World of Warcraft

[Jarvi]

All of Northrend just crashed on my realm and people can't load if they logged in Dalaran. On top of that i'm getting 2.3k ping and severe FPS drops. blizfail.

yea, like 6 guilds on my server are just stuck in Ulduar now

[Buttercup]

The issue being that there really isn't much reason for the factions to exist, much less be in conflict. If they wanted real all-out-war type gameplay, they should've made the Legion or Scourge a playable faction.

Or, you know, put the two factions AT WAR with one another.

It's always Horde and Alliance vs. some greater evil. Yes this is a throwback from the end of WC3, which was awesome, but if that's how the game's gonna be drop the other shoe Blizzard and just let Alliance and Horde mingle.

That and the implementation of hero classes has left much to be desired.

I'm done complaining now.

[Eulogic]

Or, you know, put the two factions AT WAR with one another.

They were only at war when the Horde was possessed by evildemonbloodrarrr. All-out war doesn't make sense when they're both reasonable groups trying to accomplish the same goals.

[Buttercup]

They were only at war when the Horde was possessed by evildemonbloodrarrr. All-out war doesn't make sense when they're both reasonable groups trying to accomplish the same goals.

War with the forsaken would make sense, neither faction has any reason to fully trust them. Plus the forsaken have little allegiance to anyone but themselves, and I've always felt they should be their own little deal, they're only horde-y because they're ugly.

And the only reason the Alliance and Horde have the same goals is because they are still fighting the same battles from WC3, the legion and the scourge. The scourge I can see as a viable story line, but it's like they threw Outlands and the legion into the mix because they were out of ideas. Without some common foe, there'd easily be a way to incite war between the two. I mean elves are, essentially, dicks.

[Eulogic]

The Legion has been the big bad guy since the beginning. The Scourge is just recycling WC3.

The Forsaken joining the Horde makes more sense than the Night Elves joining the Alliance.

[Buttercup]

The Legion has been the big bad guy since the beginning. The Scourge is just recycling WC3.

But we didn't even know about the Legion until WC3, up until then it was just Orcs vs. Humans; Orcs bad Humans good. The story didn't really start developing until WC3, when we found out about Mannoroth's blood, and Sargeras' involvement yadda yadda yadda. Or was that 2? I'm getting them confused now.

The Forsaken joining the Horde makes more sense than the Night Elves joining the Alliance.

And more sense than the Blood Elves even existing.

[Triad Orion]

The Blood Elves themselves and them being in the Horde makes perfect sense. Given the utter betrayal of the High Elves by Garithos in WCIII: Frozen Throne, they were utterly abandoned by the Human Alliance for *no good reason.* Seeing as how the world is filled with angry things trying to kill EVERYTHING (Legion/Scourge/Non-Darkspear or Revantusk Trolls), the High Elves were left to fend for themselves. They weren't given much option in this situation. With Sylvanas helming the Forsaken, and with them as part of the Horde, they had a way in. They knew in part that they would need the Horde's protection to help survive, and more importantly, to reach Outland.

It's a pretty freaking sound reason for them to change and join those they once opposed. Betrayal by their closest allies? Stuck alone and still rebuilding amidst a war far greater they could fight on their own? Yeah. They didn't have much choice, and given the political circumstances within the Horde, it was a good move for both sides. Moreover? All of this on top of fighting a dangerous addiction to arcane magic? I think the Blood Elves have perfect reason for existing within lore, and certainly better reason to exist than the playable, non-Lost or Broken One versions of the Draenei.

