Super Street Fighter IV

[zircon]

Man not having played grapplers much I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how to 360 properly if I'm being rushed down. Seems like most characters can, against my Hakan, just rush him down because they have frame advantage even on jabs. I can be spamming my reversal 360 and because the motion causes me to stop blocking I'll end up eating more of the combo or some stupid shit like that. On the other hand, whenever *I* try to rush down a grappler I get my ass kicked and get thrown out of anything I do. What gives? Hakan's throw range kinda blows but that doesn't explain how I seem to have such a hard time inputting the motion while getting rushed down (or how to deal with people mixing in jumps with their rushdown.) So damn frustrating. I felt like breaking my controller at least 10 times today.

[Tinus]

Hakan's throw range kinda blows

Clearly you need more oil

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure you're better with grapplers than me so take any of my advice with a grain of salt.

I do know that 360 motions seem to be a lot easier to input in the Street Fighter 4 series than in older games. By this I mean I can now do them at all. Street Fighter 4 was the first game in which I had fun playing Zangief.

I can be spamming my reversal 360 and because the motion causes me to stop blocking I'll end up eating more of the combo or some stupid shit like that.

Wait, isn't the point of reversals to have finished inputting the motion before you've gotten up? Blocking shouldn't be a factor at all. Or did you mean counter instead of reversal?

I felt like breaking my controller at least 10 times today.

An obvious question maybe, but have you considered getting a stick? One of the main things a stick has seemed to help me with is the speed of inputting Zangief's 360 motions.

[DarkeSword]

your a Dick you know that

Stop that, please.

[Jhawk]

it's all in good fun

[zircon]

Clearly you need more oil

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure you're better with grapplers than me so take any of my advice with a grain of salt.

I do know that 360 motions seem to be a lot easier to input in the Street Fighter 4 series than in older games. By this I mean I can now do them at all. Street Fighter 4 was the first game in which I had fun playing Zangief.

Wait, isn't the point of reversals to have finished inputting the motion before you've gotten up? Blocking shouldn't be a factor at all. Or did you mean counter instead of reversal?

An obvious question maybe, but have you considered getting a stick? One of the main things a stick has seemed to help me with is the speed of inputting Zangief's 360 motions.

I already have a stick. I know the motion isn't that hard to input overall, and I can easily do it in practice mode, but the issue is when I'm getting rushed down and I want to throw them out of a block string. It's really frustrating because AS I'm inputting the motion I stop blocking and I get my ass kicked.

[BardicKnowledge]

Almost 2000 BP here, looking forward to being C+ instead of C.

[The Derrit]

I already have a stick. I know the motion isn't that hard to input overall, and I can easily do it in practice mode, but the issue is when I'm getting rushed down and I want to throw them out of a block string. It's really frustrating because AS I'm inputting the motion I stop blocking and I get my ass kicked.

i think what you need to do is time it just so that you're in blockstun. so start the motion directly after a block and it'll carry over if you do it quickly enough

that's the other thing you do have to do it quickly or you'll get hit theres no way around that

[PriZm]

So I bought the stuff, but the more I play online, the more disappointed I am with myself and this game. The amount of work needed to play any character is staggering. Everytime I play online, I get stuffed by players who are vastly superior to me in every way. I mean, I thought EX Canceling a super move into another was an expert-level technique but now everyone seems to master it. Seriously, everybody's capable of reliably doing shoryuken, EX Cancel, Shoryuken in-game (not in training mode). And lol at the instruction manual that says: 'Ken just did a Shoryuken, but now that he sees that Ryu is blocking, he will EX Cancel and dash backwards'. Is it even remotely possible to hit-confirm something before you decide to input that shit ?

I don't usually suck at fighting games, especially 3D ones. I main Setsuka in Soul Calibur, who is the arguably one of the hardest to play, but the thing is, you actually have time to think about your next move. What I find hard to follow in Street Fighter is that you must constantly be inputting buttons like crazy to do decent damage and it makes it a game of execution rather than strategy. Not to say there is no strategy between expert players, but to get there you have to practice so fucking much it's ridiculous.

