OCR TF2: Stab stab stab!

[Powerlord]

Wait, what? What do you mean by "the current state of affairs" and why is it your fault?

I haven't been paying much attention to TF2 recently.

Not only has there been persistent server problems, but I also drove certain people off by adding certain plugins to the server. The main example of this would be the one that removed the ability to play as Engineer on koth_nucleus.

I've also been intentionally avoiding the server even when there were players on it, simply because I was already playing on another server.

How much money do I need to throw at this?

That depends entirely on the server host you go with. The most expensive is roughly $30/month for a single server, although they generally offer multi-month discounts. I know our last server host also had a donation system in place, but we didn't use it.

According to a conversation I had with Bark and Paranoid last night, this seems to create a "single tyrant" scenario that these folks are trying to avoid.

Having just gotten out of what essentially turned into a single tyrant scenario, can you blame them?

[IRJustman]

Having just gotten out of what essentially turned into a single tyrant scenario, can you blame them?

I guess that's true, though the key difference is you tend to deal with gameplay behavior and I tend to deal with social behavior/decorum.

--IJ.

[Top Gun]

I've also been intentionally avoiding the server even when there were players on it, simply because I was already playing on another server.

I kind of guessed as much based on when I've seen you on, and that kind of bums me out. I enjoy playing the game with you, and I didn't really want there to be a situation where you feel like you aren't welcome to play with the OCR group just because you're now involved with another server. I know the Reddit server's your main hangout, but don't be a stranger with us too.

In the end, I personally don't really care who's running what, so long as we have a reasonably-stable place to play. If it comes down to donations, I can probably chip in a bit here and there, and definitely more regularly if I can manage to find a full-time job.

[bark]

I guess that's true, though the key difference is you tend to deal with gameplay behavior and I tend to deal with social behavior/decorum.

--IJ.

And just to point out, it wasn't meant explicitly as a negative,just that a number of decisions were made by a single person, and a lot people felt there was no input into those changes, for good or bad, where as before there was discussion on plugin/setting changes.

For the record, i didn't have a problem with banning GM from playing engineer on Nucleus, since he did that little trick pretty much EVERY time he played on it.(Sorry GM, just drives me nuts )

[ParanoidDrone]

For the record, i didn't have a problem with banning GM from playing engineer on Nucleus, since he did that little trick pretty much EVERY time he played on it.(Sorry GM, just drives me nuts )

You know, I doubt anyone would have cared if you did a /slay Gamemaster in an attempt at negative reinforcement.

[Brushfire]

So how much money do I need to throw at this. Tell me the best host, and then watch as I raise it from the dead.

[bark]

So how much money do I need to throw at this. Tell me the best host, and then watch as I raise it from the dead.

I believe what Powerlord is saying is that you'll need to research your own server hosts if you want to do that, and i don't think his server package is one you can take over. He'd like to step away from being involved. (Powerlord can correct me if i'm wrong.)

[Black Waltz]

i was going through my google docs and dug up this old gem:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15-vUVdEOH-bXOOEaZiJCUlSYmh20uhNWF7kcqe4zgpw/edit

[Super-Duper Sombrero]

i was going through my google docs and dug up this old gem:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15-vUVdEOH-bXOOEaZiJCUlSYmh20uhNWF7kcqe4zgpw/edit

what the fuck

[Brushfire]

Hey Hey!~! That thing! I have missed that.

[Top Gun]

loooooooooolwut

[ParanoidDrone]

i was going through my google docs and dug up this old gem:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15-vUVdEOH-bXOOEaZiJCUlSYmh20uhNWF7kcqe4zgpw/edit

I remember when Lale wrote that.

[Bahamut]

So we're working on hopefully having a new server in a month and a half or so - things are looking pretty good for me working by the end of the month at a pretty good job and if that happens, I will be able to cover the server. I will probably make a new thread when the time comes.