And honestly, all-out war is a bad plan for every party involved. Think about it this way: in real life, if you're faced with a threat greater than the guy you've hated for a long time, are you going to wail on him and weaken both of yourselves so the greater threat can destroy you? Yeah. You're not going to do that. It's stupid. And the fact that both Garrosh and Wrynn want to slaughter the other side, they're just being idiotic. There's a reason why Thrall and Jaina are typically more well-liked as characters. Because they actually have *sense.*

And as for the Forsaken wanting to cook up plagues to kill humans, most of them belong to the Royal Apothecary Society under the treacherous Varimathras. It's revealed that while the Forsaken generally dislike the living, not nearly all of them are willing to use the equivalent of biological weapons against the other side, especially considering doing such would jeopardize their own safety within the Horde. Survival is the main concern of the actual, loyal Forsaken. Again, the root of the problem lies with the *Legion* in this case, as Varimathras's loyalty always lied with them.

So all out war between the two factions during World of WarCraft? Generally a very bad plan. I actually rather like the lore of the world where it is; very tense between the two protagonist factions. War is brewing, with little more than common sense holding it back. I don't know, I feel this is a good place for the lore to be; PVP is generally treated as border skirmishes, which works perfectly. Happened frequently in history.

[JoeFu]

BE is horde because Thrall is amazing. He is seriously the best character in WC. That new video introducing Ulduar makes him even more awesome, also made me hate Alliance even more.

[Ramaniscence]

But we didn't even know about the Legion until WC3, up until then it was just Orcs vs. Humans; Orcs bad Humans good. The story didn't really start developing until WC3, when we found out about Mannoroth's blood, and Sargeras' involvement yadda yadda yadda. Or was that 2? I'm getting them confused now.

In WarCraft 1 you kill Medivh who at the time is possessed by Sargeras. Which is how/why he came in contact with Gul'dan and brought the orcs to Azeroth from Dreanor. 'Cause Kil'jaedan was over on that end messing stuff up over there.

[The Xyco]

After browsing WoWiki for a good three hours at work, I can safely conclude that the Warcraft story line is the most grotesquely convoluted piece of work I have ever encountered in a video game. I feel like I have seen all these names and characters, but can't even begin to map it all out. Maybe that's the folly of starting with WoW and trying to backtrack.

This is also why WotLK is such a great expansion. ALL of the new content in the game can be more or less traced to one figure -- and he's on the cover of the box.

[Ramaniscence]

This is also why WotLK is such a great expansion. ALL of the new content in the game can be more or less traced to one figure -- and he's on the cover of the box.

Wait...what? Arthas isn't even a small part of the lore. Shit 3.1 is all about Yogg-Saron, and the old Gods, and the Titans. Malygos is about the Dragon Aspects, which in turn has to do with the Titans. ALL of the Storm Peaks is Titan involved. A good chunk of Borean Tundra, Icecrown, and Dragonblight deals directly with Dragonflights. There's some development on the Infinite/Bronze Dragonflight storyline, as well as the Argent Dawn/Scarlet Crusade stuff. The Deathwing storyline is being continued from the Netherwing Ledge stuff, and the Grim Batol stuff....there's just ore all over the place that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Arthas. Are their even any Scourge IN Storm Peaks?

And pretty much as far as I'm concerned it's all going to lead back to the Legion again, because with Varimithas, Balnazaar, and Mal'Ganis up to the same crud as always, it's almost inevitable that Sargeras and Kil'jaedan are trying to take Arthas down, too.

Also:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bZcxtcc0qmZGxfVofzscq0z

Pretty much the best dual spec ever.

[The Xyco]

The distinction I am making is in relation to Burning Crusade. When I made it to TBC zones, I couldn't figure out why I was going there (on a level beyond just getting to 70 and moar phat loot). Hell, I think I spent about two weeks just fighting different-colored orcs.

Conversely, from the moment I set foot in Northrend, it was ample and clear that I was there to fight Arthas -- first and foremost. Blizz did a good job of not making him the abstraction that Illidian was either, I've encountered him three times now since I've started playing again. I know who his lieutenants and generals are as well when I encounter them.

This is at least the impression I am getting coming into the story arc midway through old-world WoW, given the Death Knight intro, the Thassarian arc, the quests in Borean Tundra and Howling Fjord, Dragonblight, etc.

