crap being submitted, so one more wouldn't hurt.. would it?

If anything, I'd still need a title.

[ExtremeYoshiFan]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but yes that name indeed sucks.

Anyway, I dont know if I'm going to submit it at all. If the locals have trouble with it, most likely so will the judges.

..Ofcourse, I suppose there's worse crap being submitted, so one more wouldn't hurt.. would it?

If anything, I'd still need a title.

I took about 2 seconds to get that name, I really didn't think hard, here is another name i will just throw out: "The First Portrait". Submit this remix, I feel it will fare well, although I don't think you should use this name either.

[Emunator]

I can pretty much guarantee you it won't get past the judges panel :\ The drums are kinda looped and the production is not at OCR level. You did a good job making the song listenable and ironed out the most glaring flaws so that this song is enjoyable to a casual listener, but if we're being honest I think you've got a bit of a way to go in terms of arrangement, sound choices, and production before you've really got a chance against the panel.

[SpeedyDVV]

How fortunate that my songs ARE aimed at the 'casual listener'.

To be honest, that's what I think is what OCRemix is lacking nowadays. There are quite some awesome remixes in there, but there's alot of those that are more 'art' than awesome.

Kind of makes me depressed, knowing that these kind of remixes will probably never stand a chance unless they stand out.

[Emunator]

You should look into submitting to R:TS if you're looking for a reputable site with a lower bar than OCR. It gets a good amount of traffic and is a great way to get your music out there that might not necessarily be suited for OCR

[SpeedyDVV]

Wow, *cough*, the dust here is baaad.. maybe I should've returned sooner than WELL OVER SIX YEARS LATER..

So, what happened after Emunator's comment:

First off, I didn't submit it to R:TS. Maybe I should have, maybe I shouldn't have, in the end I didn't. I followed my own path..  and got absolutely nowhere.

Which was fine- I was remixing for my own fun anyway, and just wanted to share it with the world.. which I have. A bunch of my remixes are on YouTube, and one of them even got picked for a GaijinGoombah video.. though the credits were like .001 second on screen >_>;..

A few months after posting v5, I made a v6 and then didn't really bother with it again until I 'released' my MMXI album- that's roman numerals for 2011, not Mega Man X1 :P-  and later on an album with 'deleted tracks'... even released a thing with from-scratch tracks on bandcamp! But well, that's not what the topic is about, so.. yeah.

I just kinda wanted to give an update on how things are going. For the v6 I mentioned, see here: Bob-Omb Battlefield v6 and for the MMXI release, have a YouTube link: MMXI release of Bob-Omb Battlefield

The rest of the links in the topic are broken- I switched domains from .nl to .net and had to throw around a lot.. the opening post has all working links, in case old versions are still interesting.

 

And uh.. final word is that I'm giving it one final one-over. A 2016 edition, so to speak.. I don't think I'm changing much from the MMXI version, since I personally loved it, but I intend to throw the 2016 version at the judges, even if I pretty much know it won't succeed.. but hey, if I don't even give it a shot, I'd regret that forever, right?

[Gario]

Welp, that's what Mod Evals are for, eh? Also, as much as I love R:TS (submit about five songs there, myself), they've been down for about two months now. I've got to get in touch with the head peeps there and see what's up, but it's not looking good lately. Anyhoo, I'll give you a forecast on it, and can let you know how I'll handle it if it gets to the panel. Perks of a mod eval judge.

EVAL

Well, it's a very solid recreation of the original - I think you nailed it, note for note. Regardless of the quality otherwise, one quirk of OCR is that they, as a rule, require reinterpretation of the source. There's nothing wrong with a good, solid remake of a song in itself, but OCR will likely reject this straight out due to how close it follows the source. I always like to remind people that this does not mean something is inherently bad because it conservatively follows the source; it's just one of the things that OCR requires of the songs it posts.

Now, that being said, I'll give some other advice on production and such to help you out for future arrangements. As far as instruments go, I could see them working out okay, but they do get a little boring after some time. The same synths play throughout the track - I think even the source had more variety in instrumentation with the synths and brass. Be sure for your next production to experiment with changing the instrumentation up a little as the piece moves forward, as that can help stretch an arrangement without having the listener fatigue on listening to the instrumentation.

I like the chords that you play in the background with that synth at 0:07 (as well as throughout the song) - I think that gives this a more ragtime feel than the source had. Be sure to take elements like that, though, and mix them in such a way that they don't dominate the track, though. It's difficult to hear the themes that are supposed to carry a track when the harmonies are that loud, in comparison. As a rule of thumb, bring your melodies and themes out in a mix so they're the cleanest and clearest, followed by interesting textures, finally with basic chords safely in the background. It's a basic organization, but it keeps the melodic hooks in the front, the interesting textures within listening reach and the harmonies set firmly in the background. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions, but it's a great starting point, as far as making a solidly mixed track.

The drums are dry, but they're not bad. The dry-ness is in comparison to how wet your other instruments are; the synths all have a decent amount of reverb on them, while the drums sound like they're from another recording completely. When you have multiple things going on at once in an arrangement, be sure to make it sound like they're being played all in the same conditions, all at once. In this case, either the reverb of the synths should match the drums (not recommended), or the drums should have a little reverb to match the synths. Blending is key, so when instruments don't blend they sound out of place.

I hear a synth bass in this, but it's a little bit weak in the bass department. Bass is one of the most important instruments in an arrangement, as it gives a song some grounding to play off of. The bass in this case is quiet, and is lacking in bass EQ. More bass EQ! More presence! YEAH!

One final aspect to this is that the middle EQ range feels a little incomplete. The chords that play throughout the track normally would fill the role of filling that EQ space, but in this case the instrument sounds like it fills the upper range of the EQ, instead. This makes the arrangement sound a little bit hollow, so for any other arrangement you go for I do suggest taking a look at using instruments that fill the middle range of the EQ a bit more solidly.

I'll be honest and say it's probably not getting to the panel, due to how conservative it is (again, nothing wrong with that, just something OCR won't accept), but if it were to get to the panel that's what advice I'd give on this track. I understand you probably won't work on this (it's six years old, after all - you've probably improved considerably since then), but I thought you'd appreciate a more full rundown on the track.

I do hope you stick around and contribute more to the forums here, though - people like you are the lifeblood of the WIP boards, after all.

EDIT: I'm aware this wasn't tagged for eval, but considering the intent of the final post in here I thought it would be appropriate, anyhow. Just the way I am, sometimes.

[timaeus222]

Pretty much agreed with Gario, but here are my main thoughts.

Yep, follows the original really closely. Cool cover, but a few crits of interest about it:

• The accompaniment is louder than the leads, so the accompaniment could be brought down in volume. In general, something consistently playing chords (and not, say, melodies) should not be the loudest if there is also a melody going on. Try setting the accompanying instruments' volumes to 0, and then slowly raising them until they sound like they're backing up the leads, but not overtaking them.
• The mix overall is a bit crowded (loud/cluttered), but I'm guessing you aren't using a Limiter? A Limiter would catch your loud instruments and keep them from getting too loud. Some, however, could push your instruments down too much, giving you what's called "overcompression". In principle, this video can help you detect that, if you've heard of it. If you use a 32-bit DAW that can run VST plugins, then TLs-Pocket Limiter is a great free limiter that doesn't do that. Just be sure to lower the volume of each individual instrument, rather than simply the Master track's volume slider, as that way, the volume is lowered *before* it gets limited by the Limiter, not *after*.

Pretty much after these main points are touched on, I think it'll be even more accessible to the 'casual listener'.