Super Street Fighter IV

[DarkeSword]

Fireballs are OP.

[Geeky Stoner]

Fireballs are OP.

personally I think they are rather useless at times, alot of people have figured out how to punish fireball spammers.

My Ryu depends more on shoryukens and hurricane kicks, fireballs are rare for me (except for the ultra and super ones)

[zircon]

I said non-fireball characters are *generally* at a disadvantage... and E.Honda has pretty much never been top tier. Most fireball characters don't suffer from a lack of close-range moves and can still string devestating combos together. However, they also have great zoning.

On a related note, the tier list really surprises me. It's obviously way too early to call any of this stuff with certainty, but Rufus was not top in SF4, and he received nothing but nerfs in SSF4 - his damage came down a LOT. I don't see how he can deal with zoning any better in this game. Maybe his jumpins trade with DPs more?

[BardicKnowledge]

Fireballs are OP.

The only character who completely gets shut down about fireballs that I can think of atm is unfortunately, Makoto.

I said non-fireball characters are *generally* at a disadvantage... and E.Honda has pretty much never been top tier. Most fireball characters don't suffer from a lack of close-range moves and can still string devestating combos together. However, they also have great zoning.

On a related note, the tier list really surprises me. It's obviously way too early to call any of this stuff with certainty, but Rufus was not top in SF4, and he received nothing but nerfs in SSF4 - his damage came down a LOT. I don't see how he can deal with zoning any better in this game. Maybe his jumpins trade with DPs more?

Rufus was 5th in vanilla 4, and in the highest "non-Sagat" tier. That being said, I don't see him as #1 by any means.

I think that this list will be completely changed in another 6 months as more things are figured out. Most of the 3rd Strike and Alpha characters seem especially low -- while that makes sense about Adon (sorry Arek, he's just too spammy) and Makoto (sorry DS, she can't parry fireballs ), Guy, Cody, Dudley, and Hakan will all move up slightly I think.

[Geeky Stoner]

a tier list!

SEE what i tell ya, I'M DA BEST THERE IS.

*proceeds into very long Rufus speech*

[Bleck]

I hate Rufus so much

[DJ Mighty]

so side note, i went on a embarrassing 10-12 losing streak last night, and i can honestly say, maybe 3 were actually better than me. I kept doing stupid stuff and afterwards think, why did i do that? lol

Normally when i have a off night i just sign off and stop before it gets that bad but i kept playing, i beat a Gouken and Ken player then finally signed off.

Anyway, that tier list seems off, not that i am an expert, just my opinion.

[The Derrit]

wait what? since when did people think abel was so good

though his new ultra really is awesome true story there

so i haven't been playing at all cuz my friend took his xbox home and i don't have one of my own. and i'll be in japan for the next month or so so you guys won't be seeing me online at all

but i'll try and get in some practice.. maybe japanese arcade, just get rocked on

[BardicKnowledge]

New thoughts on Ibuki:

Ultra 1 is still really great, as it's a TON of damage (500) and the variety of frame traps to set it up are all very sneaky. It also gives her a 1-frame reversal, which she really needs in certain matchups. However, as Arek demonstrated to me today (by completely whipping me, thanks), when people are aware of said frame traps it becomes much harder to land them and you have to get really creative. Also, Ibuki outputs a crapload of damage without either ultra, as her standard combos all do 300 ish and lead into either resets or vortex, both of which are highly favorable positions.

Ultra 2 has a half-screen range and will go through fireballs in addition to being able to combo into it (though this is rare, as the cancel required to do it is difficult). It has a slightly longer (6 frames) start-time than U1, making it ineffective for upclose footsies.

New current plan is to take U1 against grapplers, and all matchups where she needs the U1 threat to erase options (primarily Honda here). U2 for anyone with a projectile with the exception of Chun-Li, as she likes to stay close enough that U1 footsie becomes viable. As for the characters that don't outright demand U1, but have no projectile demanding U2, I'm up in the air. I've become comfortable trying frame traps into U1 online for the most part, but don't know if that will work once I get to a high enough skill level.

Those of you who took new mains in Super, have you started trying the "other" ultra, and are there matchups it may work better for you? If you haven't, change up your game plan now and then as creative thinking is always a good thing to have. I'm yet to lose against a fireball character since picking up U2...as if Ibuki didn't have enough ways around them already.

[PriZm]

hey i got a question for you street fighter experts.

I am comfortable doing fireballs, shoryuken and ultras, but I cannot do the more complicated stuff (long combos or EX cancels etc.).

How much time (or online matches) do you think I would need to be able to win something like 50% of my matches online ? Apart from being comfortable doing moves, I'm a complete street fighter newbie but I was pretty good at Soul Calibur so I am familiar with the jargon, mid-low mixups and all that shit. I just cannot figure what is effective in this game.