P.S. Please, please stop using the word 'scrub' if you don't know it means.

[Bleck]

Hakan's throw range kinda blows

Actually, and maybe I'm just johnsing here, several times I've used his Oil Rocket (the one where the grab animation looks like a big hug) at the closest possible range and his arms have basically gone through my opponent, doing nothing except setting me up for failure.

I mean, I love this game and all, but Hakan seems really wonky with hit detection and Juri hits me through all of my blocks with every fucking attack and araghrahghaghrhgahgr

[DJ Mighty]

So I bought the stuff, but the more I play online, the more disappointed I am with myself and this game. The amount of work needed to play any character is staggering. Everytime I play online, I get stuffed by players who are vastly superior to me in every way. I mean, I thought EX Canceling a super move into another was an expert-level technique but now everyone seems to master it. Seriously, everybody's capable of reliably doing shoryuken, EX Cancel, Shoryuken in-game (not in training mode). And lol at the instruction manual that says: 'Ken just did a Shoryuken, but now that he sees that Ryu is blocking, he will EX Cancel and dash backwards'. Is it even remotely possible to hit-confirm something before you decide to input that shit ?

I don't usually suck at fighting games, especially 3D ones. I main Setsuka in Soul Calibur, who is the arguably one of the hardest to play, but the thing is, you actually have time to think about your next move. What I find hard to follow in Street Fighter is that you must constantly be inputting buttons like crazy to do decent damage and it makes it a game of execution rather than strategy. Not to say there is no strategy between expert players, but to get there you have to practice so fucking much it's ridiculous.

P.S. Please, please stop using the word 'scrub' if you don't know it means.

i have never really met anyone who EX cancels a lot online but i have met one or 2. I think being that the game is still new it will take a little time for the ranking to level out. I have gone against players who slapped me around but then went against another player i dominated right after.

[Schwaltzvald]

So hey I'm finding a new appreciation to Juri's "Feng Shui Engine" Ultra online despite sometimes finding myself not landing as many hits as I like (bad habit of whiffing/horrible judgment of distance lol).

Nonetheless I'm finding fighting shotos and most other characters much easier occasionally online.

Juri hits me through all of my blocks with every fucking attack and araghrahghaghrhgahgr

I have to actually agree as at times I'm finding myself landing hits I'm sure that would have been blocked.

[k-wix]

Man not having played grapplers much I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how to 360 properly if I'm being rushed down. Seems like most characters can, against my Hakan, just rush him down because they have frame advantage even on jabs. I can be spamming my reversal 360 and because the motion causes me to stop blocking I'll end up eating more of the combo or some stupid shit like that. On the other hand, whenever *I* try to rush down a grappler I get my ass kicked and get thrown out of anything I do. What gives? Hakan's throw range kinda blows but that doesn't explain how I seem to have such a hard time inputting the motion while getting rushed down (or how to deal with people mixing in jumps with their rushdown.) So damn frustrating. I felt like breaking my controller at least 10 times today.

Generally speaking, Zief can outreach many players jabs and other attacks with his light Piledriver, I have not played Hakan enough to really know his oiled up (punch) throw reach, but from what i have seen, it appears to be shorter then Ziefs. Once an oppononent gets in on me and starts a combo, i'll do a 360 motion for each individual hit, starting at back, and ending on back, and typically tapping light punch for the throw, as soon as the attack ends. (And when i say 'attack ends' .. i mean i feel as though the frames for my block stun are over.) if they continue with the string, I will continue to block and if they let up on the combo - i will instantly hit them with a throw, frames and timing depending. Learning the nuances of what attacks are easy to counter with throws is a big part of the throw game.

