Fit Club ahoy! Where men are bros and women are also bros!

[Garpocalypse]

I'm not a trained nutritionalist nor do I work in the health field... Yet.

So i'll just post a few things that anyone could have googled.

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/fiber-how-much-do-you-need

Moderate fiber intake is around 30 grams with the suggested amount being around 38 if you are a male. Log all of the fiber you have in a day and see how close you are. If you are under then there is a good chance that red meat will stay in your system where it will really start messing you up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_meat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/12/red-meat-death-heart-cancer

Balance is always key. I keep my protein sources varied and make sure it doesn't just come from animals. Plant proteins aren't complete but they don't have cholesterol. Cholesterol is necessary for muscle gain but over the long run a high cholesterol diet isn't sustainable. It's good to get used to a varied diet over the course of your life than to think you need to limit it.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/525283-red-meat-fiber/

Moderate fiber aids in pooping for some. I poop fine with and without it. High fiber intake actually causes diarrhea.

High fiber intake is just as bad as low fiber intake. In both cases you get plugged up. However if you are suggesting that 30 grams is high i'd have to call you on that. Within 1 cup of beans and 5 cups of fibrous vegetables you've already hit all you'll need for the day.

There is nothing wrong with eating grass-fed beef every single day. I will defend this with studies to my death, and I will be eternally exasperated by those who contradict me without little blue links to support their claims.

By the time of your death those studies will have provided contrasting answers several times over. Remember when eggs were good. then they were bad. then they were kind of ok but should be avoided. then it turned out that they had the good kind of cholesterol. Then they said that too much good cholesterol is also a problem... and so on until people just went back to doing what they felt was right. Eating red meat every single day for a short period is fine say when you are bulking up but over a long period of time you are just limiting yourself. Red meat in small amounts and from good sources is a nutritional powerhouse but too much of anything has it's downsides.

Suddenly changing so drastically isn't going to be so simple. Especially since you have been essentially advocating the atkins diet which requires pretty much no carbs at all in order to work.

There is a difference between no carbs and no processed carbs. A zero carb diet is crap and impossible to actually attain. You need to have carbs for energy and to keep your body from using protein for anything other than muscle repair. Strategic eating of carbohydrates throughout the day will help you achieve your goals without feeling like you are killing yourself. Which too many people think they have to do in order to see any results.

Oh and why no fish more than 2 times a week? Please don't tell me because of the mercury.

People have been harping about mercury for a long time but it's worth some consideration. Japan has a high fish diet and they have among the highest amount in cases of stomach cancer in the world. (They also rely heavily on processed foods which contributes to it)

Fish is great but since I can't get freshly caught fish through my supermarket I don't make it a point to eat it constantly. Plus it's expensive enough frozen.

[XPRTNovice]

Garp (and everyone) I liked your little bit about how studies swap every ten years. That's why MY guidelines are 1.) informed common sense and 2.) low-stress. I eat what I'm pretty sure is healthy because it makes sense. The biological evidence of the damage that grain does to cows is overwhelming (and overwhelmingly ignored). And you're all MUSICIANS. You should KNOW from the time you're six that ALL COWS EAT GRASS (I really hope someone gets that joke). Grains are really hard to make edible, so they're probably really hard to digest. Tomatoes are good for you. You probably shouldn't f*** with the genetic makeup of chickens to make them grow twice as fast, but they live in their own feces and can't lift their heads because their bodies are so broken.

That's the informed common sense part. The low-stress part is that I'm not going to get invited to a barbeque and bring my own meat and look like an asshole, or interrogate the host to figure out what he put in the meat or if he used GMO or blah blah blah. Chill out and enjoy a burger. And goddamnit, I'm never going to stop eating Cadbury cream eggs, because I like them and I understand what moderation is. Some people get a lot of enjoyment out of reading 10 articles about nutrition every day. I like to make music and write books, so I don't worry about it as much.

[Garpocalypse]

And goddamnit, I'm never going to stop eating Cadbury cream eggs, because I like them and I understand what moderation is.

lol, I just tried one of those again this year for the first time in 17 or 18 years. I made it through half of one and couldn't bear to finish it. It's sweet enough to kill and revive an elephant. I used to love them when I was a kid too. Getting older sucks.

Moderation is going to be different to everyone. To me, one cadbury egg every 17 years is moderation. The important thing is you don't use "moderation" as an excuse to keep cheating yourself. Have a pop tart in moderation and also have some green beans in moderation too.

[XPRTNovice]

To me, one cadbury egg every 17 years is moderation.

