Exposure for non-album remixes

[AkumajoBelmont]

Don't forget about Unsung Heroes. That's basically a description of the entire project is underrepresented RPG game musics.

So there's two separate issues then: regular mixposts vs. album mixposts, and not having enough mixposts from obscure games. The latter is always an issue but people will inevitably remix what they want. There will always be more folks remixing Mega Man 2 and FFVII than there will be DarXide, Rad Racer II, or Stunt Race FX. AND we have PRC for that stuff as well, which I fully support because it challenges people to work with things they might not have heard otherwise. DJP's idea is a good one as well.

I only really chimed in to plug VROOM!

[Dj Mokram]

AND we have PRC for that stuff as well, which I fully support because it challenges people to work with things they might not have heard otherwise.

Definitely great to hear that sir, but sadly, PRC might not be around for much longer unless more people support it as well.

On topic: fact remain, there's going to be much more albums created (and released) in the near future, whether they're for popular games or obscure ones.

Which means the backlog of TBP remixes will inevitably increase, whereas djp's days aren't going to stretch to 48hrs so he can post 10 mixes with writeups a day.

Unless you can stop OCR's site & community growth in size and popularity (but why would you?), there simply isn't any practical solution to the exposure problem.

Aside of course from raising the quality bar again to only allow game industry level remixes past the panel, or impose another moratorium on album projects.

Last option would be to allow another senior staff member to post remixes, but as everyone knows: only djp can djp.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

Definitely great to hear that sir, but sadly, Unless you can stop OCR's site & community growth in size and popularity (but why would you?), there simply isn't any practical solution to the exposure problem.

Actually, you just can't think of a practical solution. That doesn't mean there isn't a solution, however. Others in the community should take the time to come up with whatever creative approaches they can to increase exposure. The discussion is worth having.

[Brandon Strader]

I feel like this thread was made so I could spam links to http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02339/

Having said that, I'm cool enough with it, it doesn't bother me D:

[Dj Mokram]

Actually, you just can't think of a practical solution. That doesn't mean there isn't a solution

I just can't think of... wait, what?

Aside of course from raising the quality bar again [...], or impose another moratorium on album projects.

Last option would be to allow another senior staff member to post remixes

Not implying in any way that my suggestions are de facto solutions to the 'problem'.

Simply advising you to read posts in their entirety before passing judgement on someone you don't know.

The discussion is worth having.

That, we can agree on.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

I read your entire post, and taken in its entirety, I got the impression that although you had potential solutions, you believe they are impractical. I'm not trying to attack anyone, so please don't take my posts that way.

More on topic, I actually think having another staff member post ReMixes is a pretty viable solution that deserves more thought. I'm not particularly certain what in the process makes posting new music take so long, so pardon me if there's more to it than I think. I get the feeling from above posts that it's djp's write-ups. As much as I really enjoy and appreciate the analysis and flavor those write-ups add while I'm listening to new ReMixes, I think others in this community could also write quite passionately on this topic too. Ultimately, people come here for the music more than the words about them, so having helpers post more for you would be really beneficial.

The only caveat I see would be posting too much music too fast, consequently shortchanging the amount of time new ReMixes have to be on the front page, and the time people have to absorb those tracks. However, again, I think this is an aesthetic problem that could be solved by re-designing the front page layout somehow. A caring community like this one can always adapt for growth.

[Rozovian]

The problem isn't so much that individual mixes get buried under other mixes (that's kind'a hard to avoid), the problem is the unfair advantage album mixes have over regular ones. It's not like album mixes don't get buried in mixfloods, or during a no-album period as tracks not posted right after the release of an album can lie in wait for a year or more (also depending on whether they were subbed and judged before the album was released, or revised since a subbed/album version).

That ocr will keep posting mixes, more and more of them as there's more and more tracks in the tbp queue, is fairly obvious (to everyone except djp, it seems ). That's something we're not getting away from. How to promote non-album tracks is the problem.

