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The Orichalcon

Doom II: Delta-Q-Delta - History

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I've decided that in spite of Ashley's request for removal, I'm keeping the tracks in the project.

Future rule for reference: Once you commit to the project, your track stays on the project. You fuck things up for everyone if you remove your tracks over stupid reasons, so make sure you actually want to stick by the project before committing to it.

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No Lee, you wont be. I wasn't making a request.

I may have agreed to remix for the project, but you deliberately withheld information from me.

TO brought up Map18 in May..

If thats true, and you were arguing "black and blue" for my map 18 remix, how come i wasnt made aware of any of it BEFORE I started work on map 9? I dont like being played.

Besides..

..You fuck things up for everyone..
I might try one of the tracks.

You've already had a request, you just haven't bothered to respond yet.

So just to make it perfectly clear; you do NOT have my permission to use my content in your project.

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Hmmph.

Well, this is unfortunate. Guys, ultimately this is about releasing free arrangements of video game music. That seems to have somehow morphed/escalated into a huge argument. I'm going to be completely honest: I don't have the time to step in, listen to each side in detail, mediate, and attempt to achieve harmony in the universe and peace for our time. My work laptop died this morning, I have to go return a loaner car and pay for my car window being fixed for the third time in as many years, and I'm hungry, among other compelling reasons this particular evening.

From what I do understand and have been told, admittedly secondhand, I'll just offer the following:

  • It was natural for Ashley to be frustrated when finding out about the nature of his pieces, but rash to blame this on Lee, and worse still to remove the pieces from the project.
  • From a policy perspective, however, all OCR albums need to have artists involved willingly sign our content policy, specifically for that album, even if they've already agreed for past submissions. We can't host/post an album that includes pieces submitted against an artist's wishes, without the content policy being agreed to specifically for that album.

So, both of you potentially have something to think about, given those two points.

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I agree with djp that TO can't just insist these tracks be included. Redlight needs to agree to be included, especially with possible plans to make promo copies of this album as well, which IMO adds another dimension to things.

I may have agreed to remix for the project, but you deliberately withheld information from me.

No, that's an implication you made.

The nature of the Doom II sources had no bearing on whether those tracks would be allowed on the project itself, just the OCR main page. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that we on staff haven't decided what to do with the overall Doom situation. I have my opinion but that's only based on one aspect of the situation. You have concluded that we have some sort of finalized stance, which we're far from having. Where TO was 100% wrong was in stating that those various tracks were already deemed ineligible for OCR. Despite what he said, they weren't. It wasn't decided then, it hasn't been decided now.

The Doom II soundtrack having some mainstream-derived sources is common knowledge among many fans of the game, which is why I don't believe TO felt the need to say so beforehand. That also explains why, by extension, he wouldn't believe that someone would be mad about that fact. But that's only an inference and I could be dead wrong, so TO has to explain his frame of mind there.

While it definitely would have been better for all involved for TO to have highlighted the issue earlier in the project thread, he did as soon as he realized the implications for his project and that he hadn't made light of the issue to everyone on board.

While I can understand that you wish you knew of a potential controversy re: eligibility for the main page, saying TO intentionally deceived you is 1) assuming bad faith and 2) reaching.

If TO knew anyone would have been upset regarding the source tunes mixed and could have instead directed them to other source tunes, he would have. And if he really wanted to deceive anyone, he easily could have:

1) Just waited for the project to be completed AND released, essentially locking in the tracks, and only then make light of the issue

2) Waited for you to submit the track, and only then make light of the issue

3) Not make light of the issue at all

Again, let's not assume bad faith. This "deception" conclusion is definitely not correct. You guys need to shake hands or hug or something. No matter what, there's nothing so deep going on here that we can't be friendly and mature.

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I was in constant contact with Lee via MSN during the time this discussion was taking place. If there was such a controversy over my work in May, why was I not told? I finished work on the second remix in early September. Why wasnt it brought to my attention at any time during that period? By accident? Or again, was I supposed to have known all this from a message that was posted over a year before i was asked to join the project? And now he wants to take command over what happens with my work? I dont think so.

How is any of this common knowledge? Its an obscure and equivocal piece of information that emerged from a Doom forum and was never previously an issue for ocremix. Prince is credited as composer for Doom 2, for which I'm sure he still receives royalties. His compositions were perfectly acceptable for a multi million dollar gaming franchise and arguably one of the most important titles in electronic entertainment history, but an homage is a wildly different story. Though I guess I probably should have known that too.

And why is my withdrawing my remixes such a big deal? You've got a community full of remixers who are already requesting to take on the tracks, what difference does it make? I'm sick of arguing about it. Find another remixer and move on.

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Find another remixer and move on.

Well since you're the one leaving, you find another remixer to take your place if it's so easy. Your tracks stay on the project until I hear something equally good or better to replace them.

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..let's not assume bad faith

of course not..

..Your tracks stay on the project until I hear something equally good or better to replace them.

It just keeps getting better and better.

Delta Q Delta is your project TO, as you're so happy to point out. The onus is on you to find another remixer to help complete your project. I'm not surprised you find looking for a replacement difficult talking like that.

I wont be blackmailed into organising your project.

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Just popped in to mention that I probably won't have time to make a remix or even a WIP. So don't drag me in to this O.o

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Its a shame that this project is now being dragged down into personal squabbles. I can understand where redlight is coming from and I can also understand where TO is coming from in wanting the remixes back in the project. I'm sure they are excellent remixes as redlight's other remixes are great.

