Garian

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So yesterday I was in a 5's game with a group of friends and the enemy team ran the following champions: Amumu, Morgana, Wu Kong, Gangplank, and Maokai. The comp was extremely scary because none of us could really initiate in a team-fight for fear of an 'ult-bomb'. They we're good enough to save them until a real fight started and soundly beat the crap out of us using this strategy, it was one of the few games where I really couldn't think of a winning strategy.

How do you beat a team like this?? My first thought was trying to separate and gank them individually, but towards the middle portion of the game, they literally just stuck together - making that strategy nearly impossible to pull. Also the team has a really strong poke in the lane, no one wanted to get near them for fear of getting entirely locked down.

Any suggestions when facing a team like this?

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Any suggestions when facing a team like this?

Split push, forcing them to either split up, which should allow you to have a better shot at winning smaller fights, or lose a tower. Either way, you get what you want out of the exchange.

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So yesterday I was in a 5's game with a group of friends and the enemy team ran the following champions: Amumu, Morgana, Wu Kong, Gangplank, and Maokai. The comp was extremely scary because none of us could really initiate in a team-fight for fear of an 'ult-bomb'. They we're good enough to save them until a real fight started and soundly beat the crap out of us using this strategy, it was one of the few games where I really couldn't think of a winning strategy.

How do you beat a team like this?? My first thought was trying to separate and gank them individually, but towards the middle portion of the game, they literally just stuck together - making that strategy nearly impossible to pull. Also the team has a really strong poke in the lane, no one wanted to get near them for fear of getting entirely locked down.

Any suggestions when facing a team like this?

I agree that split pushing would be a good option. If this was a normal game you had no way to counter-pick, which sucks. Basically it's heavy on DPS and CC which you would probably get around with stuff like Banshee's Veil/QSS, and then use items like Black Cleaver/Madred's to whittle down high HP and focus 'em.

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the big damage dealers are kong and morg, with mao and mummy not dealing tons of burst damage, and mao not doing much late. the key is to never fight them together, and ward like mad =)

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Most damage taken by a long shot. Least amount of deaths. I'm happy Wukong got a new skin or I wouldn't be giving him as much attention as I am.

Edit: Also to say how beat a certain team comp we need to know what tools you have at your disposal. What was your team running? Some things just aren't going to be possible for some teams with blind pick depending on who is playing what hero. It can be pretty brutal.

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I've had the game for a while, but never really played past the tutorials. I played a few all-bot matches last night and I'm getting the basics figured out.

Who are some good champions to start out with?

Oh, and my summoner name is Kanthos

Edited by Kanthos

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Udyr is really really good. Played him in two ranked and two normals, haven't lost yet. Just now I was tiered out with Wriggle's, Mercs, Atma's, Triforce, Wit's End and Banshee's, and I managed to take down a similarly decked Graves when I was at half health. Ridiculous. He's just an unstoppable force endgame with over 200 AD, 180 resistances, 3000 health, lifesteal, a self-shield, stun, AOE...

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udyr single-handedly proves that riot has no idea how to balance their game

except he's incredibly susceptible to cc - just like other "broken" characters like skarner, xin, garen, riven, singed, and the new jax. if he's on you, exhaust him. if he's on someone else, stun him and cremate him. his early game laning is tough, because he has no mana so it's easy to blow through it all and you have to be pretty passive early, and his jungling isn't super easy because he has no close the gap and often can't finish off champs solo before he gets items. he's really dangerous with a few kills...but that's just like everyone else.

kanthos - yi is pretty fun, especially AP yi (alpha strike and meditate ftw!) on dominion. as for burst casters like Annie, they're always really good at the lower levels where people don't know how to focus damage. once you've played a lot, you'll find that burst casters get focused down and busted up early, but a character like annie can still carry pretty easy.

Edited by prophetik music

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if he's on you, exhaust him.

udyr bear stances

exhaust udyr

udyr bear stances again

udyr's strength isn't so much in ganking from the jungle so much as it is his sustain and his invasion/dueling capability - I am fairly certain only skarner and lee sin are the junglers that could take him in a straight fight, maybe trundle if he's lucky and maybe shaco if he's got boxes in good places

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I think Trundle stands a good chance after his first back. He's a great brawler in the jungle esp if you took the time to come to him.

In other news I am really having fun with my Wukong kick right now.

