Nintendo Wii U

[The Damned]

Having played with a Wii U today at a Toys R Us, I would actually rather have a Nintendo tablet system. I just liked how it felt and it looked pretty good on that screen. Make the space between controls and the edge of the screen a bit smaller, give it a slightly bigger screen, and I would buy one.

[Brandon Strader]

And this may explain why the Wii U isn't "all-in-one" obsessive, which worries me... because now I wonder if they will finally catch up and get all concerned about that and that just will disappoint me. That's the one thing I really have liked about Nintendo all these years. They are really concerned about the games more than anything else.

They tried, with TVii and stuff. It is just useless though so nobody really talks about it. The gamepad has a pretty neat "TV Controller" interface too.

[Crowbar Man]

EA has a long history of destroying developers and stiffing creativity. Just ask Bullfrog, Westwood, Origin (the Ultima series company), Maxis, and soon BioWare. They also hate competition and will stop at nothing to stop it, including abandoning the Dreamcast because Sega had a good football game developer, and acquiring exclusive NFL license so nobody else can make NFL licensed games. And I won't even get into Origin (Service)

Mass Effect: Developed by BioWare, run into the ground by EA. I enjoyed the trilogy, but I would of enjoyed it more if EA wasn't involved.

Dante Inferno: An okay GOW Clone. GOW/DMC are better.

Shadow of the Damned: Developed by Grasshopper Manufacture / Suda 51 (who I am a big fan of). He never sticks with a publisher. Here is a list of games:

Killer 7 (Published by Capcom) (GCN game)

Contact (published by Atlus) (DS game)

No More Heroes 1 & 2 (Published by Marvelous/Ubisoft) (Wii game)

Zero: Tsukihami no Kamen (Fatal Frame 4) (Published by Nintendo) (Wii game) (Japan Only :/)

Sine Mora (published by Microsoft/Kalypso) (XBLA/PC)

Lollipop Chainsaw (published by Kadokawa/Warner) (360/PS3)

Liberation Maiden (published by Level-5) (3DS Game)

and his next game:

Killer is Dead (published by Kadokawa/Xseed) (360/PS3)

So as you can see, he has nothing to do with EA. Please stop using Shadow of the Damned as some sort of example of EA's creativity. That is all Suda 51.

On that same note: Nintendo is publishing/funding two exclusive games from Platinum Games (Bayonetta 2 / Wonderful 101) whos games are in the same crazy style as Suda 51, but even more polished. I've mentioned this before but it seems you side step it. Wonderful 101 being a completely new IP, and Bayo 2 being a fairly new (and amazing) IP's sequel.

Again, if you don't like Nintendo, why did you get a Wii U in the first place? Obviously your favorite company, EA, is on 360/PS3/XBO/PS4/PC so there wouldn't of been a single need to purchase a Wii U to play their games. In fact, their ports on Wii U are the worst on the console. I mean, if I disliked a company so much, it would be rather odd for me to buy a console that is pretty much guaranteed the only good games on it would be FROM that company. Another question that you often side step.

They were the last company to switch to 4P

I'm scratching my head on this one. Last company to switch to 4P? 4 Player? NES, SNES had 4 player multitap, and N64 had 4 player ports built in (PS1/Saturn/PS2 didn't), how were they the last?

Also, Nintendo generally is the leader in a lot of areas: The Dpad is their design, along with the classic 4 face button and shoulder layout used by every modern controller design. Analog stick was theirs (reintroducing it into the mainstream at least). Rumble was theirs. They were the first to make touch screen gaming big. First to have first party wireless controllers. Motion controls were theirs. A full second touch screen to interact with your console is theirs. (See MS' Smart Glass and Sony's Vita trying to duplicate the functionality, though technically Sony had remote play with certain PSP games, wasn't to the level as Nintendo is taking it, nor touch screen).