Personal feuds aside I think redlight should still release the tracks with the project. I could care less what the judges think about a particular remix and if they want to argue over petty trivialities, then let em. Their decisions in no way denigrate a particular remix as that remix is the creative vision of an artist, and might I say art is quite subjective. That said, I'm sure there would be many other people who would enjoy and appreciate the remixes regardless of the source. On behalf of those people and myself, I'm asking that redlight please reconsider putting his mixes back in the project otherwise all parties lose.

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Its a shame that this project is now being dragged down into personal squabbles. I can understand where redlight is coming from and I can also understand where TO is coming from in wanting the remixes back in the project. I'm sure they are excellent remixes as redlight's other remixes are great.

Personal feuds aside I think redlight should still release the tracks with the project. I could care less what the judges think about a particular remix and if they want to argue over petty trivialities, then let em. Their decisions in no way denigrate a particular remix as that remix is the creative vision of an artist, and might I say art is quite subjective. That said, I'm sure there would be many other people who would enjoy and appreciate the remixes regardless of the source. On behalf of those people and myself, I'm asking that redlight please reconsider putting his mixes back in the project otherwise all parties lose.

I agree, I think one track from DSOP was rejected to be posted on OCremix, but nonetheless I enjoyed the track in question. Besides, this is free music, although quality is a nice thing to have, I think the "Remix: THASAUCE" approach to this would be good considering the anticipation of this album ("THESAUCE" approach meaning choosing a remix based on how enjoyable it is to listen to rather than the type of content)

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Since it's too difficult to find artists to fill the remaining tracks and actually complete them, I've decided that given how good the mixes are that we already have, the project's now considered completed and will be released in its current state.

So I've closed the project as finished. Once we've organised a website and mastered/organised the tracklist, we'll decide on a releasedate. All eligible tracks on the album will be submitted to OCR to either be direct-posted, or judged on the panel. There's no guarantee they'll all pass. I'll send emails to the mixers asking them to write up comments on their mixes as well as details for the site.

I'd like to give a big cheers to the mixers who have patiently waited so long for the release. We're almost there! I'll email everyone involved with a date once it's been organised.

Forgot to mention that artists who were working on tracks, you can still have yours added to the final tracklist, just hurry up and finish them, send them to me ASAP. Otherwise you'll be left out.

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Since it's too difficult to find artists to fill the remaining tracks and actually complete them, I've decided that given how good the mixes are that we already have, the project's now considered completed and will be released in its current state.

So I've closed the project as finished. Once we've organised a website and mastered/organised the tracklist, we'll decide on a releasedate. All eligible tracks on the album will be submitted to OCR to either be direct-posted, or judged on the panel. There's no guarantee they'll all pass. I'll send emails to the mixers asking them to write up comments on their mixes as well as details for the site.

I'd like to give a big cheers to the mixers who have patiently waited so long for the release. We're almost there! I'll email everyone involved with a date once it's been organised.

Forgot to mention that artists who were working on tracks, you can still have yours added to the final tracklist, just hurry up and finish them, send them to me ASAP. Otherwise you'll be left out.

TO.. Thanks a lot for giving me the oportuniy of participating on this awesome project!.. :-D

I just can't wait to download the entire album

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Wait, this is being considered complete? Craaaap. Big Giant Circles and I were collaborating on a track. How much time do I even have to finish the track now?

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Sounds good to me. When I was helping organize the original Doom project I didn't see the need for having every track covered, so long as it was a solid album that channeled the inspiration of the game. That's what I feel this project will be.

cheers.

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Wait, this is being considered complete? Craaaap. Big Giant Circles and I were collaborating on a track. How much time do I even have to finish the track now?

The website design can't create itself in a day. At the risk of stepping on TO's toes, I'd say go for it, and if it's finished soon enough and has the right atmosphere, TO would probably take it on board.

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The website design can't create itself in a day. At the risk of stepping on TO's toes, I'd say go for it, and if it's finished soon enough and has the right atmosphere, TO would probably take it on board.

Correct. As I said in the last line of my post, people who were working on tracks can still have them added to the project so long as they get a move on and get it to me ASAP.

I won't be taking new artists on-board unless they submit me a solid final piece that I can just add to the project.

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Christ, this exploded everywhere. I'm sorry I haven't had the time to mess with my remix, life has been hectic and I usually need a lot of time to gather ideas for music. Got kicked out of a relative's place for no particular reason, picked up more work, and had to find a new house pronto. As a result, I haven't even been thinking about it. I'll probably still go out of my way to finish the remix, whether or not it gets added to the final remix album.

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TO has pretty much single-handedly turned my opinion of Doom music around from being a hater to a fan, so I am pretty excited to hear what you have all cooked up for this. :-)

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Now if only TO would pop in and let us know what's going on!

I'm trying to get my collab track with BGC finished up, but he seems to be MIA right now as well. Hopefully this gets wrapped up soon so the whole thing can be released!

Also OA, you're an evil MN resident? Awesome times.

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I think they are just waiting for the right time to strike.

And i'm not an evil MN resident, i'm one of the good ones. The evil ones keep me locked up under the stairs though. ;_;

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Well they can't plan a time to strike until some tracks get finished. I may do some more with my part tonight. BGC where art thou?!

Also, where in MN might you reside OA?

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