Moderation is the fact that they ONLY COME OUT ONCE A YEAR!

[Argle]

Anyone do parkour? Most sports hold the appeal of church for me, but parkour has me extremely interested. Maybe I've played Assassin's Creed too much. Only thing is I'm scared of making an absolute fool out of myself in public.

[XPRTNovice]

Anyone do parkour? Most sports hold the appeal of church for me, but parkour has me extremely interested. Maybe I've played Assassin's Creed too much. Only thing is I'm scared of making an absolute fool out of myself in public.

In other news, I'm 3 classes deep into parkour - anyone else in the DC area that wants to come do it with me? Classes can be pricey tho

Where are you at?

[Argle]

Where are you at?

I'm in chicago. Sorry.

[OceansAndrew]

pretty nice AMA from Arnold on general fitness:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1brg0z/im_back_ama_about_fitness/

I tend to agree with a lot of his answers, specifically the importance of chin ups!

[ectogemia]

Garp (and everyone) I liked your little bit about how studies swap every ten years. That's why MY guidelines are 1.) informed common sense and 2.) low-stress. I eat what I'm pretty sure is healthy because it makes sense. The biological evidence of the damage that grain does to cows is overwhelming (and overwhelmingly ignored). And you're all MUSICIANS. You should KNOW from the time you're six that ALL COWS EAT GRASS (I really hope someone gets that joke). Grains are really hard to make edible, so they're probably really hard to digest. Tomatoes are good for you. You probably shouldn't f*** with the genetic makeup of chickens to make them grow twice as fast, but they live in their own feces and can't lift their heads because their bodies are so broken.

That's the informed common sense part. The low-stress part is that I'm not going to get invited to a barbeque and bring my own meat and look like an asshole, or interrogate the host to figure out what he put in the meat or if he used GMO or blah blah blah. Chill out and enjoy a burger. And goddamnit, I'm never going to stop eating Cadbury cream eggs, because I like them and I understand what moderation is. Some people get a lot of enjoyment out of reading 10 articles about nutrition every day. I like to make music and write books, so I don't worry about it as much.

You and I agree, then. I speak in ideals in this thread, yes, but what's the point of living in modern society if you don't indulge in it once in a while? Grass-fed ice cream and a nice, quality, deep-dish pizza are my vices. Common sense (evolutionary approach) is the lens through which you should analyze all nutritional info. Humans *did not* evolve to eat grains. Birds and insects did. Cows did not, pigs did not, etc.

Gar, I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to read your links. I really don't mean to be a dick in not doing so and I'm not trying to poop on your efforts to make a counterargument, but they are not primary sources/studies, and some are from sites which I do not trust. I DO happen to work in the health care field, I'm going to be a doctor pretty damn soon, and I'm very current on the nutrition and biochemistry literature. I'm telling you, these layperson sites are ancient history and often outright wrong. One example? The Mayo Clinic's page on saturated fat has ZERO primary resources cited in it. FROM THE PREMIER CLINIC ON THE PLANET. Their page would have been an F in any undergrad lab class. And this is the sort of info that things like WebMD and especially the garbage site, Livestrong, proffer. I actually remember checking out one of Livestrong's sources for their claim that saturated fat makes you fat. The source itself said that saturated fat is a good dietary choice for fat-loss diets because it does not mobilize insulin. WTF, Livestrong...

Also, Gar, no... high fiber does NOT "plug you up." It causes diarrhea. That's biology 101, simple osmosis (facilitated diffusion, actually). Lots of polar molecules in your intestines = intestinal hydrophilia = watery stool. I do not care what WebMD or whatever other shill site has to say about that. They're quite often just plain wrong.

Edited April 11, 2013 by ectogemia

[Garpocalypse]

Gar, I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to read your links. I don't mean to be a dick in not doing so, but they are not primary sources, and some are from sites which I do not trust. I DO happen to work in the health care field, and I'm very current on the nutrition and biochemistry literature. These layperson sites are ancient history and often outright wrong.

No big, for the most part it's stuff people already know. That's great if you are currently working in the health field. I am going for a backup degree in Physical Therapy right now but whether I decide to take it to doctorate level or just work as a PTA is still up for decision. Right now i'm thinking i'll work wherever I can get the most free time.

You clearly have an approach to fitness that's different and more thought out than most but keep in mind that many fitness fanatics like Bruce Lee and Jack LaLane wouldn't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Nor would they care to get into such specifics. They found what works and they do it. If you check out OA's post from Arnold, he expresses everything in extremely simple terms. You really don't need more than that.