Album tracks are promoted by these means: official trailer, press/fansite/blog coverage, mixflood promoting the album, subsequent posting of album tracks, videos on youtube both as an ocr track and as an album track; and have further advantage in the instant torrent availability. Updating the torrents with every new track isn't practical (or is it?).

An option is to change ocr's modus operandi to post weekly batches of mixes, perhaps connected by some theme*. Post a whole slew of those, let fansites pick up on it, have torrents and stuff ready. These could be done like albums, with trailers and all.

Another is to make the Russian Roulette thing a bigger deal, perhaps by quoting some excerpt of the write-up or reviews, in a bigger box on the front page, or do a "today's remix" thing (we have materials for a few years...).

*eg classic rpgs, shooters, Uematsu, Zelda games, games set in modern times, rare consoles, n00bfl00d, upcoming album games**, Uematsu, western games, games from the 80s, music games, licensed games, indie composers, guitars, vocals, Umatsu, previously unremixed games, iphone games, the brothers Ansari, games with a female protagonist, games not about fighting, artsy games, games covered by Zero Punctuation, tracks from competitions, European remixers, female remixers, remixers with 8-letter names, Uematsu...

**wait...

Again, lemme stress that I'm just throwing ideas out there without them necessarily being even feasible. You should know what 90% of everything is and that it applies to my posts too.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

That sounds pretty cool, and I like that you're thinking. The only thing I'd worry about themed batch releases is that it would push back posting stuff by artists who choose to do something different that may not fall within a theme. That is, unless you mean releasing batches of music in addition to other tracks, which might still create the same problem against a minority of tracks that album music does. Whatever is done, I think it should encourage as much quality and musical creativity as possible, because that's the bread and butter of OCR.

Spinning off of Rozovian's idea, how about devoting certain days of the week to posting a batch of mixposts(regardless of theme)? Mixpost Days, if you will (call it what you want). You could do a lot of promotion with weekly Mixpost Days, because it's a particular event to focus people's attention toward. People could also make it part of their schedule to check OCR on those days rather than randomly checking and hoping something was posted too.

[Garpocalypse]

What if each remix received a hit counter and each week we would give special honors to a mix that had a minority of hits.

Then we could call it the Weekly "Overclooked Remix".

but I may be missing the point here...

I'm always combing through the site to look for hidden gems that I might have Overclooked myself mostly due to:

An unattractive title

A really stupid title

A clever title that makes me feel stupid and unattractive

A game I didn't like

A game I didn't play

A remixer I never heard of

A remixer I don't like

Anything related to Mario (Dec. DoD SEGA vs NINTENDON'T! LET'S THROW DOWN!)

Bro-out to follow

[Brandon Strader]

So you've pretty much never heard a single ReMix

BECAUSE your list describes all of them

[Garpocalypse]

So you've pretty much never heard a single ReMix

BECAUSE your list describes all of them

Jesus Brandon, It's not nice to insult the OCR community like that. To that I could say, "That's why i've never listened to one of yours!" but that would be a lie. I've listened to all of yours. No matter the title. The game. or the fact I don't like you.

Of course I'm kidding.

Really though, I was vainly trying to make light on many of the biases that can deprive a great mix of potential listeners.

And come on! OVERCLOOKED REMIXES? 4 pages and no one thought of that yet?

[Brandon Strader]

Haha yeah, I was making a joke. Sometimes they can be interpreted as "mean" on my part but it's not intended.

And you don't have to pretend to like my music. I KNOW HOW IT IS.

[Rozovian]

An unattractive title

A really stupid title

A clever title that makes me feel stupid and unattractive

These made me smile.

Anyway, the annual December reviews extravaganza OA keeps doing in one form or another got me two connected ideas:

Monthly teasers for upcoming tracks, which would be posted within a month of the teaser. Basically an album trailer, except it's not for an album. These teasers could be theme-based or just for random mixes. Say, a collection of 8 tracks featured in the teaser, to be released within a month.

Tracks as incentives for reviews. If there has been enough reviews within the first half of the month, the tracks featured in the teaser could be released as a mixflood, say, the 14th of every month - if there's been enough reviews. One of the problems with new tracks being psoted on ocr is that it takes a few clicks to listen and find out if you like the track or not.