[Powerlord]

I'm kind of reviving an old topic here, I know...

...but if I'm reading Blizzard's notice right, tonight will have an extended maintenance time for the release of Patch 4.0.1.

Given that the current WoW version is 3.3.5, that means... the Cataclysm that will change the old world starts tomorrow.

On another note, the actual expansion will be released on December 7th.

[lazygecko]

The Cataclysm pre-part is split into 3 parts. First one is this week with the class and talent overhauls, along with starting the pre-shattering event. Patch 0.2 continues the event, and finally with 0.3 we get the post-Cataclysm old world along with the new class/race combos. The expansion itself will give us goblins/worgen and the 80+ areas.

So, WotLK in retrospect has been pretty disappointing overall for me. The one positive thing I can think of is that raiding was made more accessible and I got into it more than before, but ultimately hardcore raiding has never been appealing for me and I've always been more of a PvP guy. None of the WotLK raids were as fun as Karazhan from BC either. They continued with the focus on arena as "real" PvP which I absolutely do not play MMO PvP for, the 2 new battlegrounds were centered around the new vehicle gimmick which was sort of meh. Wintergrasp was alright. Alterac Valley was gimped even further and has become really sad, it's PvP in name only as the two sides rush past eachother to try and kill the PvE boss.

Also the promised new character customization. I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff, and of naturally they had to underdeliver in that territory too. The new haircuts turned out to be half-arsed copypastas from other races that often just look really out of place, far from the type of polish you'd normally expect from Blizzard, and the new dance moves highlighted in the trailer were never implemented at all.

[Powerlord]

The Cataclysm pre-part is split into 3 parts. First one is this week with the class and talent overhauls, along with starting the pre-shattering event. Patch 0.2 continues the event, and finally with 0.3 we get the post-Cataclysm old world along with the new class/race combos. The expansion itself will give us goblins/worgen and the 80+ areas.

I was just reading about some class changes.

Some should have been done long ago, like Hunters no longer needing ammo (it's automagic now!) and Warlocks no longer having to carry around Soul Shards.

Not sure what I think about the changes to Glyphs, though... although permanently learning them would help a lot, it also puts a cap on the Glyph market.

[Ramaniscence]

The Cataclysm pre-part is split into 3 parts. First one is this week with the class and talent overhauls, along with starting the pre-shattering event. Patch 0.2 continues the event, and finally with 0.3 we get the post-Cataclysm old world along with the new class/race combos. The expansion itself will give us goblins/worgen and the 80+ areas.

So, WotLK in retrospect has been pretty disappointing overall for me. The one positive thing I can think of is that raiding was made more accessible and I got into it more than before, but ultimately hardcore raiding has never been appealing for me and I've always been more of a PvP guy. None of the WotLK raids were as fun as Karazhan from BC either. They continued with the focus on arena as "real" PvP which I absolutely do not play MMO PvP for, the 2 new battlegrounds were centered around the new vehicle gimmick which was sort of meh. Wintergrasp was alright. Alterac Valley was gimped even further and has become really sad, it's PvP in name only as the two sides rush past eachother to try and kill the PvE boss.

Also the promised new character customization. I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff, and of naturally they had to underdeliver in that territory too. The new haircuts turned out to be half-arsed copypastas from other races that often just look really out of place, far from the type of polish you'd normally expect from Blizzard, and the new dance moves highlighted in the trailer were never implemented at all.

To me, really, Wrath felt like a Cataclysm test drive. The changes they made to questing (having more comprehensive storylines, phasing) and raiding (every raid being 10/25 man. Hardmodes. Heroic/Raid progression. Badges.) really improved the game a lot for me. I do agree that a lot of the content in TBC was more fun, though.

All this stuff gets totally fleshed out on the Cataclysm beta. Every quest line I've experienced has been nothing short of stellar. The phasing is used effectively (when it works ). The raids dropping the same gear in different quantities. The return to the gameplay NOT being AE mash/afk. Healing becoming more interesting. Hopeful revival of BGs as more people cry that arenas are being "phased out" (which is hardly true).