As an example i'll go with Ryu, since everyone knows Ryu. Zief can outreach his crouching or standing jab with a throw. A lot of Ryu's like to start with a few jabs and from there go into Shoryu/Fireball/close for throw. All 3 of them can be or returned with a throw. However, if Ryu jumps in and then goes with a HK Sweep, then it'll push him out of my reach and i can't throw him.

And on Jumping opponents, Zangief deals with them almost exclusively with his Lariat, I don't understand how Hakan is supposed to deal with jumping enemies, short of his focus attack and maybe some normal anti air attacks?

If an opponent jumps in and can combo fluidly enough to keep you blocking and pushes you out of your throw reach with the combo, you will not be able to throw them. Also - Hakans throw startup is from what i can tell exactly the same as Ziefs. In that respect you can outclass and outreach traditional throws. If an opponent jumps in, starts a jab combo, then stops to move in and throw, expecting you to still be holding back and eat the throw - if you fail to throw your opponent in that situation its purely a timing and execution barrier, you can throw them all day in that situation.

[Arek the Absolute]

Almost 2000 BP here, looking forward to being C+ instead of C.

Nice, dude.

Time to step it up with my Deejay.

[zircon]

Generally speaking, Zief can outreach many players jabs and other attacks with his light Piledriver, I have not played Hakan enough to really know his oiled up (punch) throw reach, but from what i have seen, it appears to be shorter then Ziefs. Once an oppononent gets in on me and starts a combo, i'll do a 360 motion for each individual hit, starting at back, and ending on back, and typically tapping light punch for the throw, as soon as the attack ends. (And when i say 'attack ends' .. i mean i feel as though the frames for my block stun are over.) if they continue with the string, I will continue to block and if they let up on the combo - i will instantly hit them with a throw, frames and timing depending. Learning the nuances of what attacks are easy to counter with throws is a big part of the throw game.

As an example i'll go with Ryu, since everyone knows Ryu. Zief can outreach his crouching or standing jab with a throw. A lot of Ryu's like to start with a few jabs and from there go into Shoryu/Fireball/close for throw. All 3 of them can be or returned with a throw. However, if Ryu jumps in and then goes with a HK Sweep, then it'll push him out of my reach and i can't throw him.

And on Jumping opponents, Zangief deals with them almost exclusively with his Lariat, I don't understand how Hakan is supposed to deal with jumping enemies, short of his focus attack and maybe some normal anti air attacks?

If an opponent jumps in and can combo fluidly enough to keep you blocking and pushes you out of your throw reach with the combo, you will not be able to throw them. Also - Hakans throw startup is from what i can tell exactly the same as Ziefs. In that respect you can outclass and outreach traditional throws. If an opponent jumps in, starts a jab combo, then stops to move in and throw, expecting you to still be holding back and eat the throw - if you fail to throw your opponent in that situation its purely a timing and execution barrier, you can throw them all day in that situation.

Hmm, good advice. So in other words I need to wait until the block string is over (kind of hard to tell) rather than try to input while I'm still in blockstun. I guess that would be because stuff like blocked jabs are frame advantage to attacker, right? Anyway, his unoiled throw range is indeed very short, his oiled range is amazing.

Bleck, the key to Hakan is definitely oiling up. I'm learning now that it is sometimes better to take a hit and get some oil you if that's what it takes. Oiled up, his EX 360p throw is MASSIVE in range, even a little bigger than Zangief or T.Hawk's.

As for jump-ins, Hakan has his Ultra2 which stuffs 100% of all jumping attacks... very painfully. Otherwise his AA kind of sucks. If he's grounded, toward -> light punch is OK, but I have better luck with standing (or back) -> fierce punch, which has a hitbox starting directly above you and moving to in front of you.

[k-wix]

As for jump-ins, Hakan has his Ultra2 which stuffs 100% of all jumping attacks... very painfully. Otherwise his AA kind of sucks. If he's grounded, toward -> light punch is OK, but I have better luck with standing (or back) -> fierce punch, which has a hitbox starting directly above you and moving to in front of you.

