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FF6 Remix Project -- 2 Week Extension


Jason Covenant
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Hello Prophecy, hello everyone,

I think I misunderstood the 50% WIP done rule, I suppose this WIP has to be for THIS project, wich mean, we have tu urge do something in a hurry before someone else pick the track? And that any posted remixer can just come in and claim the track we've been working on for hours? Moreover, we can just make an easy one-hour-made 50% remix of a track, then begin the real work from zero, in a totally different style when we are considered having claimed it?

Dura lex, sed lex. Nevertheless, allow me to express my humble disagreement to such a rule, wich emphasises speed and not quality.

At first I was thinking any 50% WIP piece will be ok ^^'

Well, forget about it, I'm putting myself to work.

FYI, I'll try to make something for the phantom forest and opening theme.

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And that any posted remixer can just come in and claim the track we've been working on for hours?

There's a lot of open track and in the space of a few hours I think the chance of that is slim. If that should happen, don't worry, your remix can still be on the project. Once the entire tracklist is filled, you can remix anything. So if someone gets to a track before you do, you can still remix it later. We'll have bonus disc(s) for the extra tracks. Right now we're focusing on making sure everything is filled. Once that is done, the sky is the limit.

FYI, I'll try to make something for the phantom forest and opening theme.

Sounds good.

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. If that should happen, don't worry, your remix can still be on the project. Once the entire tracklist is filled, you can remix anything. So if someone gets to a track before you do, you can still remix it later. We'll have bonus disc(s) for the extra tracks.

Thank you for clarifying this.

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And that any posted remixer can just come in and claim the track we've been working on for hours?

Most people are considerate enough that if they know someone is already working on the track they would choose something else. Communication is the key, keep Prophecy updated and he might be able to steer people away from it if he knows you're actually working on it.

I do think it'd help to mark the tracks in the main post that have been tentatively claimed by unposted remixers so people who don't read the entire thread would be aware that someone is attempting to claim the track. Again, communication is key, and letting people know what tracks are already being worked on might guide them to an uncovered track which would help fill out the list.

Of course if a posted remixer wants to take a track that's already being worked on by an unposted remixer, that could still happen with the rules of the project. I just like to believe in the goodness of people and think they would choose a different track if they were aware of the situation.

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You know, it's hard to get posted due to standard. I'd like to participate but I fear my track won't pass the panel. I'm still not posted in a year or so. I continue my hard work till this happen. But if any posted mixer wanna collab, I'm open. I'd like to mix the battle theme in Drum & bass style. And forward with the fanfare In any kind.

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Oh damn... I was just coming in here to express my interest in possibly working on a track or two. I had a jazz/big band idea for "Wild West", possibly with some live brass and sax, and a piano-centric arrangement idea for "Shadow's Theme", but I see that Jake grabbed them both! Oh well, he'll do a good job! Perhaps I'll still work on them anyway at my leisure, since it sounds like Jason is saying we will have bonus tracks.

Good luck with the project! A remix project for this game seems way overdue!

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You know, it's hard to get posted due to standard. I'd like to participate but I fear my track won't pass the panel. I'm still not posted in a year or so. I continue my hard work till this happen. But if any posted mixer wanna collab, I'm open. I'd like to mix the battle theme in Drum & bass style. And forward with the fanfare In any kind.

Let me try and be somewhat inspirational with this.

Six years ago, even though I got posted twice, I decided to stop submitting to the panel because I felt that just sending tracks to the site to see them get rejected wasn't doing my well-being any good. I still kept myself semi-active, contributing tracks for site projects and writing music more at leisure. I considered myself one of those "fluke remixers" thinking that I couldn't get past the panel with anything without someone else's help, but I pressed on, still taking feedback as I saw fit while feeling more relaxed due to less judge-related streses.

And yet, in spite of this, WillRock - one of OCR's greats - saw me as an inspiration in regards to arrangement primarily due to what I have contributed in these site projects. He used three of my four Tales tracks to promote Summoning of Spirits in a video upon release (and back then he wasn't even posted), and then nearly 3 years later he went and had over 20 of his own mixes posted! True, it wasn't until 2010 that I plucked up the courage to try the panel again, and even now I consider my production skills to be rather meek, but even at that I have been keeping a positive outlook over what I have been doing. And you should probably do the same too with your own musical growth.