[ectogemia]

No big, for the most part it's stuff people already know. That's great if you are currently working in the health field. I am going for a backup degree in Physical Therapy right now but whether I decide to take it to doctorate level or just work as a PTA is still up for decision. Right now i'm thinking i'll work wherever I can get the most free time.

You clearly have an approach to fitness that's different and more thought out than most but keep in mind that many fitness fanatics like Bruce Lee and Jack LaLane wouldn't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Nor would they care to get into such specifics. They found what works and they do it. If you check out OA's post from Arnold, he expresses everything in extremely simple terms. You really don't need more than that.

I definitely optimize. You've got me figured out. But I've done it the "normal" way, and I thought I felt "good". Then I had an epiphany while thinking about cat food ("why would I ever want to feed my carnivore cat grain-based foodOHMYGOD WHY WOULD I WANT TO FEED MYSELF GRAIN?"), read many hundreds of studies, did it the with an evolutionary approach, and that's when I discovered what feeling "good" REALLY means.

You also can't forget that Bruce Lee and Jack LaLane were genetic mutants, as is Arnold. They would have had extraordinary physiques doing just about anything, but if they had really treated themselves optimally, they would have been truly out of this world.

[Garpocalypse]

bonus points if you do pushups like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZydTPxFdcU&feature=youtu.be

>____>

<____<

I just found this earlier in the thread.

Good Ol' Charlie James. When you get over her screen name you're not going to find a better source of fitness information.... and entertainment.

I was surprised she couldn't do those actually. I do them all the time. The really tough ones are these:

Try a few of these variations.

Edit:

You also can't forget that Bruce Lee and Jack LaLane were genetic mutants, as is Arnold. They would have had extraordinary physiques doing just about anything, but if they had really treated themselves optimally, they would have been truly out of this world.

Bruce and Jack were among the first to think about what they were doing and why they should or shouldn't have been doing it. It was more of an academic approach to fitness that put them over the top for their times but they were also workers. At some point you have to get out of your head, put down the book and start doing. Going deep into what is happening is great though, you stand to benefit alot of people with your life's work but on a personal level such detail is unnecessary to me. Especially when so much of it is bound to change once I figured out how to incorporate it.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Garpocalypse

[zircon]

Thanks for the feedback a few pages ago. A few things that I guess make things a bit more difficult for me personally:

1. Due to medication I'm on for a blood problem, I have to limit vitamin K intake. That means most green vegetables are off the table unless I can consume a lot of them consistently, but that increases the risk of a problem if I miss even a single day. IE. If I have a large salad AND broccoli in a single day, my blood gets messed up.

2. I'm supposed to be doing cardio specifically because I've had mild atrial fibrillation several times in the last few years and there are no other apparent problems with my cardiac system. My cardiologist recommended 30 mins at the gym doing cardio 3-4 days a week. I don't have time to do that AND weights, not to mention last time I did weight lifting I found it was kind of hard on my wrists (which I kinda need)

3. I've heard plenty of great things about paleo, and like I mentioned, I HAVE gone to eating more lean meats etc. instead of grains, and if I do eat grains it's only whole grain/brown rice. I eat virtually no processed stuff if I can avoid it. That being said, I've also always had stomach problems which are made way worse by eating too much meat. It just makes me feel sick as its harder to digest and process. So if many veggies are off the table and I can't eat that much meat, that doesn't leave that many options honestly.

Obviously the answer is just eat less and work out more, so I guess I'm just posting to vent more than anything else, but again it's demoralizing to put time into it and make lifestyle changes and not see a result. I feel like I'm expending willpower and time for nothing, which makes me much much less motivated to continue those changes. What's the point if I don't feel any better or weigh less?

[ectogemia]

Thanks for the feedback a few pages ago. A few things that I guess make things a bit more difficult for me personally:

1. Due to medication I'm on for a blood problem, I have to limit vitamin K intake. That means most green vegetables are off the table unless I can consume a lot of them consistently, but that increases the risk of a problem if I miss even a single day. IE. If I have a large salad AND broccoli in a single day, my blood gets messed up.

2. I'm supposed to be doing cardio specifically because I've had mild atrial fibrillation several times in the last few years and there are no other apparent problems with my cardiac system. My cardiologist recommended 30 mins at the gym doing cardio 3-4 days a week. I don't have time to do that AND weights, not to mention last time I did weight lifting I found it was kind of hard on my wrists (which I kinda need)

3. I've heard plenty of great things about paleo, and like I mentioned, I HAVE gone to eating more lean meats etc. instead of grains, and if I do eat grains it's only whole grain/brown rice. I eat virtually no processed stuff if I can avoid it. That being said, I've also always had stomach problems which are made way worse by eating too much meat. It just makes me feel sick as its harder to digest and process. So if many veggies are off the table and I can't eat that much meat, that doesn't leave that many options honestly.