Nintendo will always lack in certain areas, but generally they make up for it by doing something completely different, which the market will then copy/follow. They like to be trail blazers, not followers. For better or worse

Edited June 24, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Mirby]

Don't forget to mention that Mario 64 was the genesis of the 3D platformer, and all other cameras took cues from that game's.

Really, you complain that Nintendo isn't original when the large majority of modern gaming wouldn't exist if it weren't for them, if they hadn't been original back then.

If they had never been original, gaming may have never recovered from the crash of '83; they decided to call the games "Game Paks" and the system an "Entertainment System" which are creative ways to say "video game" and "video game system"

Nintendo's been creative for 30+ years when it comes to gaming, and far longer when it comes to other things. The Wii U itself is rather creative in its layout.

So really, I don't see where all the complaints of "Nintendo needs to be original" are coming from when everything they do oozes with it.

[Brandon Strader]

So as you can see, he has nothing to do with EA. Please stop using Shadow of the Damned as some sort of example of EA's creativity. That is all Suda 51.

On that same note: Nintendo is publishing/funding two exclusive games from Platinum Games (Bayonetta 2 / Wonderful 101) whos games are in the same crazy style as Suda 51, but even more polished. I've mentioned this before but it seems you side step it. Wonderful 101 being a completely new IP, and Bayo 2 being a fairly new (and amazing) IP's sequel.

Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101 has nothing to do with Nintendo. Please stop using Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101 as some sort of example of Nintendo's creativity. That is all Platinum Games.

[Crowbar Man]

Yeah that would work if I listed them as Nintendo's games, like you keep saying Shadow is EA's game. Except I specified they were by Platinum games, and Nintendo is just publishing/funding them. However, they are exclusive to the Wii U, a Nintendo platform, and one you own!

Good try though!

Edited June 24, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Ramaniscence]

I mean, you guys can paint it any way you want, but Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, Smash Bros...they're becoming the new CoD/FIFA of Nintendo.

Sure a lot of those earlier titles were great, but they're cranking out Mario titles so fast now they're practically disposable.

I know I'm the minority, but I'm still not in love with Super Mario 3D Land's play style more than Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, and even Super Mario Galaxy and Sunshine to a less extent. The whole experience feels cheapened. Sure we were light on story and narrative before, but now we have no story at ALL. No dialogues, no hubs, nothing just. "Get to the end and get the flag GO!"

The objective is always the same. Point A to Point B by any means necessary GG. They make Mario games in such excess now they've just diluted the whole thing.

Shit, in Super Mario 3D Land 90% of the stages are moving platform, falling bricks, run and jump. They rarely (but do) throw in something new like a top angle stage, a water stage, or a snow stage; the Koopa Kids have 2 models (male or female) their mechanics rarely change... In Mario Galaxy 1/2, Super Mario World, Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario 64 we had whole different "themed" zones: Plains, deserts, forests, mountain tops. We progress through a world, got to explore, followed a story. We don't get that anymore. And that sucks.

Y'know, now that I stop and think about it...what other 3D platformers have had multiplayer as a major selling point of the game? And not as a side mode or anything, but as part of the main, actual game?

You mean besides New Super Mario Bros Wii and New Super Mario Bros Wii U?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Ramaniscence

[Crowbar Man]

I mean, you guys can paint it any way you want, but Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, Smash Bros...they're becoming the new CoD/FIFA of Nintendo.

Sure a lot of those earlier titles were great, but they're cranking out Mario titles so fast now they're practically disposable.

I really doubt anybody would say 3D Land is disposable, and depending on how 3D World turns out I doubt it will be anymore "disposable" as Galaxy 2 was to 1

"Becoming" is a lot different than "worse than". I don't think anybody is arguing that Nintendo isn't starting to play it safe here with some of their current releases. But none of those games are becoming yearly installments. None of them are unpolished turds. Acting like they are worse than any other major publisher/dev is nonsense. Acting like they ARE the worst major publisher/dev is probably trolling.