Being able to pass the panel may be a requestite to instantly claim a track here, but it's not a definite component if you're in there to make music. I definitely won't make a claim on another song if someone made one already, and I really trust that other remixers will still follow that etiquette; but if you can prove yourself by making a good sketch that catches Jason's attention, then that's gift enough rather than worrying about the panel :)

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It's not meant to be a judgement on any individual person. Some jobs require a college degree. Doesn't mean everyone without a college degree is worthless, only that people with one have demonstrated something.
Sure, there have been numerous people without degree who managed to run companies and lead successful lives.

However, you're saying that despite being active within the community, not having an OCR degree (artist profile) means you're worthless for the job.

Turning an open colaborative effort into a headhunt with priority to diplomed candidates is exactly what "passing judgement on any individual person" means.

Now don't worry, I'm not gonna argue or derail this any further, for this is your project and I respect that. Let's just move on to recruitment matters. :)

I'm sorry, but I may have accidentally deleted your PM, please resend.

Oh, you mean right after having listened to the wip:

bxprj2.png

How convenient. :roll:

It is not my intention to ignore anyone.

Then maybe start by not ignoring the people who are trying to actively contribute to your project. ;-)

PS: I'd like to bring one last thing to your attention.

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See? This is why I'm not having any sort of "must-be-posted" mentality on my Cid project; avoids unnecessary drama that takes up time that could be better spent mixing.

Also, to claim that doing so makes the rules be fair for everyone doesn't really mean much if the rules themselves are unfair.

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Oh, you mean right after having listened to the wip:

Like I said, I may have accidentally deleted it, please resend. A lot of people send me music, and it may not have clicked what the purpose was for or I may have loaded it and forgot to listen. Regardless, I'm suggesting you resend it, or better yet, post it to this thread. I did say in the original post that my preference was the wip's be made public:

please post wip's to the thread.

The main reason is group involvement, collabs, critiques, etc. But another very good reason is because OCR's pm system has never really agreed with me much, particularly because OCR tends to false flag some of my pm's as read or unread when the opposite is true, and I have a terrible short term memory. A recipe for disaster. Posting to the thread is much safer and eliminates the possibility of something being lost or unintentionally ignored.

However, you're saying that despite being active within the community, not having an OCR degree (artist profile) means you're worthless for the job.

Turning an open colaborative effort into a headhunt with priority to diplomed candidates is exactly what "passing judgement on any individual person" means.

If I felt that anyone with no posted remixes was worthless, why allow them to join at all? Standards, by definition, are not "passing judgement" on individuals but quite the opposite. It's setting certain requirements that are applied consistently, not on an individual basis.

Also, to claim that doing so makes the rules be fair for everyone doesn't really mean much if the rules themselves are unfair.

If a person wants to do a track, they're going to be doing a 50% done wip anyways. They don't have a posted track record on OCR, so it's helpful to see what they'd do with the track before we let them claim it. Let me ask you something Mirby, would you accept a track that was completely awful? Why not? Isn't that unfair to exclude someone because they can't mix? There have to be some sort of standards. There's nothing unusual about this at all. A lot of projects allow posted remixers to make direct claims while others must do something else, such as audition. By requiring a wip instead of an audition, we are being more inclusive.

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To be honest, I can really appreciate what people are saying here.

The system seems really weak. What if a mixer hasn't contributed anything since 2003? Does that still give them credibility even though the site standards have changed considerably since then?

Conversely, As Bonkers stated, there are some people who already have songs passed by the judges that just haven't been posted yet.

Why not do something in between? Give posted mixers a direct claim and give everyone else a short period of time to get you their 50% WIP (A week or so)? Seems to me like that would fix most of the problems.

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To be honest, I can really appreciate what people are saying here.

The system seems really weak. What if a mixer hasn't contributed anything since 2003? Does that still give them credibility even though the site standards have changed considerably since then?

If their WIP is terrible, it can still be rejected.

Why not do something in between? Give posted mixers a direct claim and give everyone else a short period of time to get you their 50% WIP (A week or so)? Seems to me like that would fix most of the problems.