Obviously the answer is just eat less and work out more, so I guess I'm just posting to vent more than anything else, but again it's demoralizing to put time into it and make lifestyle changes and not see a result. I feel like I'm expending willpower and time for nothing, which makes me much much less motivated to continue those changes. What's the point if I don't feel any better or weigh less?

I didn't know you had a heart issue. Why exactly does your doc have you on Coumadin/Warfarin (assuming that is the case considering the Vit K thing)? Unless you have atherosclerosis or some reason to believe you have occluded blood vessels, there's no indication for an anticoagulant.

Have you tried grass-fed meat? The chemical composition of grass-fed and grass-FINISHED (important detail, as opposed to grain-finished) is different from that of grain-fed beef, and I'm not just talking a lack of adulterants like added hormones, antibiotics, preservatives, etc. The fatty acid composition within grass-fed meats is fundamentally different (much richer in omega 3, somewhat lower in omega 6 -- a very good thing) than grain-fed/grain-finished. The saturated fats in grass-fed meat are mostly palmitic and stearic acid which are known NOT to affect blood cholesterol adversely. This is not the case in grain-fed meat. This difference in chemical makeup could possibly be a difference-maker with respect to you being able to eat some yummy red meat without issue.

If the grass-fed and grass-finished meat is still making you feel sick, you may need to be checked out for some sort of lipase or protease deficiency. Whole, unprocessed, optimally-raised foods shouldn't make *anyone* sick unless you have a genetic dysfunction.

With respect to cardio, check this out. You may find this a little encouraging. To put it bluntly, your doctor's exercise advice considering your heart condition is out of date:

"To summarize, HIIT [sprint intervals] appears safe and better tolerated by [cardiovascular pateints] than moderate-intensity continuous exercise (MICE) [jogging]."

"The present investigation suggests 2 wk of HIIT is sufficient to induce beneficial alterations in the resting inflammatory profile [which is highly desirable for cardiovascular patients] and [fat storage reduction] of an overweight and obese male cohort."

HIIT leads to a decrease in fat storage

These are cutting-edge studies from 2012ish, and since at least 2007ish, these sorts of studies have been coming out with consistent results. More than likely, your doc was trained well before that, so the methods he learned in med school are outdated by now. If you want, I can point you to a bazillion studies about how HIIT is more effective than jogging with respect to fat loss. Sounds like a win-win for you, and the total time input is *trumpets blaring* EIGHT MINUTES PER WEEK. No need to go to a gym, either. Just find a field or track and do some Tabata sprints. Amazing stuff.

If you want me to find the studies which corroborate the red meat stuff, give the word. I just don't feel like digging them up right now

I know it sucks to try so hard at something not terribly fun in most peoples' opinions, like working out, and see no results, but there are still approaches to diet and fitness which you've not yet explored. I have a good feeling your x-factor is still out there.

edit: When you said you have "stomach problems" do you mean, like, STOMACH problems? Or do you mean general GI issues? Because you may have an inflammatory bowel disease like Chrohn's or Celiac's or IBS or something in which case eating a diet which minimizes basal inflammatory activity (like the GAPS diet) would do your digestion and overall well-being a world of good.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ectogemia

[zircon]

I didn't know you had a heart issue. Why exactly does your doc have you on Coumadin/Warfarin (assuming that is the case considering the Vit K thing)? Unless you have atherosclerosis or some reason to believe you have occluded blood vessels, there's no indication for an anticoagulant.

I have an antithrombin deficiency. It's genetic and severe. When I was 23 I had an extremely serious blood clot (8 cm) in my superior mesenteric vein, and that was after taking heparin injections before a flight. So yeah, blood thinners for life, no option there.

Have you tried grass-fed meat?

I don't know, actually. I generally make it a point to buy whatever the most natural, unprocessed food is at the grocery store. I would have to keep my eye out for grass-fed specifically. But I generally eat very little red meat. Chicken & lean ground turkey is generally what I eat when it comes to meat.