What do people want to see? What maps, plugins (Powerlord's map voting plugin, pregame mayhem, etc.), settings (mp_timelimit/mp_winlimit, sudden death, melee only sudden death, etc.), features, and more do you all want? What should the server be named? Who should be admin? Reserve slots exclusively for regulars? What features should reserve slot holders be able to access?

Let me know!

[ParanoidDrone]

Disclaimer: I am unfamiliar with the specifics of server configuration so some of the following may or may not be feasible.

Maps: All stock maps for sure, or at least most of them, with a selection of quality customs. (Aerospace, Swiftwater, Obscure, etc.) If possible, the normal rotation should be popular stock maps only, with unpopular stock maps and customs available exclusively via nomination or some other kind of vote. This is mostly to keep the server population up, since customs and unpopular maps like Hydro tend to empty servers unless specifically voted for -- if people want to play there, fine, but don't force it on them.

Plugins: Powerlord's voting plugin is amazing for the simple fact that it doesn't disable the number keys. Definitely in favor of keeping that. I don't care one way or another about pregame mayhem.

Settings: In a strictly either/or situation, I'd prefer map switching to be based on the number of rounds played rather than time. In my experience, playing the same map more than 2 or 3 times in a row tends to get old fast, especially in cases like Dustbowl where a match can last up to a half hour if RED successfully defends the last point. I'm not sure if it's possible to combine the two, although I see no reason why it wouldn't.

Features: IMO autoupdating is important. Powerlord was always pretty fast on the uptake, but in the interests of making the setup relatively future proof, it would be a good idea to remove the human element from the equation.

Admins: It should probably go without saying that whoever is the primary owner/manager/what have you of the server should be a root admin if only for sheer convenience. Unfortunately I have no real suggestions other than that, although I'm aware that we're trying to avoid a single person dictatorship situation, as it were.

Reserve Slots: TBH I'm quite apathetic about it, although perhaps apathetic isn't the right word. I'm under the impression that reserve slots are handed out to people that play regularly and are generally respectful to others. In other words, trustworthy members of the community. If this is the case, then I don't have a problem with them being granted extra privileges, and depending on the nature of said privileges, they could even act as a group of "minimods." However, it has the potential to turn very cliquish very quickly, which I don't think is a good thing. The alternative is to grant them to anyone who makes a donation to keep the server running, in which case any privileges would have to be fairly innocuous, otherwise you'd be able to literally buy a mod slot. Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. Food for thought.

[Bahamut]

Also I should add that it's possible to alter the settings for each map such as a specific win limit for maps like Dustbowl and Goldrush. Having different settings for different maps probably will be vital since arena maps will definitely go by quicker.

Also, should I try installing some plugin or extension that lets arena take up as many people as on (i.e. the whole server as opposed to just the first 14) as possible while keeping it balanced?

I believe TF2 servers autoupdate by default now, but I'll do research into that.

For those wondering, I am crafting these settings from scratch. Perhaps down the road a half year later or so, I may even be able to start learning the scripting language to craft any plugins or extensions we may want (my potential job will teach programming to me).

Multiple admins are also just practical. Having people available to prevent a bad situation where a crappy random pub goes around doing some annoying/counterproductive stuff like aimbot or blast annoying music and other pubs prevent him from being votekicked/votebanned is also important.

I should also mention it's possible to finetune what settings reserve slot holders can access. For example, I can make it so that reserve slot holders can force a map change, or create a custom next map vote list, or kick/ban people, force votekick/voteban, set people on fire, or whatever combination of admin features there are.

Edit: To give more food for thought, here's another setting to mull over

mp_idlemaxtime - how many minutes should I set it to?

It turns out there's no current working plugin/extension for fixing the arena team limit. Perhaps I'll take a crack at it eventually, it would be nice to have full teams for that.

[ParanoidDrone]

I forgot about Arena. A plugin to increase the number of players for those maps is definitely a good idea. (Why is it limited to begin with anyway?)