That sounds like a viable idea to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

The problem with allowing too many claims is you end up with situations where some people will sit on a track and not work on it while another person may be waiting, really wanted to work on it and be denied. That's also why claims with no wip are limited to just a month. A week is a short enough period of time that that shouldn't be an issue.

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If a person wants to do a track, they're going to be doing a 50% done wip anyways. They don't have a posted track record on OCR, so it's helpful to see what they'd do with the track before we let them claim it. Let me ask you something Mirby, would you accept a track that was completely awful? Why not? Isn't that unfair to exclude someone because they can't mix? There have to be some sort of standards. There's nothing unusual about this at all. A lot of projects allow posted remixers to make direct claims while others must do something else, such as audition. By requiring a wip instead of an audition, we are being more inclusive.

I'm aware of all of this. I was just pointing out that it may seem to some folks that the rules are unfair at their core, and your defense of them (and applying them equally) may not work with how they see the rules.

Just a point. And hey, I see you've got a lot of good claims already.

I just like to avoid ALL drama if I can, hence why I mentioned that. This could all have been avoided if you had made it evident that claims would be based on WIP, instead of posted status as you had inadvertently made it sound.

As for the Cid project, I'll let anyone on, as long as they can provide a quality sample of their work. If I've heard their stuff before, I don't require that as I already know what they are capable of. But as for others who I'm unfamiliar with, I'm going to ask for that. It's not singling them out, it's just I need to know where I can hear their stuff. Which is a step skipped with those I know.

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I may have accidentally deleted it, [...] I may have loaded it and forgot to listen. [...] I have a terrible short term memory. A recipe for disaster.
Sorry to say, but this does not exactly exult the kind of confidence and self-control people come to expect from a director.

If nothing, it shows some notable management issues and a poor level of care about the project/persons.

My track was accessed yet again yesterday around 5pm, and you're the only one who has the link. Coincidence?

Look, the sooner you stop treating people like imbeciles, the sooner you can start building some trust with them.

If the wip of the arrangement isn't to your liking, simply say so. No hard feelings, we'll just move on.

But please don't hide behind made-up stuff to try and protect your stature:

OCR tends to false flag some of my pm's as read or unread when the opposite is true

A bulletin board isn't a sentient being. Integrity, however, is its own reward.

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I've gotta say something man.

I was looking at taking a track. FF6 is one of my favourite games. EVER.

But looking at the communication and synergy you have going... not likely.

You're just going to drive people away if you're gonna be so uptight about everything.

If I've learned anything through Music, it's that deadlines and good organisation comes after having fun and enjoying music.

Plus, you can't co-ordinate the project from these forums, so posting WIPs here is a bad idea.

Darkesword will totes destroy us all.

Much love.

- Callum

kis kis

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I'm aware of all of this. I was just pointing out that it may seem to some folks that the rules are unfair at their core, and your defense of them (and applying them equally) may not work with how they see the rules.

This could all have been avoided if you had made it evident that claims would be based on WIP, instead of posted status as you had inadvertently made it sound.

I did, in the very first post. Even put it near the top to ensure it would be read.

You can call a track any time in phase 1-6 if you are a posted remixer. If not, you will need to send in a 50% done wip.

And I've already requoted it in this thread before this most recent requote.

I just like to avoid ALL drama if I can, hence why I mentioned that.

Well, drama is often unavoidable. I frankly can't name any projects that were drama free. Sometimes feelings can be hurt unintentionally and misunderstandings can arise. This is FF6, expectations are going to be high and sensitivities will be on display. Indeed, this is less drama than I expected, though there's still time for more. ;)

Sorry to say, but this does not exactly exult the kind of confidence.... people come to expect from a director.

You are right, my unreliable tendencies are not good qualities. If this is an issue for you, then I feel I owe you an explanation. This is a problem I have dealt with my entire life. When I was an infant, I was on the receiving end of some abuse, and consequently have brain damage. Because of this, my neuro-maps dissolve more quickly than is normal. It's not unusual for someone to tell me their name and for me to have already forgotten it before they finish their sentence.