With respect to cardio, check this out. You may find this a little encouraging. To put it bluntly, your doctor's exercise advice considering your heart condition is out of date:

Can you summarize this for me? Like exactly what am I supposed to be doing? The idea behind his recommendation was that I have unexplained atrial fibrillation, and all my tests came out completely fine, therefore the best thing to do would simply be to improve my overall heart health & efficiency.

edit: When you said you have "stomach problems" do you mean, like, STOMACH problems? Or do you mean general GI issues? Because you may have an inflammatory bowel disease like Chrohn's or Celiac's or IBS or something in which case eating a diet which minimizes basal inflammatory activity (like the GAPS diet) would do your digestion and overall well-being a world of good.

I've had stomach problems from various things my whole life. It's always been very sensitive. When I was a baby I had colic. When I was around 9-10 I had ongoing nausea which turned out to be h.pylori (treated). In high school I was diagnosed with IBS. There was like a 5-6 week period the summer before college where I was eating nothing but soup because I just had nausea, cramping and abdominal pain with anything heavier. It then went away on its own. Early in college I had appendicitis. Then the blood clot which was also in my abdomen causing stomach discomfort. I've had numerous CT scans & MRIs (for the blood clot stuff), allergy tests, blah blah, nothing conclusive. When I'm stressed out my stomach feels terrible independent of what I've eaten, so I think it's just something I can never really fix or change.

Not to go into graphic detail but none of this has been 'serious' in the sense that I've never had bad constipation or diarrhea, haven't vomited in 15+ years, no blood in the stool ever, etc. It's just an annoyance. I also have a very high sensitivity to fat. Like the last time I ate a sundae with actual ice cream (maybe 3 years ago) I felt terrible that night, like I was going to throw up. I have a prescription for donnatal to help with those bad episodes. I have significantly fewer episodes now that I've greatly cut down on my greasy fat intake (I used to have candy bars somewhat regularly for example & more fried foods). I mean I still cook with canola oil, Smart Balance, and peanut butter, but I'm very rarely eating anything with a lot of saturated fat and it seems to help.

Edited April 18, 2013 by zircon

[ectogemia]

I have an antithrombin deficiency. It's genetic and severe. When I was 23 I had an extremely serious blood clot (8 cm) in my superior mesenteric vein, and that was after taking heparin injections before a flight. So yeah, blood thinners for life, no option there.

I usually take a pretty strong natural and holistic approach to health care if you couldn't tell But with an antithrombin deficiency, yeah, I can't really conjure up any alternatives to something like an anticoagulant either. An 8cm blood clot ain't nothin' to fuck wit.

I don't know, actually. I generally make it a point to buy whatever the most natural, unprocessed food is at the grocery store. I would have to keep my eye out for grass-fed specifically. But I generally eat very little red meat. Chicken & lean ground turkey is generally what I eat when it comes to meat.

Grass-fed/grass-finished meat is pretty much only going to be found at a local, weekend farmers' market. Either the farmer will advertise it as such or you'll have to ask them if it's grass-fed/grass-finished.

One thing you may not know about the word "organic" with respect to meat is that it is pretty meaningless, so what you think is unadulterated and healthy meat could possibly be trash. That label on veggies is sorta meaningful... sorta... but if you're buying "organic" meat at a store, you're probably buying crap. Sorta like "cage-free" or "pastured" eggs is essentially meaningless. Go ahead and look up the minimum requirements for "organic" meat and eggs and milk on the USDA's website. It's pretty pathetic.

Can you summarize this for me? Like exactly what am I supposed to be doing? The idea behind his recommendation was that I have unexplained atrial fibrillation, and all my tests came out completely fine, therefore the best thing to do would simply be to improve my overall heart health & efficiency.

You should be doing 2 Tabata sprint sessions per week. A Tabata sprint sessions is as follows:

A rep is 20 seconds of all-out sprint followed by 10 seconds of dead-stop rest. Do 8 reps. That's a total of 4 minutes per session. It feels like a lifetime, but it is disgustingly effective. The studies are really insane. 8 minutes of this stuff per week has been shown to be more effective at just about everything than 200 minutes per week of jogging.

It'll be extremely hard the first few sessions, but it gets less ridiculous after you adjust to the intensity.

Again, although your cardiologist recommended light jogging sessions or whatever, that study I cited is a meta-analysis review. That means it looked at many dozens of other studies on HIIT vs. medium intensity jogging and found that the preponderance of evidence suggested HIIT was both safer for individuals with cardiovascular disease concerns and more effective for improving overall heart health & efficiency.

