Film Scoring

[AngelCityOutlaw]

So, today I got to visit a movie set and met with the director. I was originally trying out to be an extra, but I wound up being hired to compose music for the movie.

I'm pretty stoked about it. It's a horror/action movie about vampires. Looking through pictures, seeing the set, costumes, actors, props, etc. It seems to take some influence from "Vampire: The Masquerade" since it has a sort of "Urban Vampire" feel to it.

I've never actually wrote music for a film before, just independent games. What are some special, but not obvious differences I need to keep in mind when writing for a movie?

[Garpocalypse]

Where the hell are you?

and

Do you need a roommate?

[Meteo Xavier]

I hate to be "that" guy and bluntly point things out in a more negative fashion than I really mean, but how did you get hired to compose music for a film if you're not even really sure about the dynamics of doing it?

Or a better question - if you're not sure about the differences between them, why did you agree to take the job to do it? Video action is a lot different than video game action - VGA is actually quite static and nothing really "moves" unless you move it, and because of that, the focus on what's going on is quite different and music can take a more dominating force in the medium, complete with strong melodies and borderline prog-rock structures in some.

In film and video, the action moves by itself and is dominated by the actors and scenarios, therefore music cannot take a dominating force unless a musical is going on. You have to compose BEHIND it and hold it up.

Not trying to be an asshole here, really, I'm not, but do you really know what you're getting into?

[Dissidia]

It's a good learning experience if there isn't too much at stake. Copy other similar movies or just go by feel. For a scary movie you should set the mood and be able to make scary noises at the right times.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Meteo's not just being a jerk here.

My dream is to be a VGM composer. However,

If I got an email from Ubisoft wanting me to do music for Assassin's Creed IV or something, I would say hell no.

I know still little to nothing about scoring for games. I have no experience with it outside of my own little game I wrote in Java and writing music for it. I would rather not take the job at all than soil it with my lackluster scoring abilities. I would rather study more and get into it knowing what I'm doing.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

I hate to be "that" guy and bluntly point things out in a more negative fashion than I really mean, but how did you get hired to compose music for a film if you're not even really sure about the dynamics of doing it?

Or a better question - if you're not sure about the differences between them, why did you agree to take the job to do it? Video action is a lot different than video game action - VGA is actually quite static and nothing really "moves" unless you move it, and because of that, the focus on what's going on is quite different and music can take a more dominating force in the medium, complete with strong melodies and borderline prog-rock structures in some.

In film and video, the action moves by itself and is dominated by the actors and scenarios, therefore music cannot take a dominating force unless a musical is going on. You have to compose BEHIND it and hold it up.

Not trying to be an asshole here, really, I'm not, but do you really know what you're getting into?

Again

What are some special, but not obvious differences I need to keep in mind when writing for a movie?

I shall elaborate further. I'm talking little details as those are most important. Obviously, every second of the music must fit behind every second of the scene. Everyone knows that.

What I'm asking for here, is people who have experience with doing cinematic type scoring to point out things they have learned about writing for film that are unique to that medium and they discovered on their own. Things to pay attention to that they feel are often missed even by other film composers.

I wouldn't have accepted if I didn't have the confidence to do it, but it is my first film project and knowledge is power so I want to hear the advice of as many people as possible.

[C7]

I did a short film a year or two ago and was more surprised at how very little goes a long way. I always knew that to be true, but doing it first-hand was more surprising. For a vg soundtrack, I would typically have a stronger pulse, more instrumentation, etc. and a lot of film settings just don't lend themselves to that. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of big moments and the music had better stand up to it, but stripping the music down to its bare essentials (and still maintaining the sound quality you desire) was often times what worked best.

Also, in most instances, I feel a small motif is far more useful and versatile than a full-on melody. There are times for melodies and themes--just not many of them.

[Moseph]

Make it absolutely clear to them that they need to give you a locked picture (i.e. the timings of the cuts are finalized) before you can do anything substantial, and once they've given you the locked picture, they must not change any timings. If they screw around with the timings and give you a new version after they've already had you working on something else, there's a good chance that you'll have to rewrite everything to make it fit to the new timings. You do not want this to happen.

If these people are experienced filmmakers they shouldn't need to have this pointed out to them, but since they're hiring extras to write their music for them, you can't assume anything about their level of experience. Definitely make sure they understand that once they've given you the locked picture to work with, they are not to change it.

