Xbox 720* Dead on Arrival?

[Anorax]

either going to force these big conglomerate companies to make good games, or force them out of existence.

hint hint square enix

[EC2151]

In my dream world, Square Enix forces itself out of existence, but grants Squaresoft, Eidos, and Taito Corp. their freedom before it does.

[Brushfire]

EA Games buys out Square Enix. Then we can finally have Madden Fantasy Football. XIII-4

[The Derrit]

Just to play devil's advocate for a second... isn't this more or less how Steam works, and don't people more or less love Steam?

I know I do... perhaps I don't hold the same expectations for a PC-based service that I do for a console, but that line has been blurring more and more...

i would say no, given that while you indeed must buy your own copy of the game, you can download, install and play that game on any computer in the world. not to mention steam consistently has the best prices, and huge sales.

[Garpocalypse]

the only people that they would be affecting besides the gamers who play used games, are places like GameStop. And honestly, with the way GameStop treats its customers at times (not always, but I've heard more bad than good)

In my small ass town we have a small ass mall that somehow has two gamestops just a short walk from each other. It's been this way since Gamestop first came up from the ashes of Software ETC and a bunch of other game stores I could care less about. Well, i kinda miss Babbages i think it was called. and that other one....Electronics.... Boutique .....i think.

So anyway, one Gamestop has the best damn employees that i've known by name for the past 7 years and have always done a great job and have no problem talking about even the dumbest game related conversations i can come up with. While the other one has always sucked ass no matter who they have hired. EVER. Some freaking DUMB ASSES have been hired in that store too lemme tell ya! (one chick thought it would be a really funny joke to threaten me about stealing my credit card.)

If the used market died I guess it would kind of suck knowing that some decent people who worked at Gamestop for the past several years might be facing some hard times but if the VG industry can get away from that movie industry crap of a game only having a few weeks to make all the money its going to before the used market takes over then I think it would be a step in the right direction. Videogames aren't movies!! And shouldn't be mirroring Hollywood! damnit!

Another half drunk rant from a guy with the same name as a fish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gar

[Hyperion5182]

So far there have been quite a few claims that the new Microsoft Xbox that will likely be shown at this year's E3 will not play used games, and will require an internet connection at all times in order to enforce that. Now all of these claims have come from "multiple unnamed sources" meaning they are far from validated, but so far Microsoft has done nothing to dispel these 'rumors'.

I love my 360. Play it every day, usually. But this is a step so far in the wrong direction it's damn disconcerting, and so far the overwhelming public sentement seems to be leaning toward dismal opening sales for the system.

So here's my beef: what kind (if any) sense would it make for Microsoft to do this, if indeed they are planning on it? I'm just trying to understand why someone would make this decision and what the likelihood of them following through with it would be if people threaten to boycott (which usually never works, as gamers can be a fickle bunch). I would say only about 20 percent of my games were pre-owned, but a company dictating that I CANNOT play used games really gets my hackles up. I don't even want to think about the possibility of rising prices on games if this did go through.

tl;dr Would Microsoft dare to make the Xbox 720 unable to play used games? What would the gaming community's response be?

There is a possiblity of an entirely DIGITAL roster. This could mean a number of things. not the least of which is the potential cost drop in AAA class titles from 60 to something more in the 40 range. Of course i dont expect something that reasonable.

As for the entire digital roster that's another rumor. I've decided to sell my 360 tbh and i'm pure PC only at this point. Fuck the console wars.

[Doulifée]

EA Games buys out Square Enix. Then we can finally have Madden Fantasy Football. XIII-4

Maiden BLitzBall 2013 !

i enjoy buying new game when they are awesome title (elderscroll, Ace combat, GTa) but i mainly use 2nd hand game. Yeah we all know Steam use demat stuff all along but i don't see shop selling a pure console with no game to sell.

[zircon]

I don't really believe this rumor could be true. Game 'journalism' is notorious for spinning, misinterpreting, and outright making up (or publishing) fake stories. The only way this could feasibly work is if the console had to be online 100% of the time to use it, and Microsoft will *never* do that.

That being said, someone earlier in the thread that consoles were traditionally 'pop the disc in and play'. I think this couldn't be farther from the truth. Most games these days come loaded with updates, patches, and sometimes even system/firmware updates required to run them. Sometimes you have to INSTALL the game first. When you finally log in, you have DLC/patch checks. It's a mess. I would say we are further than EVER before from simply being able to put a new game in your console and play.

[liquid wind]

That being said, someone earlier in the thread that consoles were traditionally 'pop the disc in and play'. I think this couldn't be farther from the truth. Most games these days come loaded with updates, patches, and sometimes even system/firmware updates required to run them. Sometimes you have to INSTALL the game first. When you finally log in, you have DLC/patch checks. It's a mess. I would say we are further than EVER before from simply being able to put a new game in your console and play.

It's changed in the past generation but that's still a short period of time for those of us who've been gaming our entire lives. DJP did allude to the line between consoles and PCs being blurred as of late, I'm just not sure that this trend is a good thing for consoles.

[lazygecko]

If it's enough to affect the stock value of game retailers, then the rumors probably have some weight to them.

