PS2 Emulator on PS3. Can it really happen?

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Because it just seems to good to be true!

I saw the following at http://www.ps3news.com/forums/playstation-3-news/ps2-slim-ps3-110872.html. It's post #5 on the page. Go look at it so you can see the two images. I would be awe-struck if this ever really happened.

However, I'd like to point out that myself and refraction (both of us of the PCSX2 team) have talked about the concept of porting our emulator to the PS3 should the ability to run homebrew become available. Our intention is to provide whatSony promised and failed to deliver on: full software emulation of the PS2 on ALL PS3's. Just to show the difference in picture quality between launch PS3's and our emulator, here's a comparison shot.

Attached Images

File Type: jpg FFX on PCSX2.jpg (393.9 KB, 111 views)

File Type: jpg FFX on PS3.jpg (327.9 KB, 110 views)

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Read more: http://www.ps3news.com/forums/playstation-3-news/ps2-slim-ps3-110872.html#ixzz0oqaQoCQ2

[Mirby]

I think it's about time that ALL PS2 games were compatible with the ALL PS3 systems. Kind of stupid that they aren't already, imo.

[Level 99]

First, that image comparison is staggering. I've run PCSX2 every now and again just futzing around with stuff. I had no idea that even with upscaling the PS3 on-board support, when it had it, PS2-on-PS3 was that terrible. I didn't read the full thread, but are the ones from the PS3 from the 80gb software emu or the 20/60gb hardware emu?

Second, while it would be incredible to get ps2 support on all ps3's, there's those two obvious obstacles:

1) the ability to run homebrew on the PS3 (this is an eventuality as, with all hardware, time nearly always reveals holes permitting exploits, however with the PS3 there I can't really see it happening in the near future)

2) the cross-coding needed to run it on the PS3.

I guess the cross-coding has two main options, if we ever get to that point:

a) if Linux support were ever reactivated, or somehow reached through exploit that also allowed direct access to the graphics core, then just optimizing the Linux build for PS3 and creating the proper plugins for GFX, audio, pads, and whatnot.

going straight to the homebrew-on-exploit level and having a version coded specifically for the cell chip and associated hardware.

Neither of those look particularly tasty, though I'm not an emu coder. I'd love to have high hopes for this, but...I just can't fight the feeling that it's just not going to happen. I'd love to be proven wrong, and I wish I knew more about it to make a better educated guess.

[LuketheXjesse]

I have one of the original PS3 models, so I can play PS2/PSX games on it already.

[Gollgagh]

my original 60gig ps3 died so this'd be totally sweet

[Necrotic]

my original 60gig ps3 died so this'd be totally sweet

The GPU on my current PS3 is dying. Graphical spikes, textures and lighting maps corrupting. Graphically intense games are starting to become a mess.

I'm hoping if I ask for another 60GB (or the same console refurbished) I can get one back.

If I get a console without PS2 support I will rage.

I've gotta agree with Stevo though, who knows if we'll see PS2 emulation happen any time soon (if at all), whether it be done through homebrew or delivered to us from Sony themselves. The best we can do is hope that in Sony's blackest of black hearts they actually have enough sympathy to deliver us such an alternative.

[Gollgagh]

The GPU on my current PS3 is dying. Graphical spikes, textures and lighting maps corrupting. Graphically intense games are starting to become a mess.

that's exactly what happened to mine

but I'm way out of warranty plus I opened it up myself

also I'm too cheap to want to pay the $150 to get it repaired or whatever

[Triad Orion]

The best we can do is hope that in Sony's blackest of black hearts they actually have enough sympathy to deliver us such an alternative.

They did. It's called buying a PlayStation 2. Because they want more money.

But it's bullshit that they removed that support from the PlayStation 3. It's not like the PS2 had a small library or anything, and it's not like everyone and their brother didn't own one or have a considerable library they'd still like to play...

[Level 99]

They did. It's called buying a PlayStation 2. Because they want more money.

But it's bullshit that they removed that support from the PlayStation 3. It's not like the PS2 had a small library or anything, and it's not like everyone and their brother didn't own one or have a considerable library they'd still like to play...

It was one of the ways they reduced functionality in order to reduce the price of the PS3. Logically, it made sense:

Including the hardware, as the 20/60gb launch PS3's had, is one of the ways the price was jacked up.

Running the software emulation reduced compatibility with many more PS2 titles, and supporting that with further firmware updates is more money spent on the developers parts. Essentially, in Sony's eyes, it's probably seen as both aiding emulation enthusiasts by doing their job for them, as well as product cannibalization (buying one sony product instead of two, which takes money out of their pockets).

http://www.hardcoreware.net/playstation-3-80gbs-ps2-backwards-compatibility-sucks/

Just to illustrate the point of reduced software support.

Chipp, can you make a handy-dandy circle graph showing how many games it supports for the PS2, or is that not possible? Just for my own personal interest, actually.

Chances of Sony ever bringing back software emulation for PS3 is slim to none, and slim is drunk dangling off the balcony.

[Thalzon]

Ps2 emulator?!!!??!??!

[Lunarfall]

Used PS2s are like $40. Just sayin'.

[EdgeCrusher]

Disc Read Errors are like $40. Just sayin'.

Just sayin'

[The Legendary Zoltan]

I didn't read the full thread, but are the ones from the PS3 from the 80gb software emu or the 20/60gb hardware emu?

I didn't read everything either but they said that this emulator would work on every PS3 no matter the model. Sweet, yeah!

Chipp, can you make a handy-dandy circle graph showing how many games it supports for the PS2, or is that not possible?