[Gario]

If I got an email from Ubisoft wanting me to do music for Assassin's Creed IV or something, I would say hell no.

That is not what you do. You say "Yes, I'll do it.", then send all the information and payment schedules my direction.

[zircon]

Heh, yeah, one rule of the film/tv/game industry that I live by is "always say yes". Even if you don't know how to do something, say yes. You will figure it out. Learning how to do things is easy, getting gigs is hard. Also, that's why you have a network. Gario was only half-joking. If you get offered a nice gig and it's too much for you, find someone who can help.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I guess my response would be different because I really have no penalty for saying no. (still in high school, don't need to be making loads of money quite yet)

[theshaggyfreak]

I agree with Zircon 100%. The jobs that fall in your lap like this can be great to learn from.

[Chernabogue]

I agree with zircon too.

Make sure that the music fits the action/scene/atmosphere, and it should work.

[dannthr]

Heh, yeah, one rule of the film/tv/game industry that I live by is "always say yes". Even if you don't know how to do something, say yes. You will figure it out. Learning how to do things is easy, getting gigs is hard. Also, that's why you have a network. Gario was only half-joking. If you get offered a nice gig and it's too much for you, find someone who can help.

If you don't know how to do something and you say "yes," you better fucking deliver.

[zircon]

That's part 2 of the rule... always deliver

[dannthr]

I tell my students there are three things they need strength in to get work:

Technical Skill:

You have to know what you're getting into, even if you don't know everything, if you don't know anything you're probably going to blow it and even more likely is that if you've never shown that you can do something, they're not going to assume you can.

Apparent Talent:

Talent is the layman's way of explaining creative product. Really, this is a lot of hard work and practice refining your craft and creative muscle, but to everyone else it's this magical sprinkle dust you were born with--you just have to look really talented.

Network:

People don't advertise for this sort of work, at least very rarely, rather they just ask themselves "who do I know who can do this?" Chances are, they know someone, do they know you? Your job is to be known as much as it is to be good and moreover, you're job is to be known for being good.

If you do not have all of these three things, you probably won't get work.

Tough, dry cookies.

[dannthr]

I've never actually wrote music for a film before, just independent games. What are some special, but not obvious differences I need to keep in mind when writing for a movie?

Indie film directors are not like Indie Game Designers.

Indie film directors are so DIY oriented that they put their fingers in everything. They can be really trying and if you're getting paid, it's going to be hard for you to pick your battles.

Focus on serving the film and not the director, make sure he knows this about you, and don't be afraid to stand your ground. Understand that from his perspective, it's HIS film, so you will ultimately have to yield to him, but make all of your choices DEFENDABLE and EXPLAINABLE, so when you do feel like it's important to stand your ground, you have ground to stand on.

Mickey Mousing.

Mickey Mousing is something you don't have to deal with in games.

Pacing and flourish, hits without sacrificing theme or motiv--these are challenges specific to film. The most advanced game engine attempts to get somewhere close to this for film--in film it is perfected.

In games, you fire and forget music loops, in film, you know everything, you are omniscient, and mickey mousing can be very tiring if directors want it all the time.

I've always had more revisions working with film directors than game designers.

Have fun.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Indie film directors are not like Indie Game Designers.

Indie film directors are so DIY oriented that they put their fingers in everything. They can be really trying and if you're getting paid, it's going to be hard for you to pick your battles.

Focus on serving the film and not the director, make sure he knows this about you, and don't be afraid to stand your ground. Understand that from his perspective, it's HIS film, so you will ultimately have to yield to him, but make all of your choices DEFENDABLE and EXPLAINABLE, so when you do feel like it's important to stand your ground, you have ground to stand on.

Mickey Mousing.

Mickey Mousing is something you don't have to deal with in games.

Pacing and flourish, hits without sacrificing theme or motiv--these are challenges specific to film. The most advanced game engine attempts to get somewhere close to this for film--in film it is perfected.

In games, you fire and forget music loops, in film, you know everything, you are omniscient, and mickey mousing can be very tiring if directors want it all the time.

I've always had more revisions working with film directors than game designers.

Have fun.

I tell my students there are three things they need strength in to get work:

Technical Skill:

You have to know what you're getting into, even if you don't know everything, if you don't know anything you're probably going to blow it and even more likely is that if you've never shown that you can do something, they're not going to assume you can.