I'm just excited at the prospects. More than anything though, I'm excited that there's still a lot of stuff in the old world to be fleshed out even now (Ravenholdt comes to mind.)

I also hate how high the texture resolution is on goblins/worgens/thrall when compared to every other race...looks very odd/

[OceansAndrew]

Overall i really enjoyed Wrath, I loved wintergrasp, and raiding was fun (hopefully we'll get heroic lich king down before the expansion, working on phase 3 ATM), and the improvements to everything were great. I do wish cataclysm had updated more graphics than just the new stuff, but damn, that would be an undertaking. I suppose being the unquestionably dominant MMO means they don't have to scramble too hard on non-crucial stuff like new content and game improvements.

I really am excited for healing to be difficult again. Even on Hard modes in ICC, I can afk my way through at least 3 boss fights.

[Ramaniscence]

]

I really am excited for healing to be difficult again. Even on Hard modes in ICC, I can afk my way through at least 3 boss fights.

EVERYONE can AFK for lootship. I'm pretty sure I can just leave that to Saurfang and he'll handle it.

Also: Yea I figure they'll update the textures soon enough, I just look dumb as hell with my stupid orc standing next to garrosh/thrall.

[Nick Hyral]

I look forward to the patch today.. and Cata looks interesting.. sadly I've not had as much fun with the game as I have since Vanilla.. was hard into the raiding scene at that point.. same with BC.. however this one.. raiding isn't what it used to be.. and the quality of players guilds recruit these days is just sad.. "5.5k Gearscore? No problem.. You're with us." The whole expansion felt so impersonal.. I remember guilds in BC and Vanilla doing test runs and such with players.. getting to know them.. Now you can use a PuG and get things.. I really hope Cata brings back a bit of the heart and soul of team work in raiding again.

[Conan The Politician]

I look forward to the patch today.. and Cata looks interesting.. sadly I've not had as much fun with the game as I have since Vanilla.. was hard into the raiding scene at that point.. same with BC.. however this one.. raiding isn't what it used to be.. and the quality of players guilds recruit these days is just sad.. "5.5k Gearscore? No problem.. You're with us." The whole expansion felt so impersonal.. I remember guilds in BC and Vanilla doing test runs and such with players.. getting to know them.. Now you can use a PuG and get things.. I really hope Cata brings back a bit of the heart and soul of team work in raiding again.

I think that's what they're hoping to do with the guild level system, but honestly, I think that will only encourage the development of huge guilds with the bare minimum of personal interaction. It'll be a numbers game for the benefits that the system provides, for most people at least.

[Nick Hyral]

Oh I agree in some respect.. But if you look at it the game should have some structure atleast for group play.. Blizzard themselves said they dislike the PuG community being so dominant when it came to raids. Granted I like the idea better with the flexibility than "Oh three people didn't show up for raid night.. We aren't raiding." which really sucked back in Vanilla. But in the end the 40 mans when you got them together was alot to brag about with a bunch of buddies who were there... Now all I hear on vent from the failed guilds who fell apart because of PuGs were along the lines of "yeah you guys remember that Ruby Sanctum group we had last week? Well I know you and you were there." And here 20 of us sit in vent.. wondering what's going on.. It felt empty to most of us. Even if it's just 10 mans there will atleast be some unity again.. As someone mentioned before I too loved the setting of Wrath, the zones and such (Save for Zul'Drak in my eyes) were a blast.. felt good to quest and not at all a burden like it did to me in BC.. But when it came down to it.. the expansion felt more like I was playing Diablo 2 again.. I get a PuG with 9 other people I don't even know. And as quick as it started there I was.. back out in Northrend with no one as far as the eye could see as I just quested and farmed.