I've had stomach problems from various things my whole life. It's always been very sensitive. When I was a baby I had colic. When I was around 9-10 I had ongoing nausea which turned out to be h.pylori (treated). In high school I was diagnosed with IBS. There was like a 5-6 week period the summer before college where I was eating nothing but soup because I just had nausea, cramping and abdominal pain with anything heavier. It then went away on its own. Early in college I had appendicitis. Then the blood clot which was also in my abdomen causing stomach discomfort. I've had numerous CT scans & MRIs (for the blood clot stuff), allergy tests, blah blah, nothing conclusive. When I'm stressed out my stomach feels terrible independent of what I've eaten, so I think it's just something I can never really fix or change.

So you DO have a history of inflammatory bowel conditions... you should really consider the GAPS diet. The major purpose of it is to fix gut disorders related to inflammation and bacterial dysbiosis. There are some pretty amazing success stories out there on GAPS from people who have had issues similar to your own.

The issue is that the GAPS culture is really annoying and hippy-ish, so it's no fun to read about. If all the hokeyness turns you off, try doing a Whole30 instead, but do it with a focus on eating live probiotics every single day without missing a day.

Not to go into graphic detail but none of this has been 'serious' in the sense that I've never had bad constipation or diarrhea, haven't vomited in 15+ years, no blood in the stool ever, etc. It's just an annoyance. I also have a very high sensitivity to fat. Like the last time I ate a sundae with actual ice cream (maybe 3 years ago) I felt terrible that night, like I was going to throw up. I have a prescription for donnatal to help with those bad episodes. I have significantly fewer episodes now that I've greatly cut down on my greasy fat intake (I used to have candy bars somewhat regularly for example & more fried foods). I mean I still cook with canola oil, Smart Balance, and peanut butter, but I'm very rarely eating anything with a lot of saturated fat and it seems to help.

Canola oil, smart balance, and peanut butter are all utter garbage. They're very high in inflammatory omega-6 PUFAs which will only worsen gut inflammation. Grain-fed greasy meat is also high in omega-6. Grass-fed/finished meat is naturally like 95% lean or something. I don't know if you're a meat connoisseur at all, so you may not have a good "image" of leanness, but 95% is DAMN lean. There's not all that much fat in it at all in a relative sense.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ectogemia

[zircon]

Grass-fed/grass-finished meat is pretty much only going to be found at a local, weekend farmers' market. Either the farmer will advertise it as such or you'll have to ask them if it's grass-fed/grass-finished.

As far as I know, there aren't any farmers' markets around here. I live in a bedroom community-kinda town.

One thing you may not know about the word "organic" with respect to meat is that it is pretty meaningless, so what you think is unadulterated and healthy meat could possibly be trash. That label on veggies is sorta meaningful... sorta... but if you're buying "organic" meat at a store, you're probably buying crap. Sorta like "cage-free" or "pastured" eggs is essentially meaningless. Go ahead and look up the minimum requirements for "organic" meat and eggs and milk on the USDA's website. It's pretty pathetic.

That may be so, BUT... with any given food item, an organic version is practically guaranteed to have less crap. Comparing organic tortillas vs. non-organic for example, there are fewer additives and other junk in the organic, plus more fiber/protein. Same goes for whole wheat bread (nature's promise vs. wonderbread or whatever). So at worst there's no benefit some of the time, but most of the time it's reducing the amount of processing & additives and generally the nutrition facts are better on the organic side. I always check of course.

A rep is 20 seconds of all-out sprint followed by 10 seconds of dead-stop rest. Do 8 reps. That's a total of 4 minutes per session. It feels like a lifetime, but it is disgustingly effective. The studies are really insane. 8 minutes of this stuff per week has been shown to be more effective at just about everything than 200 minutes per week of jogging.

Wow, sounds really compelling. I will give that a shot starting tomorrow. Hard to believe 8 mins of exercise could really be that much better, but hey, those studies ain't lying.

So you DO have a history of inflammatory bowel conditions... you should really consider the GAPS diet. The major purpose of it is to fix gut disorders related to inflammation and bacterial dysbiosis. There are some pretty amazing success stories out there on GAPS from people who have had issues similar to your own.

I don't think I could live without carbs, sugar, etc. I really enjoy cooking and I really enjoy a good meal. It's often the high point of my day. I did the south beach diet for some time, and it was fairly effective, but that was when I could eat lots of salad & broccoli to fill up.. which I can't do anymore.

Canola oil, smart balance, and peanut butter are all utter garbage. They're very high in inflammatory omega-6 PUFAs which will only worsen gut inflammation. Grain-fed greasy meat is also high in omega-6. Grass-fed/finished meat is naturally like 95% lean or something. I don't know if you're a meat connoisseur at all, so you may not have a good "image" of leanness, but 95% is DAMN lean. There's not all that much fat in it at all in a relative sense.

