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Arise, thread. WoW Classic is coming out soon. Where are ya'll droppin'? Right now most of my crew is split between Herod (PvP) and Mankrik (PvE). We'll probably spin up a Disciples guild on

yeah, there's been a dwarf pally on our server named naturo for well over a year. Never pvp'ed either so no chance of killing him. :P

In other news, battleground are stable now, and frickin packed. It seems really easy to play casually and get plenty of stuff too. I've played a few games a night so far and am about 1/3 of the way towards the general shoulders which look way cooler than the lame arcanist ones.

Judging by the 200+ games in my battlegroup going on, I can only assume others feel the same way. :)

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I played for about a year and a half, once you get epiced out and hit Grand Marshial it can get pretty boring but I didnt decide to quit until my friends did. That took the social aspect out and without that I'd probably have never played in the first place. I quit about 2 months before burning crusade came out so I have no idea what its like now but my best character was a lv60 NE Druid on Moonrunner.

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So... no dagger rogues?

What are the must have skills for dagger rogues?

I spent my time trying to make a good sword build so my knowledge of dagger rogues is limited. Since I dont have my dagger yet, i would love to study a bit more in depth everything relevant to dagger oriented fighting. I'm guessing the must have skills are improved backstab, improved ambush, and improved gouge. I don't think I need ghostly strike or hemorage. Beyond that, I'm stumped.

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do you plan on PVPing or just raiding? PVP is all about sublety, and PVE is almost completely Combat with a little sub.

I'm all about hybrid builds. I was thinking of actually going in with a little assassination, some combat, and mostly sub. I'm still not sure though. I have been having great levels of fun in AV with my sword build, and I starting to think I may regret changing the combat style of my rogue. Especially since the only reason I concidered this in ther first place was the gloves I got in a PuG MC that give me +5 dagger.

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I have a mutilate build, 41-0-10 and it is AMAZING. And it only scales better and better as you get gear.

But you need two daggers.

Right now, I "only" have a brutality blade sword mainhand as an epic weapon. If all goes well, by next monday I'll have one grandmaster's dagger. As for off hand daggers, the selection is smaller. Right now I use Crystal Tipped Stileto for the 24Ap bonus. Its a 55 blue, and its pretty decent. Other daggers available include the Keris of Zul Serak and I can always go and get another barman shanker. I could also, conceivably, get a lobotomizer or an electrified dagger, or simply hold on until I get a second GM's dagger. However, I want to switch my combat style as soon as I get the GM's weapon.

Also, how badly does mutilate hit compared to backstab? The math tells me they should hit the same on a non-poisoned target.

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Man, you'll love the damage even without uber weaps, it just gets better. I wanted to spec mutilate so badly that I went out and mainhanded a Scarlet Kris, and a freaking lvl 25 green dagger because there were no other ones on AH I could afford. My main hand mutilates were hitting for over 1k on poisoned mobs when it crit.

Now I'm using a glacial blade MH and scarlet kris OH, and on poisoned mobs I hit for close to 1500 if both attacks crit.

Btw, If your mutilate isn't hitting a poisoned target, you're not playing mutilate right. Even if its something like dual crip. poisons, they count as poisoned and your mutilate damage jumps by 50%. If they aren't poisoned, then a crit with both hands may even out to a crit backstab.

I'm loving it and just waiting to get some better gear. I hear rogues with dual HW weapons are critting with mutilate for 2.4k.

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So basically, the fight is like a traditional dagger rogue.

Open with ambush, wait a while, then gouge, then mutilate... I'm guessing your finishing move is always kidney shot...

How does mutilate fare in PVE? I mean, most mobs in MC are immune to poisons and well, I remember may mobs resisting poisons.

And you manage that without using improved gouge? That extra 1.5 second would help the energy regen and the timing...

Could you post your build, I'm curious...