I'm aware you can grant plenty of different abilities to reserve slot holders, but I have some reservations about the different ways we can go about granting them. I'll try to outline my disjointed logic:

-We can take applications for reserve slots and approve them on a case by case basis. We could then safely grant them relatively powerful privileges due to the inherent screening process, but we risk turning the whole thing into a clique. This may or may not be desirable depending on what we want reserve slots to represent -- dedication to the community, or just people who happen to play a lot on our particular server?

-We can grant them fairly unilaterally, possibly for donations to keep the server running. This effectively stops the forming of a clique since there's no application process but opens the system to potential abuse by people who would seek to cause mayhem with their new powers.

The thought occurs to me that it's probably not possible to completely automate the reserve slot process, thus any implementation will always have the opportunity for one or more persons to check if the applicant is genuine or a troll. If this is the case, then I have far fewer misgivings about the degree of powers granted to reserve slot holders.

</paranoia>

[Trianine]

I prefer KOTH, PL, PLR, Arena, for maps. Like to see custom maps in the list, as dangerous as that can be. As already said, let the arena fill out more than normal to comfort those who hate arena and are impatient to play.

Server settings: pregame mayhem,slaughter, votecrits, voting, voting, voting for everything. Possibility of silly mods, like !rtd, melee only, partymod for those special occasions, or times when server regulars are bored and want to fill the server.

Map times are preferred to be short. Give each team a chance at each side of the map, at least. Try not to keep a map on server for 30 minutes, except for multi-part maps that demand extra time. default respawn times.

And as a favor, please allow custom sounds. For some reason servers that do not end up producing sounds that may crash the game.

As far as admin/moderators go, I'd be interested in seeing who wants the position. If I am a regular again, I will express interest in the position. Admins who use their power to control troublesome players and trolls, or who make changes based on popular request are preferred over ones who decide "I want to play dustbowl, right now!" or who think it's okay to use slay, beacon, etc just because they are amused by their control over other players.

I like that OCR gives preference to regulars for slot reservations. But I also think regulars should support the server. 2 bucks a month isn't a lot! Therefore, I think these players should be given some incentives to play. Like less limits to voting privileges, moderation, donation events (or the ability to set events), or even a mod like allowing them to choose a play-buddy and not get teamswapped.

[Bahamut]

To allow custom sounds, would I have to whitelist the whole sounds folder? I do not believe whitelisting a whole folder is a good idea, although I may end up doing so. Do custom sounds replace the regular sound files themselves? If they replace the regular sound files, it should be fine since then I can add each file individually to the whitelist, but otherwise it would be a no go since whitelisting a whole folder is dangerous.

Trying to figure out these settings again might take a day whenever we get this done, so bear with me when it happens.

Do people have particular map settings they'd like to see (round limit on Dustbowl/Goldrush/Thundermountain, automatic team scrambles after certain # of rounds different than the default, etc.)?

[Lumpy]

So we're working on hopefully having a new server in a month and a half or so - things are looking pretty good for me working by the end of the month at a pretty good job and if that happens, I will be able to cover the server. I will probably make a new thread when the time comes.

What do people want to see? What maps, plugins (Powerlord's map voting plugin, pregame mayhem, etc.), settings (mp_timelimit/mp_winlimit, sudden death, melee only sudden death, etc.), features, and more do you all want? What should the server be named? Who should be admin? Reserve slots exclusively for regulars? What features should reserve slot holders be able to access?

Let me know!

Disable crits by default and have the vote to turn them on.

[Brushfire]

Disable crits by default and have the vote to turn them on.

No, crits are part of the game. Leave them on by default and have a vote to turn them off.

[Bahamut]

Most people probably will want crits on, but I'm willing to entertain thoughts on it. Turning them off for arena probably should be a given though.

[Sir Prize]

Most people probably will want crits on, but I'm willing to entertain thoughts on it. Turning them off for arena probably should be a given though.