Like many people with disorders, I have developed compensatory behaviors to live as normally as possible. I frequently reread things. I missed a claim earlier in this thread in fact, but through rereading I noticed my mistake and corrected it. I virtually never delete emails or any other forms of contacts. Unfortunately, this is not possible on ocr as there is a pm limit. So, I try to respond immediately to pm's. If I cannot respond immediately, perhaps I need to think about my response, then I will forget until the next time I check my pm inbox. If the pm is accidentally deleted in the process, then I might as well have never received it, as far as my brain is concered.

I don't think any of this will be an issue, if people are willing to contact me and ask me for updates if a day or two has passed. Or if they follow my suggestion in the first post and put their claim in the thread. Also, I have Rexy who is easily one of the most reliable people I know. You can always send things to her as well.

My track was accessed yet again yesterday around 5pm, and you're the only one who has the link. Coincidence?

Actually, if it's in the sitemap for the host it could've been a crawler from a search engine. Or, you could have listened to it again. If I listened to it and hated it like you claimed, one really has to wonder why I'd keep listening to it.

If the wip of the arrangement isn't to your liking, simply say so.

Post it here, and I will give a thorough review. You can resolve this issue at any time you like by just posting to the thread. I have suggested you do this multiple times. I hope you will eventually take me up on this.

A bulletin board isn't a sentient being.

Of course not. But websites can have issues. There's an entire section of the forums dedicated to that purpose.

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I've decided to go with Kuolema's suggestion.

Anyone that has expressed interest in a track up to this point will have a 2 week claim to complete a 50% wip, starting today. In the case of Devil's lab, it will go to Chernabogue who expressed interest in it first if he wants it. If he doesn't complete a wip in that time, it will go to the next person.

I think this resolves all issues and raises no new concerns. Let me know if you have concerns about this policy or suggestions.

In addition, I am seeking forums for sharing more substantive wip's and complete tracks.

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I've gotta say something man.

I was looking at taking a track. FF6 is one of my favourite games. EVER.

But looking at the communication and synergy you have going... not likely.

You're just going to drive people away if you're gonna be so uptight about everything.

If I've learned anything through Music, it's that deadlines and good organisation comes after having fun and enjoying music.

Plus, you can't co-ordinate the project from these forums, so posting WIPs here is a bad idea.

Darkesword will totes destroy us all.

Much love.

- Callum

kis kis

Tuberz, just because Jason had a strict rule in place doesn't mean that the project won't be about having fun with the source material.

In regards to the compositions, if anyone shares me any wips then most often that I will be very open to what you guys do with the arrangement direction and what kind of ideas you will bring towards the table. It doesn't matter whether you've had no mixes posted, 1 mix posted, a handful pending or even a triple CD Greatest Hits album worth of mixes on the site; I will still treat every person equally when it comes to giving feedback.

I'm a little more intimate with the game too - emulated the SNES version not long after I moved house 10 years ago (during the World Cup at that :razz: ) and enjoyed it that much I went and got the PS1 version with my own money. So I know the progression enough to get people steered in the right direction while still making sure they add their ways on what the sources mean to them. I encourage people to really present their feelings :)

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OH whoever said something about getting into contact with Kyle from KNGI , I second that.

It makes it so we can have private discussion on WIPS and in general just about anything in the project that needs to be private.

We used it for Vampire Variations and It was used for Maverick Rising too.

Also: If I get a quick turn around on Battle Theme, I'll look at other songs after I finish my work for FFII which is more of a priority right now. And try to find ways to extend the original arrangements or meet a middle ground so I don't fuck up people's memory of the original songs.

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I've decided to go with Kuolema's suggestion.

Anyone that has expressed interest in a track up to this point will have a 2 week claim to complete a 50% wip, starting today. In the case of Devil's lab, it will go to Chernabogue who expressed interest in it first if he wants it. If he doesn't complete a wip in that time, it will go to the next person.

That's really cool. Thanks for adjusting this rule.

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Tracklist has been updated with the new rule in place. I haven't really had any ideas for Kefka's theme until just a little bit ago. This is rather rough and much less than a 50% wip, but I thought I'd share it with you guys to get your thoughts:

Kefka Remix Wip-1

I'm especially wishy-washy on the intro. I can't decide if I should use orchestral or ambient....or something else. Maybe you'll have a better idea than any of the one's I'm entertaining.

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