I won't shed any tears over the death of the brick & mortar market though. Moved on from that years ago. The whole "AAA" gaming trend is something I hold no interest in, and the last console I owned was a Gamecube which didn't recieve a lot of attention.

What I've come to realize I like the most is the whole open platform culture which has been largely defined by the PC since the early 90's. Anyone can make their own game and distribute it in whatever way they like. That's what makes games like Doom and Minecraft possible, and the unorthodox business models that helped those games become incredibly successful. That kind of innovation also benefits the industry as a whole (Minecraft on Xbox Live now has more players than Call of Duty) and I think both the game design and business aspects of the gaming industry would be really stagnant without an open platform.

Pretty sure Gabe Newell echoed those sentiments as well during his recent keynote and the motivations behind the Steambox. Microsoft isn't likely to change their iron fisted approach to the Xbox.

[Rambo]

Just to play devil's advocate for a second... isn't this more or less how Steam works, and don't people more or less love Steam?

I know I do... perhaps I don't hold the same expectations for a PC-based service that I do for a console, but that line has been blurring more and more...

The fact that you're not getting a physical copy of the game on steam usually reflects quite a bit on the price. Even if the price isn't significantly lower, they have frequent sales, bundle deals, preorder deals, multipack deals....

When you pay premium for a physical product, you typically expect to own what you've purchased. Physical asset and whatnot.

[Crowbar Man]

Also I'd like to throw in that Steam does have an Offline mode that supports a large amount of their library. Steam does not require an internet connection to stay active to continue playing ANY games that I am aware of. Steam is also not the only way to get games on the PC, where consoles have pretty much only one (approved) way to get content to them.

This is the same rumor that PS4/"Orbis" has too keep in mind, so its not just a 720/8/Infinity/"Durango" issue. I'd take these rumors with a grain of salt. I do not think this generation is ready for quite such a leap, but this is definitely the direction to expect consoles to go in the future unfortunately if big corporations get their way as usual

I do however think we will definitely see more DLC/Online Mode one time vouchers included in games that make used games less attractive for customers, to get people used to the notion that used games aren't worth it. GameStop just needs to stop their highway robbery with used game prices and set them at a respectable price and it will all work out.

[Ramaniscence]

The fact that you're not getting a physical copy of the game on steam usually reflects quite a bit on the price. Even if the price isn't significantly lower, they have frequent sales, bundle deals, preorder deals, multipack deals....

When you pay premium for a physical product, you typically expect to own what you've purchased. Physical asset and whatnot.

I could never trade in Starcraft after I was done with it... how is this any different for that? PC games have required CD keys for like... millennia. Besides the whole perpetual internet connection thing, which is crap.

[zircon]

The fact that you're not getting a physical copy of the game on steam usually reflects quite a bit on the price. Even if the price isn't significantly lower, they have frequent sales, bundle deals, preorder deals, multipack deals....

When you pay premium for a physical product, you typically expect to own what you've purchased. Physical asset and whatnot.

Most AAA Steam games debut at $60, just like they do in a brick and mortar store. And while Steam does have bundles and sales, it's also much cheaper to get physical games if you wait a little while too. Markdowns in stores like Gamestop, Best Buy, Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc., holiday sales, doorbusters, used game sales, trading sites like Goozex. You only pay a premium (regardless of whether it's PC or console) if you buy right when the game comes out.

[Brandon Strader]

I've heard the same rumor about the PS4, always on internet and no used games / no backward compatibility... It'll be interesting, to say the least, if that's the way consoles go in the future. I could see Nintendo being victorious again in the console arms race.

[Lyrai]

You'd be a damned fool to assume MS and Sony aren't feverishly riding their R&D teams to come up with some way to cut Gamestop out of the loop entirely. And at this point, Gamestop itself is almost as much to blame for this. Had they tried to play nice with the companies, instead of effectively dropping their pants and wiggling their dick at them going "NYA NYAH CAN"T DO SHIT HA HA" for several generations, companies probably wouldn't be going crazy trying to crush them.

As it is, greed begets greed, and no matter who wins, consumers lose.

[Brandon Strader]

I can see this hurting MSoft and Sony more than Gamestop though. Even if they can't sell the new generation of games used, they still have.... every other generation they can sell and trade. Heck, who's to say NES and SNES won't have another surge after the epic fail of next-gen?

[Garpocalypse]

...Heck, who's to say NES and SNES won't have another surge after the epic fail of next-gen?

You mean those games people are playing for free on their PC's? Well I guess I'd be the one to say they won't have another surge. But i'm not gonna. Because I still like some things to be tangible. Like my copy of Sonic 2.

As much as I love Steam it's wrecking my game budget. Instead of saving up and buying one game i really want at a time, I just wait for the game to age a few months then get that and several others on the next Steam sale. So instead of buying one for $60, I end up buying 6+ games for $80. That's how they getcha!

[Kanohi]

If these claims are true, I won't be picking this system up.