Aw, but then how will I single-handedly defeat the other team as a melee Heavy?

[ParanoidDrone]

Custom Sounds: PLEASE make sure you prevent the Spy's decloak sounds from being modified, no matter what you end up doing. That is all.

[Bahamut]

Good point. Looks like I'll have to whitelist each sound individually then.

[Powerlord]

So we're working on hopefully having a new server in a month and a half or so - things are looking pretty good for me working by the end of the month at a pretty good job and if that happens, I will be able to cover the server. I will probably make a new thread when the time comes.

What do people want to see? What maps, plugins (Powerlord's map voting plugin, pregame mayhem, etc.), settings (mp_timelimit/mp_winlimit, sudden death, melee only sudden death, etc.), features, and more do you all want? What should the server be named? Who should be admin? Reserve slots exclusively for regulars? What features should reserve slot holders be able to access?

Let me know!

I can give you the entire /addons/sourcemod and /cfg folders. The catch is that the SourceMod /bin and /extensions directories contain just Linux files and won't work on a Windows server.

Right now, the following plugins are installed. Note that SourceMod 1.4.2 is out now and the server has been updated to it:

sm plugins list
[SM] Listing 35 plugins:
  01 "Admin File Reader" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  02 "Basic Info Triggers" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  03 "Map Nominations" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  04 "Immunity Reserve Slots" (1.0.4) by Jamster
  05 "Basic Chat" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  06 "Admin Menu" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  07 "Nextmap" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  08 "Mapchooser Extended Sounds" (1.3) by Powerlord
  09 "DeadChat" (1.0.0) by bl4nk
  10 "Client Preferences" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  11 "Anti-Flood" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  12 "Spray Tracer" (5.8a) by Nican132, CptMoore, Lebson506th
  13 "Basic Comm Control" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  14 "TF2 FF on during waiting for players" (1.1) by Ratty
  15 "SourceBans" (1.4.9) by SourceBans Development Team
  16 "Name Change Punisher" (1.1) by Powerlord
  17 "Fun Commands" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  18 "Language ID" (1.0) by Powerlord
  19 "HLstatsX CE Ingame Plugin" (1.6.15) by psychonic
  20 "Basic Votes" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  21 "Fun Votes" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  22 "Admin Help" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  23 "Basic Commands" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  24 "Player Commands" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  25 "Maplister" (1.5) by theY4Kman
  26 "BuiltinVotes Revote" (1.0) by Powerlord
  27 "[Any] Immunity4Replay + SourceTV" (3.4.1) by DarthNinja
  28 "Custom Votes" (0.5.6) by chundo
  29 "Rock The Vote" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  30 "TF Force Holidays" (1.4) by Powerlord
  31 "Sound Commands" (1.4.2) by AlliedModders LLC
  32 "SuperLogs: TF2" (2.0.28) by Thomas "CmptrWz" Berezansky & psychonic
  33 "Advertisements" (0.5.5) by Tsunami
  34 "Kigen's Anti-Cheat" (1.2.2.0) by CodingDirect LLC
  35 "MapChooser Extended" (1.8.2) by Powerlord, Zuko, and AlliedModders LLC

And the extensions:

sm exts list
[SM] Displaying 14 extensions:
[01] Automatic Updater (1.4.2): Updates SourceMod gamedata files
[02] Webternet (1.4.2): Extension for interacting with URLs
[03] Server Secure - Files Only (1.0.0): The finest defence
[04] TF2 Tools (1.4.2): TF2 extended functionality
[05] BinTools (1.4.2): Low-level C/C++ Calling API
[06] CBaseServer tools (1.1.0.0): Base server tools (and example of detours)
[07] SDK Tools (1.4.2): Source SDK Tools
[08] Top Menus (1.4.2): Creates sorted nested menus
[09] Client Preferences (1.4.2): Saves client preference settings
[10] SQLite (1.4.2): SQLite Driver
[11] Builtin Votes (0.5.7): API to do votes using the L4D, L4D2, and Orange Box Valve game in-game vote interface
[12] SDK Hooks (2.1.0): Source SDK Hooks
[13] Socket (3.0.1alpha): Socket extension for SourceMod
[14] MySQL-DBI (1.4.2): MySQL driver implementation for DBI

Edit: Er... ignore Language ID... it's a development plugin I was using for debugging BuiltinVotes.