Apparent Talent:

Talent is the layman's way of explaining creative product. Really, this is a lot of hard work and practice refining your craft and creative muscle, but to everyone else it's this magical sprinkle dust you were born with--you just have to look really talented.

Network:

People don't advertise for this sort of work, at least very rarely, rather they just ask themselves "who do I know who can do this?" Chances are, they know someone, do they know you? Your job is to be known as much as it is to be good and moreover, you're job is to be known for being good.

If you do not have all of these three things, you probably won't get work.

Tough, dry cookies.

Great advice there, Dan! Appreciate the posts.

Also, the part in bold is so extremely true. That's how I got the opportunity, I worked with one of the actors and he knew the director since high school. The actor likes my music and showed it to the director, who liked it as well. Said actor suggested I try out as an extra and when I arrived, he pointed me out to the director as the "music guy I've told you about". Although he already has a more experienced composer doing the majority of the soundtrack, he felt confident in giving me the opportunity to writing music for some scenes in it. It really is about who you know.

Yeah, it's not a AAA Hollywood blockbuster, but it's a foot in the door and it's one more connection that I didn't have before. Who knows, maybe one day the director and actors will really hit it big....and perhaps that will lead to bigger and better jobs for me as well.

Baby steps.

[Nabeel Ansari]

If you don't know how to do something and you say "yes," you better fucking deliver.

For the first time I'm gonna have to side with Dan instead of Andy here.

[Garpocalypse]

I guess i'll weigh in on this one.

Never, ever ever ever, ever, evah! let fear of failure keep you from trying something. you'll never get anywhere. If the project leader thinks you are an ill fit for the job, you'll be out. No hard feelings, nothing personal, just business. think about what you will have learned in that time though.

With that in mind, it's a good time to learn effective communication in a group setting. No matter what is said or how it gets said to you, always try to make any criticism that's not going your way look like the result of faulty leadership. Talk often, talk the most, and people will be behind you no matter what you do artistically.

Some people would call it being an @$$ but most would call it survival these days. I mean, just look at this guy

Then look at this guy: http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012/7/11/3151381/in-defeat-and-amid-controversy-chael-sonnen-shows-championship

Good luck and let us know what movie it is!

Just for fun:

See what good communication skills can get you? Everything.

[zircon]

For the first time I'm gonna have to side with Dan instead of Andy here.

They're not mutually exclusive.

[WillRock]

Personally, I go with andy's "always say yes" attitude. If I didn't, I wouldn't have got half the experience I do now. If you say no, you don't get anywhere. Trust me guys, getting gigs like this is hard and you should not turn them down if they come your way. Besides, if the guys don't like your music, they won't use it. NEVER EVER SAY NO. Can't emphasis that point enough.

Say yes, rise to the challenge, and expand your experience first hand

In my experience, its actually very similar to game scoring. I will say however, that in my own experience, with games, you're scoring for a setting alone... with movies, you're writing with cues in mind during the scenes you're scoring and you have to keep that in mind during the process. Yes you do this with games to an extent but with movies its much much more precise. Also, when I did this, the director and music supervisor were much more picky with what I was doing, and took much much longer to reply to me due to very busy schedules, altho I'd assume the same of a more high end gaming company perhaps, like capcom, I haven't scored for a company like that. Remember guys, always say yes. Its the only way forward!

[ad.mixx]

I'm with Zircon and WillRock on this.

This applies to a lot of things in life IMO. Unless it's science with rockets, or requires some sort of major degree/beforehand knowledge, it doesn't hurt to at least try something. I'm a human being; I can learn anything and just as fast as anybody else could.

[Nabeel Ansari]

it doesn't hurt to at least try something.

If it's a personal project with some classmates doing their own thing, sure.

It's a different story if you're hired. You have a contract and actual pressure. I'm not saying Angel can't do it, but if you're someone who can't, you shouldn't say YES, imo.

[ad.mixx]

You have a contract and actual pressure.

Bring it on. That's just more of a reason to dedicate myself to something and actually do it.

edit: oh yeah I'd like to clarify on something:

at a certain point, this kind of stuff does fall under the whole science with rockets thing, but we're assuming angelcityoutlaw has experience with music and the tools necessary to acutally create the music.