One other thing you can try, this works very good with Zief, specifically because of how high he jumps and how long he remains in the air, (Hakans jump felt similar when i played) if you know your opponent will try a jump in, try jumping straight up in response, the timing is critical, what you want is for you to be just above his attack, but both of you coming down at the same time, or very close to one another.

This situation presents a lot of options, but is *especially* advantageous to a grappler, because your opponent knows that he can get tossed the absolute second you land, he'll probably try something. You can attempt to throw, block and counter, or even start a combo of your own as you come down. If you time it just right, there is very little they can do to stop you. Even a jab is very hard to time as your landing, because if they are 1/8th of a second too early, you can throw them before the frames end and they can begin a new type of attack.

And on the subject of command throw frames, someone was talking about hakans arms going through an opponent? Anytime your opponents feet leave the ground, or he is stuck in a block animation (like after being hit) he is literally immune to all throws. If you execute you will see your character 'grab' the air. That animation ONLY plays if you missed your grab or your opponent was immune to command throws. High level grapplers will learn the timings of the block frames well enough to jab -> Command Throw - its not a real combo, but if your timing is good, you can hesitate for that 1/16th of a second for the block frames to end and then execute just as your opponents block frames end, you can give him very few options to counter.

As an example, against a tall opponent like Sagat, or probably T.Hawk, try jumping over them with Zief and using his light knee attack, since they are tall, the attack hits higher giving Zief more time before he touched the floor. During this time Sagat is either going through the 'im hit' frames or the 'im blocking' frames, but both of them expire JUST as Zief lands, so you can execute a command throw as you land - still hit him - and he can't do much because he is locked in his 'block' pose until you land.

I'm sure most people know the nuances of how throws work - but just covering the basics here

[Bleck]

As for jump-ins, Hakan has his Ultra2 which stuffs 100% of all jumping attacks... very painfully.

I find this move tends to hit a lot more of the time then I thought it would - I hit someone with it once when they were just walking towards me.

[Arek the Absolute]

Randomly really liking Adon....

[BardicKnowledge]

Randomly really liking Adon....

It's a lot harder to punish him than it immediately appears, unless I'm missing something. Hate playing against adon

[Arek the Absolute]

Thing is, he has NO LINKS. Sure, j. mk -> cr lk xx rising jaguar, but online, that link is REALLY HARD to do.

[Bleck]

if ssf4 is anything like sf4 (derp) I will not be able to do any links at all online EVER

[The Derrit]

Thing is, he has NO LINKS. Sure, j. mk -> cr lk xx rising jaguar, but online, that link is REALLY HARD to do.

when i was messing around with adon i thought i got off a c. lp -> c. mk xx rising jaguar a couple times. maybe i'm just imagining things

abel is getting even better, somewhere around 1500 bp, and working on making my makoto pretty alright. at some point today i'm gonna start actually learning how to use some of the new characters, i haven't even used juri yet, or ibuki more than once

[Vimk]

Heh, even with great ping it's hard to get links in ssf4. My favorite juri ultra setup is pretty much 50% luck if I try it online. Works fine offline .

[Jhawk]

im playing nebilx and i have no idea what your talking about doing Juri Shikusen (EX her driven kick) into her Ultra 2 it's so easy its not fun to playing with her.

[Nabeel Ansari]

im playing nebilx and i have no idea what your talking about doing Juri Shikusen (EX her driven kick) into her Ultra 2 it's so easy its not fun to playing with her.

Yeah I had my ass handed to me probably 6 or 7 times AND EVERYTIME BECAUSE OF THAT COMBO.

And also, I throw a hadouken and as Jhawk blocks it I do wrath of the raging demon. I go up to him and akuma MOVES HIM ACROSS THE FLOOR but doesn't grab him and the Ultra fails.

What is that all about?

EDIT: Demon Armageddon is probably my favorite Ultra animation in the whole world.

[Arek the Absolute]

It makes me sad to see Adon so shitty.

I reaaaaaaaaally wanted to use him, but he is just so bad...