You mean besides New Super Mario Bros Wii and New Super Mario Bros Wii U?

How are those 3D platformers when they are clearly 2D?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Lyrai]

Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101 has nothing to do with Nintendo. Please stop using Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101 as some sort of example of Nintendo's creativity. That is all Platinum Games.

Bayonetta 2 exists because of Nintendo. Nintendo was the only company willing to take a chance on it. No other company was willing to take the risk or be that lenient.

You are wrong, everything you say is wrong. Nintendo has a rather big history of being creative. Any other company, after the 64DD or even the fucking Power Pad flopped, would have tightened up into the same shit-spewing bullshit EA has become today. Nintendo does a shitload of creative things each year, and most of it fails, and rarely does one succeed, but hey, welcome to the creative fucking process: not everything is going to be a winner, but if you're actually intelligent, you learn from the failure, you learn what worked, what didn't, and apply it again.

Virtual Boy, e-Reader, GBA-GCN. Christ, all the way back to the Grey Brick era, Nintendo had 5 carts and a keyboard that were part of, no joke, a fucking office productivity suite. The keyboard had a mount on it for the gameboy, you plug it in via the link port, and it was shit like a scheduler and day planner. They were doing crazy shit that far back.

[Lyrai]

I mean, you guys can paint it any way you want, but Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, Smash Bros...they're becoming the new CoD/FIFA of Nintendo.

Sure a lot of those earlier titles were great, but they're cranking out Mario titles so fast now they're practically disposable.

I've yet to find one of these titles that was ever bad or unplayable. At worst, they're very polished retreads.

And to further tie this in, it's the pile of money they make on these games that allow them to drop cash on crazy shit that may explode right out of the gate. I imagine just one Mario title funds 4-5 crazy experiments. I'm more than willing to deal with New Super Mario Bros U Wii Awesome Next Turbo Edition on the shelf, if it means Nintendo's comfortable telling Suda51 "Here's a sack of money, go nuts, tell us when you're ready to ship."

[Ramaniscence]

People enjoy Call of Duty and FIFA and Madden and Halo and Battlefield. All they ever do is add a small amount of new features, polish up the graphics, and preserve most of the core gameplay mechanics.

How is that anything different from what Nintendo is doing at all? How is Nintendo better and more innovative? Because they added Z Axis (something not new to Mario) and simultaneous multiplayer (something not new to Mario) into the same game? C'mon.

[Bleck]

People enjoy Call of Duty and FIFA and Madden and Halo and Battlefield. All they ever do is add a small amount of new features, polish up the graphics, and preserve most of the core gameplay mechanics.

How is that anything different from what Nintendo is doing at all?

platformers are defined by mechanics wherein you control a character in a certain fashion to traverse stages; every Mario game has not only significant differences in control because of the addition and/or removal of power-ups, but also unique stages compared to every other Mario game

the difference between saying that Call of Duty arguably being the same every time and saying that Mario games arguably being the same every time is that

Call of Duty and etc. actually reuse the same mechanics in each game, and there are next-to no distinguishable differences from game to game other than the addition of new weapons which function the same way as previous weapons

whereas a Mario game that is basically the same as a previous Mario game is, by virtue of Mario games being platformers, literally impossible from a design perspective

comparing two Mario games and saying that they're basically the same is more or less synonymous with saying "hey I don't know anything about video game design", whereas the difference between Call of Duty 12 and Call of Duty 13 are more akin to the difference between Super Mario Bros. and the version of Super Mario Bros. included in Super Mario All Stars; different in a visual capacity, maybe fixed up a bit coding wise, but is otherwise the same damn game

[Brandon Strader]

the difference between Call of Duty 12 and Call of Duty 13 are more akin to the difference between Super Mario Bros. and the version of Super Mario Bros. included in Super Mario All Stars; different in a visual capacity, maybe fixed up a bit coding wise, but is otherwise the same damn game

hey I don't know anything about video game design

This is just your sig you don't got to be this IRL

[Bleck]

way to go brandon you've totally proven me wrong with that retort

let's all have a round of applause

[Mirby]

well to be fair there really was no way to counter your post, bleck

although because of that there was really no need for a post in response at all, especially not a petty one like that

[Brandon Strader]

way to go brandon you've totally proven me wrong with that retort

let's all have a round of applause

Did I need to prove you wrong? You said it's impossible for platformers to be the same because they're platformers. I honestly found it such a silly line of reasoning that I didn't realize it was intended to be responded to seriously.