I mostly buy chicken breasts which are ultra lean and 97% lean ground turkey.

[ectogemia]

As far as I know, there aren't any farmers' markets around here. I live in a bedroom community-kinda town.

Hey, it's worth a Google. They seem to be everywhere these days.

That may be so, BUT... with any given food item, an organic version is practically guaranteed to have less crap. Comparing organic tortillas vs. non-organic for example, there are fewer additives and other junk in the organic, plus more fiber/protein. Same goes for whole wheat bread (nature's promise vs. wonderbread or whatever). So at worst there's no benefit some of the time, but most of the time it's reducing the amount of processing & additives and generally the nutrition facts are better on the organic side. I always check of course.

Yeah, definitely. And there are some great organic brands out there... for produce. Not so much for meat. The only good one I can think of off-hand for meat is Applegate Farms. My main point was just that a lot of people assume too much about the word "organic". It's a low bar to clear, and there's a lot of room for more and more optimization and quality on the growers' ends beyond the threshold of "organic."

I don't think I could live without carbs, sugar, etc. I really enjoy cooking and I really enjoy a good meal. It's often the high point of my day. I did the south beach diet for some time, and it was fairly effective, but that was when I could eat lots of salad & broccoli to fill up.. which I can't do anymore.

I also enjoy cooking and starchy things like potatoes and yams. I eat them daily, but I also don't have gut issues anymore, and I'm exercising, so I prefer supplemental carbs. Life without them before I started lifting again was still a happy one Think you could at least give the Whole30 a shot for 30 days and see if the low-carb approach makes a difference? I know a certain Ben Briggs and his girlfriend who did a Whole30 and had really dramatic results.

I mostly buy chicken breasts which are ultra lean and 97% lean ground turkey.

But chicken also has a 25:1 omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. To minimize basal inflammation, you want a dietary omega 6 to omega 3 ratio of no more than 4:1. This is why I emphasize grass-fed red meat so much and not poultry. Fish is great, too. Legit eggs are fine. Pork and poultry both are on the high end of the omega 6 scale, but otherwise, I don't believe there's anything wrong with them, so I do eat both on occasion. But especially considering your condition, you may want to give this low poultry/high grass-fed red meat approach a shot.

I do know that there are places online which sell grass-fed and finished beef, but it's probably at a premium (~$6-8/lb for ground beef or chuck roast is a normal market price). If the price is excessive, there's gotta be a farmers' market within 20 minutes of where you live. You can even go to EatWild and find a grass-fed cattle farmer near you, call them, and set up a pickup order in bulk. That's actually a pretty common way us Paleo types source top-quality meat, especially if we live in Nowheresville.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ectogemia

[zircon]

Thanks for all the advice, man. Is there a succinct summary of what Whole30 is anywhere? ie not behind a paywall? I'm guessing the jist is basically "don't eat carbs or sugar", right? I did do that with the south beach diet phase 1, so I know it's doable, I'm just skeptical that I can find enough to eat without feeling heavy/sick/hungry or some combination.

I will definitely look around for a farmers' market. I just hate driving when I don't have to. There is a large grocery store across the street... literally, 100 feet away, so it's very hard to convince me to drive anywhere But if I get like 5-10 pounds in bulk, that's another story.

[ectogemia]

Thanks for all the advice, man. Is there a succinct summary of what Whole30 is anywhere? ie not behind a paywall? I'm guessing the jist is basically "don't eat carbs or sugar", right? I did do that with the south beach diet phase 1, so I know it's doable, I'm just skeptical that I can find enough to eat without feeling heavy/sick/hungry or some combination.

I will definitely look around for a farmers' market. I just hate driving when I don't have to. There is a large grocery store across the street... literally, 100 feet away, so it's very hard to convince me to drive anywhere But if I get like 5-10 pounds in bulk, that's another story.

No problem! If you couldn't tell, I love talking about this stuff, so anytime you have a question or complaint, feel free to drop me a PM.

I didn't even know Whole30 had a paywall. Lol, oh well. It's not a very tall wall. Again, I would do what they recommend, at least for 30 days, and then make reasonable adjustments and re-additions back into your diet as your body tolerates them. Also, I would add daily probiotics of some sort. Eating some fermented foods with live cultures would be fine. Homemade kimchi 4 lyfe <3

[Thin Crust]

Ok guys, update time.