[DarkeSword]

I made you guys a Social Group on the forum.

http://ocremix.org/forums/group.php?groupid=10

You can use it for posting player lists and organizing raids and stuff, if you'd like. Group ownership can't be transferred (yet), but there are practically no restrictions on the group, so anyone can post.

[Powerlord]

I think that's what they're hoping to do with the guild level system, but honestly, I think that will only encourage the development of huge guilds with the bare minimum of personal interaction. It'll be a numbers game for the benefits that the system provides, for most people at least.

Guilds will capped to 1000 people... but 1000 people is still a lot.

I made you guys a Social Group on the forum.

http://ocremix.org/forums/group.php?groupid=10

You can use it for posting player lists and organizing raids and stuff, if you'd like. Group ownership can't be transferred (yet), but there are practically no restrictions on the group, so anyone can post.

Good, now can you kick Liontamer until he patches the forum to a newer version? Following Social groups was added a few releases of VBulletin after Social Groups were introduced... sometime during mid-2009.

Did I mention that there was also a major security flaw patched in a newer version of the VBulletin? And that I brought this up already?

I mean, unless the super admins don't care if someone could potentially steal their admin login details (note that although the thread title doesn't mention it, the body mentions this was fixed in 3.8.5; we're running 3.8.1 from Jan 2009)...

[Vilecat]

Healing was becoming increasingly easy partly because at some point healers just can't go oom anymore (unless you're an undergeared shaman). And then there was the whole pigeonholing into a specific raid job for some classes/specs still. Paladins are godly at single target healing, but aren't very recommended for raid healing, whereas the opposite is completely true for priests. Hell, priests have become rather shitty when it comes to single target healing: as holy you're better at putting them on raid heal with their kickass CDs for the boss when they used X attack, while as disc you're asking them to mitigate as much dmg on as many people as they can deal with (examples that come to mind are Twin valks and Anub'arak from ToC).

As for tanking, I just wish Blizzard will finally have all 4 classes more balanced. I'm tired of seeing 2 tanks fare MUCH better than the 2 others (like bear + pala vs warr + dk in 3.2) and poor itemization all around. I'm eager to see how easy it'll be with the new stat distribution and tree bonuses.

I share mostly the same PoV than Rama and Gecko for WotLK. I've finally been able to enjoy BG PvP more, even though for anything else than EotS, AB and sometimes WSG, things were quite boring (no more vehicles ffs!). Arena PvP was about as attractive to me now than during TBC when I tried with my shadow priest. Quest chains were interesting to do if only lore-wise, the whole phasing was fun and felt immersive (just not fun for mining/herbing) and the regular/heroic system is certainly making things more interesting... Given they finally stop changing things around every new raid release.

Maybe I should start playing again to see the pre-Cata patches. I don't feel like I've been missing much since May 'til now, other than maaaaybe getting my warrior better geared for tanking (she's in T8 mainly with the Crest of Lordaeron still). I'm just sad tree druids will become temporarly (and they're apparently changing the look too, the only form druids haven't asked to touch) and depending of how it works, it might be the last drop to make me switch from healing to tanking. Unless they add tri-speccing. I'm certainly not going to change my kitty spec for bear, rawr! <3

Or I'll just completely switch main character again like I did from TBC to LK. Although I stopped playing my first priest because I was fed up of looking at a BE. Now to decide if I change her into a tauren or a goblin...

[Powerlord]

As for tanking, I just wish Blizzard will finally have all 4 classes more balanced. I'm tired of seeing 2 tanks fare MUCH better than the 2 others (like bear + pala vs warr + dk in 3.2) and poor itemization all around. I'm eager to see how easy it'll be with the new stat distribution and tree bonuses.

I know Blizzard mentioned redoing how Rage worked to help out Warriors. Also, they made the DK Blood talent tree a tanking tree.

Actually, they likely moved quite a few talents around in the trees, since you now MUST spend 31 points (out of the reduced 41 talent points) in a single tree of your choice before the other two trees unlock.