[Mirby]

Considering his post was in response to Rama and not you, I don't think you needed to do anything.

But that's neither here nor there. This is a thread about the Wii U, not about attacking other people under the guise of it being on-topic when it's anything but.

Plenty of indie devs on Kickstarter are looking at the Wii U as a viable platform to publish on; this excites me. Shows that Nintendo has learned their lesson from the abysmal experience that was WiiWare.

[Dexie]

I mean, you guys can paint it any way you want, but Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, Smash Bros...they're becoming the new CoD/FIFA of Nintendo.

Mario, I'll give you, but how the crap are Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, and the rest becoming the Nintendo's FIFA or whatever when those games usually get one, maybe two installments per system? It's not like they're being pushed out every single year like CoD/FIFA/Madden or whatever, and for the most part they make sure to make each new installment of those different than the last.

[Mirby]

Lessee...

Zelda - Last brand new game was 2011, even if you count OoT3D. Before that the last new one was 2009, and 2007 before that. Hardly an annual series when there's been two years between installments. Each game brings rather new mechanics to the fray as well, and usually a new visual flair as well.

Metroid - Last new one was 2010 with Other M, before that (skipping Prime Trilogy since that was, well, a collection of the Prime games) was Prime 3 in 2007 and Prime Hunters the year before. 04-06 were the peaks of the Prime series, with several games released (including Prime Pinball), and before that was Fusion in 2002 with Prime the same year, and Super Metroid being a whole 8 years previous. With no new game in sight, this also is hardly an annual series. Several different visual styles here, and the mechanics change wildly between the main series and Prime due to the latter being an FPS. You could only compare Metroid to CoD in this regard, and that's only a subseries of the franchise, not the whole thing.

WarioWare - 2003, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2013. These are the release years for WarioWare games. Innovation? This is where you'll find it; each installment is designed to take advantage of a key piece of hardware. The original didn't, but it was the first, and introduced the microgame concept. From there, we had a game that relied on a gyroscope (before any systems did), a touch screen (it was an early DS title), a camera, the motion sensors of the Wiimote, the creativity of the player, and now the Wii U tablet, among others. Really, when a series has THIS much variety in it, I fail to see how any comparisons can be made to the annual, barely-any-more-features-than-last-year's cookie cutter titles you've brought up.

Smash Bros. - 1998, 2002, 2008, 2014. Four games. Each brings something new to the table, adding (or removing) mechanics completely for the experience of playing. Sakurai himself has said Smash is more of a sport than a fighter, so I suppose that's a comparison that can be made with FIFA, but only because HEY THEY ARE BOTH SPORTS. Which is a rather broad comparison.

After explaining it this way, I guess you can indeed paint it any way you want. But only if you're painting your eyes first so you're blinding yourself to reality.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Mirby

[Cerrax]

I have always admired Nintendo's quality, innovation, and creativity. Unfortunately, I don't like the direction the company has gone and I can't really figure out why. Ever since the Gamecube, I haven't really liked anything Nintendo has done. It's not that it's bad, or uninspired, I think I just grew apart from it.

I'll admit, I've never liked Mario. Starfox Adventures and Assault pretty much murdered that franchise for me. Same with Wind Waker, I really didn't like most of what they did with Zelda. By all accounts I wanted to like Twilight Princess,a photorealistic mature Zelda game, but I just didn't like it. Even Smash Bros Brawl failed to keep my attention for more than a few months. Metroid Prime also failed to entice me, despite my professed love for Super Metroid.