[Bleck]

I just cannot figure what is effective in this game.

fireballs

all of the fireballs

[djpretzel]

I'm awful at this game, and I was awful at SF4, and I confess to lacking the patience to adjust from the single-digit frame windows of HDR to the looseness of SF4. It's not SF4, it's me.

That being said, while I'm bad with her, I do at LEAST have FUN playing as Juri.

[Jhawk]

hey i got a question for you street fighter experts.

I am comfortable doing fireballs, shoryuken and ultras, but I cannot do the more complicated stuff (long combos or EX cancels etc.).

How much time (or online matches) do you think I would need to be able to win something like 50% of my matches online ? Apart from being comfortable doing moves, I'm a complete street fighter newbie but I was pretty good at Soul Calibur so I am familiar with the jargon, mid-low mixups and all that shit. I just cannot figure what is effective in this game.

PriZm if you only had Xbox i could help you cuz i played Soul Caliber 3 & 4 a shit load and i know how it feels.

[PriZm]

ya it seems like the majority of people here is on XBox.

bleck: isn't it a bad habit to abuse fireball ? Aren't they like super-punishable and relying on them would stop me from getting better ?

djpretzel: yeah I was awful at SF4 too. but now I've done some Soul Calibur 4 tournaments and I was pretty confident I would be decent at Super Street Fighter 4 but it seems I was wrong.

I really WANT to like this game, but it's hard to keep motivated since none of my friends play it and I get completely obliterated online. I don't feel like I'm learning because I get beat up so bad. So again, in terms of time investment, how much would you estimate before I get good ? Also, is it useful to play against the CPU ? Like, before going online, should I be able to finish Medium or Hard without losing a match or is it completely irrelevant (like in Soul Calibur) ?

[Arek the Absolute]

ya it seems like the majority of people here is on XBox.

bleck: isn't it a bad habit to abuse fireball ? Aren't they like super-punishable and relying on them would stop me from getting better ?

If you are smart about it, hell no.

You have to play to how your character is.

I may have missed it, but who do you play as?

Also, JHawk, after our last performance, we definitely need to step it up. We both were doing stupid shit that we would never do in normal Street Fighter 4..

[zircon]

Perhaps one of us could help if you could upload a replay, either via XBLA (if that's what you're on) or even just recording it to YouTube. Who's your main? Here are some common things to help you get better at SSF4.

1. Don't spam reversals. Since it is really easy to do reversals, almost any competent player will not try to attack you on wakeup. If you see them executing an attack, then of course go ahead and reversal them. Also, if you're a grappler and they're just standing around (but NOT JUMPING) right as you're waking up, reversal command grab them. "Mashing DP" against anyone with half a brain is just a bad idea.

2. A common tactic is for people to jump in on you and execute a block string (eg. a series of attacks where you are in hit stun and they have the 'frame advantage'.) In these situations, it is generally best to hold down-back and then spam LP+LK. This is what is known as an 'optional select' or 'crouch tech'. If they finish their block string and then go for a throw, you will tech it and/or hit them. If they mess up their block string, you will hit them. If they continue their string, you will just block. It's generally a win-win scenario for you.

3. Always block high when someone is jumping in. Sounds simple, but some people don't do it, so be aware of that.

4. Don't spam Ultras or other highly-punishable moves just out of desperation. If you are losing, it's better to maintain your calm and keep your tactics the same. If anything, you may consider playing more defensively and baiting your opponent to attack, setting up a good opportunity to execute your ultra.

5. Learn your "BNB" combos. Everybody can execute moves in SSF4. Learning a few basic combos will go a long way, though. Forget about link combos for now and spend time in Challenge mode to fine tune your skills. A BNB (bread and butter) combo is something you should do in any situation where you have the opportunity to deal damage. For example, a whiffed fierce shoryuken, whiffed focus attack or ultra. For example, Guile's BNB is crouching MP -> fierce Flash Kick. Fei Long's BNB is standing close FP -> 3x Rekkaken. Many players will simply do a low sweep or throw if they have the opportunity to deal damage, but this is not taking advantage of the opponent. Most online players know their BNB combos so if you're not doing yours, you're at a disadvantage.

6. Learn your block strings. Simple strings tend just to be a series of LP and LK attacks, but Challenge mode will help you learn more advanced ones that also incorporate special attacks. Even if you are playing a very defensive character, you need to know how to apply pressure. Once you know some basic block strings, develop your mindgames. Throw a series of blocked attacks out, then pause a split-second. If the opponent goes for a reversal, you can punish them. If they do nothing, you can rush up and throw them (I do this all the time.) Mixing in overhead attacks with your block strings is another excellent way to pressure, and will almost ALWAYS make your opponent start panicing and throwing out attacks.