To Ectogemia. I really must apologize to you and to Atkins in general. For the last 2 years I've been pretty much doing my own thing which was watching my fat intake and heavy running. As you all know, I've been complaining about it not working and I came here looking for answers. I pretty much ignored it. Then last week when I saw the wellness coordinator at my work and she essentially said the same thing, I decided to finally do the low carb/high protein diet. I'm able to eat the same thing everyday so I'll be fine with this selection. So here it is:

Breakfast is an Atkins protein shake. 1g carbs and 15g protein.

Lunch: Salad in the cafeteria. I put on onions, peppers, tomatoes, pepperoni, grilled chicken, and my own dressing: Wallmart whipped dressing/pickle relish/horseradish sauce.

Dinner: I bake 2 pieces of tilapia and either more salad or some rotisserie chicken.

I tried the pre-packed egg whites to make myself healthy omelet, but that had 1g carbs per serving, and 10 servings per container. I ate it in 2 servings. That's 5g carbs each time.

End result, I have just lost 9 pounds in 6 days. I've never heard of something working that fast, especially when it comes to my history in weight loss.

So thank you so much. I'm finally losing weight and it's all thanks to you. I'm actually now in a race with my brother who is only 2 pounds heavier than me at the moment. He's been sick for the last 6 months so he's gained quite a bit. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

[Theory of N]

Anyone do parkour? Most sports hold the appeal of church for me, but parkour has me extremely interested. Maybe I've played Assassin's Creed too much. Only thing is I'm scared of making an absolute fool out of myself in public.

Yes. I love parkour. I stopped a few years ago because school got a bit too hectic but I REALLY want to get back into it. I kind of need to get into shape first though...

[ectogemia]

Ok guys, update time.

To Ectogemia. I really must apologize to you and to Atkins in general. For the last 2 years I've been pretty much doing my own thing which was watching my fat intake and heavy running. As you all know, I've been complaining about it not working and I came here looking for answers. I pretty much ignored it. Then last week when I saw the wellness coordinator at my work and she essentially said the same thing, I decided to finally do the low carb/high protein diet. I'm able to eat the same thing everyday so I'll be fine with this selection. So here it is:

Breakfast is an Atkins protein shake. 1g carbs and 15g protein.

Lunch: Salad in the cafeteria. I put on onions, peppers, tomatoes, pepperoni, grilled chicken, and my own dressing: Wallmart whipped dressing/pickle relish/horseradish sauce.

Dinner: I bake 2 pieces of tilapia and either more salad or some rotisserie chicken.

I tried the pre-packed egg whites to make myself healthy omelet, but that had 1g carbs per serving, and 10 servings per container. I ate it in 2 servings. That's 5g carbs each time.

End result, I have just lost 9 pounds in 6 days. I've never heard of something working that fast, especially when it comes to my history in weight loss.

So thank you so much. I'm finally losing weight and it's all thanks to you. I'm actually now in a race with my brother who is only 2 pounds heavier than me at the moment. He's been sick for the last 6 months so he's gained quite a bit. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

That definitely brought a smile to my face, man That's so awesome that you've gotten such quick results! Keep it up. You'll be a skinny shit in no time

I've got some issues with the quality of the foods you're eating, but one step at a time We'll tackle that issue if you're interested in what I have to say about it. But for now, keep up the good work!

[zircon]

Trader Joe's happened to have 100% grass-fed beef. Not cheap but I picked up three pounds of ground beef (chili, meat loaf, burgers) and a pound of angus steak. We'll see what happens.

[ectogemia]

Trader Joe's happened to have 100% grass-fed beef. Not cheap but I picked up three pounds of ground beef (chili, meat loaf, burgers) and a pound of angus steak. We'll see what happens.

Aww yeahhhhh. How much was it?

Also, kinda take a mental note of how much fat renders out of the beef as you cook it and try to compare it to what beef you've eaten in the past looks like while cooking. Like I said, grass-fed and finished beef is VERY lean. I bought some "100% grass-fed" ground beef from Whole Foods once, and it rendered out as much fat as 80/20 beef. No way in hell was it grass-finished. These big stores stretch the truth from time to time, or at the very least, their source farms aren't very honest. But then again, I got "100% grass-fed beef" from Whole Foods a year prior to this particular instance, and I'm pretty sure it was legit based on the fat that melted off of it. That being said, it did come from a different farm than the other beef, so it's probably an issue with dishonest sources rather than Whole Foods.

So yeah, if this beef doesn't work out, as a last ditch effort, try a farmers' market where you can talk directly to the farmer who raised the cows or a trusted online source for the bif. That way, you *know* what you're getting.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ectogemia