[KyleJCrb]

Eh. I just got a 360 a year ago, I've got a Wii, PS2, Dreamcast, and a decent gaming PC (not to mention the classic systems I own, but those are easily emulatable so I don't really bother dragging them out of the closet) and dozens of games that I haven't even touched yet for most of them. I don't really need to worry about the next generation for some time unless there's some absolutely amazing leap forward or some exclusives that I MUST have (though that's very rare even now.) I usually come in near the end of the lifespan of the current generation anyway, so whatever they end up doing, it won't affect my habits for some time.

[Ramaniscence]

Eh. I just got a 360 a year ago, I've got a Wii, PS2, Dreamcast, and a decent gaming PC (not to mention the classic systems I own, but those are easily emulatable so I don't really bother dragging them out of the closet) and dozens of games that I haven't even touched yet for most of them. I don't really need to worry about the next generation for some time unless there's some absolutely amazing leap forward or some exclusives that I MUST have (though that's very rare even now.) I usually come in near the end of the lifespan of the current generation anyway, so whatever they end up doing, it won't affect my habits for some time.

You know, I got an XBOX pretty recently, and I really like the idea of getting back into console games. Basically WoW has spoiled me and if I'm playing any 1 player game without any social interaction at all available to me, I feel really isolated. So I picked up Assassin's Creed Revelations on XBOX after playing 1 & 2 on PC. I put revelations into my XBOX, played it for about 15 minutes, and haven't tried again. I waited for a PC sale, bought it there, got an XBOX controller adapter for my PC, and I haven't looked back. With dmc, AC3, Sonic Generations and All-Stars Racing ALL being available on PC? Consoles are essentially dead to me.

I'd need a SUBSTANTIAL boost in performance and GPU to justify forking over money for a console. Regardless of anything else it has to offer, and frankly I'm tired of Sony and Nintendo doing a piss poor job in creating anything they really care about. The Wii U's usability and social integration are already far behind XBOX360. Sony has only JUST RECENTLY gotten their online store to a usable state. Meanwhile steam is easy to use, affordable, and now has a fullscreen gamepad compatible interface.

That is not to say that I don't believe consoles can make that substantial jump. Consoles have traditionally been a more cost effective way to get performance than PCs, but man...it's getting to the point to where you'd need a GPU that can put a 4k display at 60FPS to really impress people, and honestly it should.

Whatever they do for any future consoles I want:

-1028 bitdepth textures

-Full 1920*1080 (at least)

-ALL the anti-aliasing

-Self-shadows

-Global illumination

-Destructable physics

-Constant, stable, 60FPS

Edit:

In fact, it needs a Google Hangout/Skype group chat solution too. And it needs to work in-game. It's fucking 2013.

And that's a minimum. No excuses. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy Plants versus Zombies, or Super Meat Boy, or Rayman Legends, but damnit a console has got to do what my PC can't already do better...or something that my iPod can't already do for that matter.

[Brandon Strader]

Wii U was worth getting because it's baby games that won't be on other systems, like Mario and Nintendo Land. I don't know if getting a 720 for Gears of War 8 or a PS4 for Uncharted 9 will be worth it, they'll be great, but eh. I can get that brown action experience in other games.

[Ramaniscence]

Wii U was worth getting because it's baby games that won't be on other systems, like Mario and Nintendo Land. I don't know if getting a 720 for Gears of War 8 or a PS4 for Uncharted 9 will be worth it, they'll be great, but eh. I can get that brown action experience in other games.

They told me the same thing about the Gamecube, and the DS, and the Wii, and the 3DS, and yea the Gamecube and DS got there eventually, Wii hardly ever did. It was strong out the gate and then nose dived.

After being so disappointed with Super Mario 3D Land or whatever I'm just not hyped enough to spend $300 on Super Mario Bros 10 or Mario Kart 7 right now. (BTW that's just the main Mario games, that doesn't even count the handhelds or the New Super Mario Bros or the Paper Mario titles)

Super Meat Boy, Rayman Legends, Braid, heck even Sonic Generations are all good, non-exclusive platformers that are making Mario seem far less appealing to me these days. I will be earnestly surprised if Nintendo can top Sonic & All-Stars Racing.

[Lyrai]

While PC does seem to be the wave of the future, there's still annoying instances such as the You Don't Know Jack PC game. Tons of fun, but the PC version? No online play, no DLC. Want those? Console version.

[Brandon Strader]

I will be earnestly surprised if Nintendo can top Sonic & All-Stars Racing.

That's a scary thought but I dunno how accurate it is. I mean they've already announced exclusives that will be better than that, not to mention ZombiU which is just awesome.

Also on another topic, on PC vs. Console:

http://i.imgur.com/Jn8ERft.jpg

RAGE is 22gb on PC..... If next-gen consoles go download only, can you really see downloading like 30gb per game? How will that even be a financially viable option for them... to include a 1tb hard drive and still be competitive? Not to mention people would have to download that, with the state of internet in the US? There's still so many ISPs with data caps. There's still so many people who have dialup or DSL (300Kb/s even)

We used to get consoles as a kid and need some crazy RF adapter or something and our parents would have to run to the store on Christmas Day evening and we'd cry like little Bitch Babies, how much are the next generation of Bitch Babies going to cry when they have to download each game for 3 weeks?