Having a zip of such a mixflood would let ppl download the whole thing instead and pick and choose from those instead of downloading everything (lotta clicking) or listening to each before downloading (again, lotta clicking). While not really helping the bandwidth thing, it makes things a little more convenient for listeners. Depending on the contents of the teaser/mixflood/zip, there could be tracks in there that ppl otherwise wouldn't choose to listen to, be it from a game they've never heard of, in a style they think they don't like, or whatever. Yay for exposure.

These ideas would increase the need for video ppl (but we know there are a few in the community) and it'd restrict djp's posting liberties somewhat, it'd make it easier to download stuff, might introduce ppl to new games/style/stuff, promotes non-album tracks through the teaser, and increases reviews.

Two cents more from me. In US cents, that's 2.2677 cents. If that matters.

[pokemoneinstein]

I'd just like to say that I'm a big supporter of the OvercLooked ReMix of the Week idea. Bottom two, though, I think would work better, since you can sorta market them as a pair. And the site could have a list of past OvercLooked ReMixes, and I was going somewhere with that idea, but I forgot where XD. Hell, maybe even three a week would be good, but I think I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Rexy]

On the other hand, I'm strongly AGAINST this 'remix of the week' thing. Firstly, there may not be more than one remix in a week (and we've definitely had this a few times), and secondly, it actually discourages the remixers from submitting due to this sudden boost of 'favoritism'. I know I'd be discouraged at least; I'd find it hard enough to get reviews on my OWN material without worrying about popularity. >_>

What I do want to see though is something that may encourage people to give feedback to works, album posts or otherwise. It seems as if the closest link we have now to mass remarks is through Youtube, but then again it's coming down to this changing web environments. Sure, Rozo's ideas may involve more video editors, but if there are people ready to spread the word, then I'm sure the people will support the cause however they can

[Kenogu Labz]

We already have a 'Remix Roulette' system on the front page; maybe making it more prominent would help, if only a little, and the partiality would be entirely removed from the equation.

[Dj Mokram]

And come on! OVERCLOOKED REMIXES? 4 pages and no one thought of that yet?

No offense sir, but: are you serial?

Basically an album trailer, except it's not for an album.

But yes, it is. Look:

Having a zip of such a mixflood would let ppl download the whole thing

That right here is called a collection/compilation. That's the closest thing to an album release really.

it makes things a little more convenient for listeners.

Nope. It decides for them. That's a cowardly and despicable practice known as: 'replacing freedom of choice with bias'.

Yay for exposure.

So you wanna make albums of regular mixes just so they compete with OCR albums for marketshare of listeners from inside the community.

These ideas would [...] promotes non-album tracks through their own album and trailer.

Fixed. And we've come full circle.

We already have a 'Remix Roulette' system on the front page; maybe making it more prominent would help, if only a little, and the partiality would be entirely removed from the equation.

Agreed. Simple to put into motion and effective. Partiality though, is still somewhat unavoidable.

[Kenogu Labz]

It's tough to be partial when you're a pseudo-random number generator.

[Rozovian]

You're totally contributing to the thread and the discussion, Mokram.

[Pavos]

Hmmm... this is difficult. While albums certainly get much attention through teasers, press releases, trailers, etc, I don't think the individual songs get more attention. I think it's more on the contrary.

There are very little track-by-track reviews from people for albums. Much kudo's for the few who actually do this, but it's VERY time consuming. That way, individual album tracks don't get much reviews. This is especially true if the albums are very big (30-50 tracks), that scares a lot of people from doing a whole album review. Also, all the attention and promotion of the album is being divided by 50 tracks. Add to that the fact that the tracks that are most listened to are the tracks by teh "famous" people and you really have little attention for unknown remixers that have a track on a large album.

Solo OC Remixes on the other hand, lack the trailer and the press releases, but have their OWN spotlight, get their OWN reviews and have their OWN release own the YouTube channel, getting many views/attention and even more reviews thourhg the YouTube comments.