I placed all my chips on the Wii. I thought I'd give them another chance. The GC was bad, but the Wii sounded so fresh and new and exciting. I haven't used my Wii in over two and half years. Something happened to Nintendo. I'm not sure what it is, but I just don't give a crap what they do anymore.

[Devyn]

The Wii was actually one of my favorites. It had a lot of good games, and while I gave it to my brother (I have Wii U and Gamecube to cover that now), I don't regret buying it at all. Nintendo's first party games easily justified my purchase on a personal level. But everybody has their tastes and I can respect that.

Anyway, I think the company is finally making strides to catch up with HD development and online play. They've really come a long way and have admitted to their flaws that need fixing...And people are giving them a lot of crap right now...It's cool to hate Nintendo again, while last gen they were looked at as 'heroes of the console market' for a few years at least. I expect a big turnaround next year, not just with sales, but with general acceptance of the console. When Kart and Smash hit, assuming their online play is truly where it should be (and from the few online experiences I've had on Wii U, they were consistent and fun), perhaps the gamers and the media will quit trying to write the console off.

I really want to see the Wii U do well. Call it fanboyism or whatever but the console has so much potential and I want to see it prosper. Hopefully it will next year. This year is still going to be a little patchy if you ask me. Still, seeing games like Mario Kart in HD looking so good, I can't wait to see what their more 'mature' franchises look like when they arrive.

[liquid wind]

I mean, you guys can paint it any way you want, but Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, Smash Bros...they're becoming the new CoD/FIFA of Nintendo.

Metroid has never been a really mainstream series in spite of how highly regarded it is by its cult audience, and Nintendo's attempt at making it more mainstream by being more narrative driven was also a complete train wreck from which the series may never return

I have kinda felt like Mario spinoffs fall into this category for a long time however

[Garrett Williamson]

I'm still behind and looking on the second page, but Crowbar Man, yes I got it wrong, 4P was actually 1st with Nintendo with the N64. lol oops. But adapters were made so you could do 4P on the systems.

Also, I must agree all the new Nintendo stuff is looking more and more like the CoD idea; "the same thing worked last time so why not just do it again". Ugh.

Smash Bros. - 1998, 2002, 2008, 2014.

Wasn't the first one '99? My version is '99 I think and it's the NA version. Maybe I've just forgotten.

[Crowbar Man]

Yeah the original is in 99 (US/JP/EU), and Melee was actually 2001 (US/JP, 2002 PAL)

Everybody:

As everybody has already pointed out, there is maybe 1 or 2 entries to each of these series per Nintendo console, often spaced years apart. On average your average developer/publisher these days produce 3+ games in a series per console, and are far more copy/paste approach than what happens in Nintendo's games.

Pikmin 2 came out in 2004 for goodness sake.

I mean, if you just don't like that there is a lot of fun games coming out from Nintendo, or don't like the style of Nintendo's games in general, that is fine.

But why would you buy a Wii U to begin with if you didn't like Nintendo? That is the biggest enigma here.

EDIT: Let me put this into some more perspective:

On the Wii there are 3 only Mario platformers: New Super Mario Wii (2D), Super Mario Galaxy (3D), Super Mario Galaxy 2 (3D). NSMBWii is completely different than SMG but lets just put these together to BOOST their numbers.

There are nine Call of Duty games on the Xbox 360, and more being made, all basically the same

There are six Halo games out on the 360, all basically the same.

There are nine Madden games on the 360, almost identical.

There are nine FIFA games on the 360, almost identical.

How on earth is Nintendo worse?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Garrett Williamson]

But why would you buy a Wii U to begin with if you didn't like Nintendo? That is the biggest enigma here.

Possibly because there are more third-party games between the ratings of T and M. I could be wrong, but that's a guess.