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I open with CS on most players that are not clothies. The 4 second cheap shot ensures a poison like 87% of time. Then the mutilate will hit for anywhere between 500-and 1600 damage (Large Spread), after the cheap shot and 1 mutilate, I go for a kidney shot which is by that time 4-5 pointer (Mutilate is 3 cps if one of the hands crits), that 6 seconds I go for 1-2 more mutilates followed by an evis and chasing an opponent around as necessary.

Most non healing classes are dead if I choose to CB the evis.

Mutilate is good in PVE, but not as good in MC. MC mobs are too poison immun. Thats solved by hunters using serpent sting though. In AQ, ZG, BWL and all that jazz, almost everything can be poisoned so mutilate shines.

And yeah, I manage without improved gouge. It was either imp. gouge, or MOD/Opportunity, both of which I cannot give up since I pvp so much.

Heres my build:

Rogue Talents

Minimum Required Level: 60

Required Talent Points: 51

Assassination Talents - 41 point(s)

# Improved Eviscerate - rank 3/3

# Remorseless Attacks - rank 2/2

# Malice - rank 5/5

# Ruthlessness - rank 1/3

# Murder - rank 2/2

# Relentless Strikes - rank 1/1

# Improved Expose Armor - rank 2/2

# Lethality - rank 5/5

# Fleet Footed - rank 2/2

# Cold Blood - rank 1/1

# Improved Kidney Shot - rank 3/3

# Quick Recovery - rank 2/2

# Seal Fate - rank 5/5

# Vigor - rank 1/1

# Find Weakness - rank 5/5

# Mutilate - rank 1/1

Subtlety Talents - 10 point(s)

# Master of Deception - rank 5/5

# Opportunity - rank 5/5

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Nothing in improved poisons? (Not that I remember if they did anything with that skill post rogue patch. I'm just saying that they were pretty essential to apoison build, which mutilate finally made viable) I rarelly use exposed armor as it is, and a mutilate build would benefit more from the tougher poisons and deadlier poisons...

I,ll play around in the calculator tonight, if you tell me it is possible to make the poisons work (and since serpent sting counts as a poison), I guess I'll do it more. I only use poisons in PvP, and its crippling/mind numbing, usually.

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Oh well... I should be around 9000 honor tonight.

You sure about that? Honor nerf and all...

Good thing I managed to get at least one item (wow level 48 boots) before it went back to being a grind fest. But I can see why they did it. My brother (tauren warrior) has already got 3 pieces of the Warlord set, and is damn near getting a High Warlord 2h sword. Pretty ridiculous for a week's worth of PvPing.

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I think I am about where you are honorwise as well.

Honestly I hardly ever play my rogue, so I know very little about builds, but a backstab build is way more pve centric, i'd go the mutilate build.

I may convert sooner than expected. I can afford a lobotomizer. Its a step down from brutality blade in so far as DPS, but it is compensated by the proc. I just need to get some gold (its 15 for a respec and I have 16 gold.) I need money for my poison crafting. Although I could sell some of the battleground obtained runecloth...

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Suzumebachi, no one is making you play. If you hate it that much, walk away bro.

Also, I was at 6000 last night, I used to make about 2000 a night with 3 AVs and about 150 kills.

Last night I got 3 AVs, 2 WSG, and 1 AB. And 315 kills.

That should be a bit more honor even with the readjustment they made. (No, not everything is a nerf... what are you a hunter?)

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Suzumebachi, no one is making you play. If you hate it that much, walk away bro.

Also, I was at 6000 last night, I used to make about 2000 a night with 3 AVs and about 150 kills.

Last night I got 3 AVs, 2 WSG, and 1 AB. And 315 kills.

That should be a bit more honor even with the readjustment they made. (No, not everything is a nerf... what are you a hunter?)

Who said I hated it? If you read my post you'd see the part where I understand why they did it. I'm almost glad, because it makes the warlord pieces a bit tougher to get for scrubs. I just wish I got a little more PvP done before it went into effect.

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