To conclude: I think solo OC Remixes get more attention that tracks on albums

[Nabeel Ansari]

You're totally contributing to the thread and the discussion, Mokram.

Dude, Mokram's right. All of your suggestions are just reiterations of the same problem with a different name. You're essentially saying "all OCReMixes need to be part of albums now" with some wording to make it look like you're supporting individual mixposts.

There is no "lack of exposure" for individual OCReMixes. Every OCRemix gets pimped on facebook, twitter, its own video on youtube, and a spot on the front page. There's nothing "unfair" here. You're talking as if OCR is violating economic rights or something. Just because they don't get trailers or emails to everyone doesn't mean people don't ever listen to them. Individual mixposts get a lot more spotlight than album mixfloods because they stay on the front page for a while. Album mixfloods get buried (under themselves).

[Rozovian]

Dude, Mokram's right. All of your suggestions are just reiterations of the same problem with a different name. You're essentially saying "all OCReMixes need to be part of albums now" with some wording to make it look like you're supporting individual mixposts.

No he's not, and no I'm not (read the entire thread instead of jumping on the last page - it's not even a long thread). The convenience of downloading an entire album by torrent far outweighs individual mix pimpage via teh twitterz. Downloading and listening to individual mixes is an inconvenient process, tracks are released irregularly and with little notice that doesn't get buried in floods of other posts (this is coming from someone who doesn't even follow that many ppl or have that many friends).

While you're both right in that album tracks can get overlooked because they've already been a part of an album, that problem is worse for tracks not part of albums but of the same games. How many thought Brandon's and Wildfire's track was just another from the Zelda album? At first glance, I sure did. A day later, it's pushed back by another album mixflood. We're not gonna un out of albums any time soon. This isn't a valid concern?

You don't like my suggestions? You don't have to. COME UP WITH SOMETHING YOURSELF, THEN.

[Nabeel Ansari]

(read the entire thread instead of jumping on the last page - it's not even a long thread).

I did read the whole thread.

You don't like my suggestions? You don't have to. COME UP WITH SOMETHING YOURSELF, THEN.

You can't throw "come up with your own suggestions" to people who point out flaws in yours. It doesn't work like that. Especially because I don't think there is a problem, and I have no need to care about what we can do to fix a non existent problem.

You're assuming that the only reason people don't listen to individual remixes is that they don't make trailers and send out email notifications for mixposts.

[Level 99]

Y'all calm down, y'here?

We have a staff meeting this Wednedsay. This will all be brought up then. Keep it civil until then.

And no, albums wont stop being released, and no, mixposts wont stop happening outside of albums. There's plenty to go around for everyone, and people will listen to what they want to in the end. Really there is a lot of overreacting going on now.

And Rozo, Mokram's answering specific statements which is contributing to the thread. There is no harm there.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

On the other hand, I'm strongly AGAINST this 'remix of the week' thing. Firstly, there may not be more than one remix in a week (and we've definitely had this a few times), and secondly, it actually discourages the remixers from submitting due to this sudden boost of 'favoritism'. I know I'd be discouraged at least; I'd find it hard enough to get reviews on my OWN material without worrying about popularity. >_>

Rexy: I don't agree with the one "remix of the week," idea for the reasons you stated, but would additional staff being allowed to post remixes increase the amount of remixes that could be posted? That is, would this allow for a situation where there would be more than one remix per week, seeing as there's apparently a large backlog of remixes waiting to be posted?

The rest of you people need to chill out. If you don't feel there is a problem, your further participation in this thread is unnecessary. Your stance is clear, and repeating it won't advance this discussion in any meaningful way.

On the other hand, you could try to look at the "problem" here as "how can we improve OCR's promotion of all of its music?" This is an issue that will always deserve more thought, as this community and the amount of music it provides grows. Creating new promotional ideas and evaluating them for strengths and weaknesses can only help OCR in the long run, so focus on that rather than getting angry at each other. Treat this thread as a discussion for how OCR should adapt to growth.

I would hate to see this thread get locked because of people shitting it up with irrelevant arguments.