I hate to be unhelpful but you are a funny guy, Mr. 99. I have no idea how many games Sony's original PS2 emulator supports, nor do I know how many games this home made one supports. It sounds like it would support all games, though.

It's just so funny to me that you would ask a total stranger to make a pie chart of something for you. Hahaha.

The thing that gets me most excited about this is the difference in picture quality. Even if you already own a backwards compatible PS3, it doesn't look as nuts as that attached picture, right? I would LOVE to play Xenogears or Xenosaga like that!

[Level 99]

It's just so funny to me that you would ask a total stranger to make a pie chart of something for you. Hahaha.

I come for the funny, I stay for the awesome. Well, you started the topic! I'll just come up with the graph in my mind.

I was also going to point out that, even if one buys a PS2 for $40, they're not going to get the quality they want out of current HDTVs. In my humble opinion, and unless my old eyes deceive me, pretty much all standard def signals look like complete arse on any HDTVs. Considering that's the majority of market selection available these days (unless you're shopping used, or something really small, you're 95% going to get an HDTV), buying a PS2 wouldn't be the wisest investment unless you're planning on running it on an older TV.

http://hdgames.net/

Go here and sort through how many PS2 games support 480p (there is one game, maybe two games, that support 1080i on the PS2). A modest amount, but consider how many people complain about the Wii only supporting 480p. Definitely better than 480i, especially on HDTVs, but it's not what people want. For the PS2 emulating the PS1, the signal being sent was still on the same standards at the time. PS3 running PS2 came as the shift to higher resolutions was heavily moving, so the situation is quite different.

And for those who snoop around, there IS a retail un-Sony disc that forces the PS2 to run at specific HD resolutions regardless of what the game indicates. 1) it doesn't work with all, or many, games. 2) when it does work, it's glitchy or just ups the display resolution, not the render resolution (causing stutter or not even stretching the display to match the signal).

PS3: It only does everything (except play PS2 games, and if it does, it doesn't upscale the render)

/endrant

I'll be watching eagerly now to see what develops out of any PCSX2 endeavor to run on PS3.

[The Damned]

Ps2 emulator?!!!??!??!

I was waiting for someone to say that.

Come on, people. OCR-specific meme, totally on topic, and no one said it right off the bat?

[Schwaltzvald]

I was waiting for someone to say that.

Come on, people. OCR-specific meme, totally on topic, and no one said it right off the bat?

tired OCR-specific meme is tired

[atmuh]

most people have no idea what that was about

[The Damned]

Most people aren't hard-core enough for site-specific memes, or are newfags and don't deserve to be included in any way whatsoever.

Or so other sites tell me about OCR.

[Schwaltzvald]

Most people aren't hard-core enough for site-specific memes, or are newfags and don't deserve to be included in any way whatsoever.

Or so other sites tell me about OCR.

Thus reaching the peak of the derailment, I bring you all this.

As for the emulator, I have little faith in it actually being used or brought on currently ps2-less PS3s without absolute success.

[Level 99]

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/playstation-3/news/why-sonys-patent-for-a-ps2-box-is-the-best-solution-to-backwards-compatibility/a-2010091511846496017/g-20060314115917309058

Check out Sony's latest patent. Intriguing.

[Gollgagh]

I would probably buy it

[Schwaltzvald]

I'd buy it if it manages to play every single PS2 title ever to exist, or at least 95% of them; including the very rare and new ps2 titles...

[Gollgagh]

if it's hardware, I would fully expect it to play damned near every game

[Level 99]

if it's hardware, I would fully expect it to play damned near every game

That would be the assumption, yes. Eurogamer has some very interesting technical insights on the theory behind this patent:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps2-adaptor-patent-blog-entry

"

The real challenge here is bandwidth. The PS3's USB ports are capable of transferring around 35 megabytes per second at their maximum throughput level - no way is this fast enough to host an entire console. The fact that the hub appears to be handling Ethernet traffic suggests that Sony's solution to the bandwidth issue is to use the gigabit network port on the rear of the unit.

This offers a 125 megabyte per second connection between the host console and the "removable adaptor". The theory is that the PS2 game disc is inserted into the PS3 with data from the drive combined with input from the controller(s) being beamed over the LAN port. The adaptor then decodes the data and processes it exactly as a PS2 would. The output data is then transmitted back to the PS3."

Sounds like a LOT of effort to get the data from either disc/HDD to the external hardware box and back, even before post-processing like upscaling. It'd look a lot like the 32x/Sega Cd looked when added to the base console if it went through the ethernet connection. Heck, even making a passthrough would look hideous, even if the connection was fast enough via ethernet.

So, here's all the box would theoretically have to do in order to have even RELATIVE interest:

1) Play all PS2 games that exist (if it's just repackages PS2 hardware, as the diagram insinuates, this would be a given)

2) Have enhancement features that make it worth the purchase (upscaling to 1080p at a minimum, otherwise there's absolutely no benefit for this over a PS2 by itself)

3) Actually work

4) Not look absolutely hideous in terms of connection to the main system (let's face it: people treat the PS3 like a media center more than any other system these days, so it's gotta have clean wiring and at least SOME redeeming visual aesthetic)

5) launched at a price point competitive to the PS2 solo unit (essentially cannibalizing their own product line but this needs to be priced to encourage a prospective PS2 system buyer to buy a PS3 with PS2-compatibility adapter instead)

Since it's just a patent, I'm not sure how hopeful I would be about a product actually coming to market based on the idea. It is a very interesting idea for sure, though, but seeing how things like the GoW PS3 collection, and the recently announced revamps of Ico/SotC have good profitability...