Plugins: Powerlord's voting plugin is amazing for the simple fact that it doesn't disable the number keys. Definitely in favor of keeping that. I don't care one way or another about pregame mayhem.

There are still a few bugs in the BuiltinVotes extension, although it appears to be working correctly for multiple-choice votes. The remaining bugs appear to affect Yes/No votes only. Having said that, I'm not really updating BuiltinVotes any more...

Settings: In a strictly either/or situation, I'd prefer map switching to be based on the number of rounds played rather than time. In my experience, playing the same map more than 2 or 3 times in a row tends to get old fast, especially in cases like Dustbowl where a match can last up to a half hour if RED successfully defends the last point. I'm not sure if it's possible to combine the two, although I see no reason why it wouldn't.

And I can tell you from personal experience on RUGC Midwest... set it to 2 rounds, as 3 rounds drags on for maps like goldrush, thunder mountain, and dustbowl.

mp_timelimit and mp_maxrounds can both be used, and in fact BLU is currently set up that way.

Features: IMO autoupdating is important. Powerlord was always pretty fast on the uptake, but in the interests of making the setup relatively future proof, it would be a good idea to remove the human element from the equation.

This is entirely dependent on the host. Even now, BLU is set to autoupdate (unless I killed the autoupdater and forgot), but RED isn't. This is because RED is currently running as the event server, and you can't run two copies of the HLDSUpdateTool at the same time.

Also I should add that it's possible to alter the settings for each map such as a specific win limit for maps like Dustbowl and Goldrush. Having different settings for different maps probably will be vital since arena maps will definitely go by quicker.

Arena has an additional config file, cfg/config_area.cfg. So, you can set just one set of limits for normal maps and one for arena.

Also, should I try installing some plugin or extension that lets arena take up as many people as on (i.e. the whole server as opposed to just the first 14) as possible while keeping it balanced?

...

For those wondering, I am crafting these settings from scratch. Perhaps down the road a half year later or so, I may even be able to start learning the scripting language to craft any plugins or extensions we may want (my potential job will teach programming to me).

...

It turns out there's no current working plugin/extension for fixing the arena team limit. Perhaps I'll take a crack at it eventually, it would be nice to have full teams for that.

Sadly, the arena problem is something that needs to be written as a C++ extension. Extensions are considerably more difficult to write than Plugins are. The other choice is to disable the arena wait queue (tf_arena_use_queue 0), but that also means that one team can have 1 more player than the other team... and players can choose which team they want rather than being assigned to a random team.

I believe TF2 servers autoupdate by default now, but I'll do research into that.

Only on Linux, only if -autoupdate was passed in on server start, and only when the map changes... meaning only if players are already on the server.

To allow custom sounds, would I have to whitelist the whole sounds folder? I do not believe whitelisting a whole folder is a good idea, although I may end up doing so. Do custom sounds replace the regular sound files themselves? If they replace the regular sound files, it should be fine since then I can add each file individually to the whitelist, but otherwise it would be a no go since whitelisting a whole folder is dangerous.

Whitelisting is a tricky business. Right now, on BLU, specific sounds are forced to be from Steam. Those include the Spy decloak sounds.

On a different subject, if you have RED if your server list, you've probably noticed that I've reappropriated it as a Vs. Saxton Hale (now Freak Fortress) server. We've been doing events Saturdays at 8pm CDT / 9pm EDT.

Edit: Incoming TF2 update.