7. This might go without saying, but try to pick one or two characters and really learn all of their properties. A big part of Street Fighter is "footsies", which basically consists of moving back and forth and throwing out normal moves (not specials) to help control space. Many newer SF players simply use as many specials as possible, but this is not a good idea. Try browsing this guide for more info:

http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

Learning normals is such a big part of this because each character has very different properties of their normal moves. For example, Guile can beat out almost any jump-in attack simply by crouching and pressing fierce punch, but you need to know the timing for this, because it's different than other "anti air" normals like Fei Long's standing back+roundhouse. Some characters have particular normals that are extremely good and that you should constantly rely on - Chun-Li's medium punch, for example, Dee Jay's slide, or Hakan's fierce punch.

[The Derrit]

http://www.akirathedon.com/2010/05/atd23-a-tribute-to-the-music-of-street-fighter/

kinda cool. around 9:00 he uses blood on the asphalt but he says he'll put up a list of full samples used later

[BardicKnowledge]

hey i got a question for you street fighter experts.

I am comfortable doing fireballs, shoryuken and ultras, but I cannot do the more complicated stuff (long combos or EX cancels etc.).

How much time (or online matches) do you think I would need to be able to win something like 50% of my matches online ? Apart from being comfortable doing moves, I'm a complete street fighter newbie but I was pretty good at Soul Calibur so I am familiar with the jargon, mid-low mixups and all that shit. I just cannot figure what is effective in this game.

If you can do (with Ryu, Ken, or Akuma) j. HK, cr.mk xx fireball, you have enough combo skills to be decent. Not saying that's the only combo (or the hardest one you'll have to do), but that is the minimum skill requirement for entry to the game, basically. Practice with us sometime if you're on XBL and we'll give you much more in-depth advice.

I'm awful at this game, and I was awful at SF4, and I confess to lacking the patience to adjust from the single-digit frame windows of HDR to the looseness of SF4. It's not SF4, it's me.

That being said, while I'm bad with her, I do at LEAST have FUN playing as Juri.

Believe it or not djp, there are a LOT more 1-frame windows and tighter timing in SF4 than HDR. The only exception is that everyone can do reversals all the time. Everything else is more difficult to do in 4, hands down -- few characters require one-frame link combos in HDR, while much of the cast relies on them here. The biggest change from HDR to SF4 is that meaty moves are next to useless because everyone can reversal you somehow (though some chars, like my poor Ibuki, have to burn EX meter to do it).

If you're playing on 360, hit Arek, zircon, and myself up some time and we'll get you up to speed.

ya it seems like the majority of people here is on XBox.

bleck: isn't it a bad habit to abuse fireball ? Aren't they like super-punishable and relying on them would stop me from getting better ?

djpretzel: yeah I was awful at SF4 too. but now I've done some Soul Calibur 4 tournaments and I was pretty confident I would be decent at Super Street Fighter 4 but it seems I was wrong.

I really WANT to like this game, but it's hard to keep motivated since none of my friends play it and I get completely obliterated online. I don't feel like I'm learning because I get beat up so bad. So again, in terms of time investment, how much would you estimate before I get good ? Also, is it useful to play against the CPU ? Like, before going online, should I be able to finish Medium or Hard without losing a match or is it completely irrelevant (like in Soul Calibur) ?

Fireballs follow the same rule as every other move: Never use it if they could punish you cleanly. If you're at full-screen distance, go ahead and spam it (unless they have a full-screen ultra). If they're close enough to jump over and combo, don't. This rule of "don't do a move unless it's safe" isn't always the right answer, but until you know enough about the game to be certain an unsafe move is the right decision, it's worth remembering.

As far as the AI is concerned, it isn't as irrelevant as SC4 where they spam perfect guardbreaks every swing, but by and large your ability to beat the computer doesn't reflect your ability to beat human players. Similarly, being able to do the ridiculous Trial Mode combos is not necessary for the vast majority of the cast (I play a wicked Ibuki and can't do her last one).

[Bleck]

guys how do I get better with cody

[Jhawk]

guys how do I get better with cody

dude are you F***ing jokeing cody is one of the easy character to use

this video is all you need

[BardicKnowledge]

dude are you F***ing jokeing cody is one of the easy character to use

Because apparently plinking and 1-frame links are easy for you? That's nice, but you don't need to be a dick to the rest of us.

Bleck: it's all about the basics -- get footsies down, read the footsie guide Zircon linked earlier.

[Geeky Stoner]

Bah who cares if your good or bad, just enjoy the game most of all.

Also if anyone would like to train against an Human opponent (who isn't just going to destroy you in 10 seconds) I'm up for some sparring with anyone.

360 tag:Geeky Stoner

(PS: DON'T call me stoner)

[Bleck]

can I call you jeff

[Geeky Stoner]

can I call you jeff

O.O.......sure

[Tinus]

a bunch of great advice

This is a pretty useful overview. I didn't even know about 2., I'll have to experiment with that.