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udyr single-handedly proves that riot has no idea how to balance their game

I think their balance is good, but yea, Udyr is insanely OP. Trundle is good too, but at least one tier below. He is even more of a beast than Udyr when his ult is up, at which point he's basically unkillable, but his damage output is not as high, and he doesn't have any AOE damage. Still, good luck running from a Trundle with Frozen Mallet, his Contaminate on the ground, and Pillar of Filth. On the other hand, if his ult is down, he's not too hard to 1v1 (though he can always pillar + run at the end). His damage is just too low.

Edited by zircon

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I actually really like Morello's. I only get it on Ahri and Xerath but still. Malady and Cleaver still have their place in a good number of my builds.

Just remember that Wriggles used to be stronger. The nerf was pretty bad. The 500 bonus damage used to be physical so you'd heal for massive amounts. As it is though, everyone should still be buying it. At the moment all the best team comps have at least 3 of them. It's all about that little bit of extra armor and the bonus damage to creeps. The damage and lifesteal are just gravy.

Edit: Also the problem with a lot of builds in general in LoL is that Doran's items are far too efficient. 3x Doran's Blade/Ring and boots is how I play almost every AP and AD character. It's just too good. It's not like DotA where you have to fear losing gold to buy that big ticket item. You just the most efficient gear, level faster, earn even more gold through kills and easier cs and then afford the big ticket items with little to no detriment to your team. Hell, I'd argue that 3x Dorans and finishing Berserker's/Sorc's is better than having either a BF Sword or a Needlessly Large Rod. It's not just a great safety net if things ever go sour cause but that's also a solid 300HP and AP/AD with mana regen/lifesteal. Though that's just higher level DotA-type gameplay in general: use your item build to survive and use your level advantage to get kills.

Edited by eternal Zero

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I almost never stack Doran items in any situations. I think the benefits of getting staple items is a lot better than getting Doran's.

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I almost never stack Doran items in any situations. I think the benefits of getting staple items is a lot better than getting Doran's.

while i usually don't either your opinion is unfortunately incorrect usually getting 2 is the smartest thing you can do if you get gold quickly or don't get gold quickly. it makes you more immune to harass and gives you worthwhile damage/defense/ap to boot. you lose 200 gold ish when you sell it (aka like one and a half minion waves worth) which is very little in the grand scheme of things.

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Re: Doran's stacking: Ancient weapons and hokey religions are no match for skill on your side.

It's just like flash; people who are good will use every advantage they can and min/max their build, and a million sheep will follow suit and play horribly in any case. When they die they'll blame lag, a misclick, or their lane mate and not their own stupidity, hurr durr! Obviously this is less true the further up the ladder you go but there is no shortage of arrogance in this game's community so take it how you will.

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So, Garian, are you just raging generally or are you being self reflective, or are you trying to call someone out?

Part of being good at this game is knowledge. It's the easiest part to get good at, too. You just read and retain. Especially in this iteration of the genre because most LoL builds are pretty optimized for what's available.

Stacking items? Pretty awful.

Dorans? Super efficient.

Gold gaining items, IE, and Rabaddons? Essential.

I mean there are a few gems here and there like Tiamat being amazingly efficient but ultimately hard to place in a build. Or how Ionic Spark is just slightly more efficient than Wit's End but that's only if the chain lightning procs on at least one other unit. But then you're comparing the use of straight health vs a ramping MR.

Also since someone mentioned it a while back and I'm talking about efficiency: Black Cleaver is not an efficient item. It is, however, a preferred alternative to Last Whisper due to being able to switch to it from a 'normal' route at a whim (3x dorans, boots, bf sword goes into both IE or Cleaver) and how it works earlier game when overall armor is not so high. I forget the cutoff but at some point Last Whisper ends up penetrating more armor.

In the end it should be specific situations that warrant an item's use but this game just isn't there yet. Maybe if we had Lightbringer in Summoner's Rift it would be a different story. I see that item being good on almost any part of your team so it'll create diversity in both team comp as well as strategy and overall team build.

Yes, actual mechanics and player skill does mean a lot, but most people are stuck at where they are for various reasons. I think this game has a lot of "you get it or you don't" elements in it and those with the proper intuition thrive and those that do not either stop playing or improve slowly once they hit their burst of improvement from eventually understanding the core mechanics. This genre and design philosophy still revolve around competitive play and winning so get what advantage you can and just build smart.

Okay enough of that. So for whatever reason I'm getting a ton of people in normal games asking me my ELO and then getting mad cause they think I'm lying when I say it's less than 1300. I don't like playing ranked in this game so sue me. It's akin to having someone call you out for hacking in an FPS when you're not. Feels good, man.

I wish I could check my normal queue ELO and KDR but there's no good site for that.

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