Competition suggestion: COCR

[HoboKa]

Draft Ver 1.5

Meat and Potatoes OCR

AKA...

MnP-OCR

MISSION STATEMENT

The goal of MnP-OCR is to promote the conservative approach to remixing: this includes the mood and composition of source tunes. It is up to the remixer to create their own personalization, or to simply give it a sound upgrade. Moreover, the compo is a great opportunity to hone your remixing skills and give video game music the respect that is due. A modicum of originality is recommended, but not required.

MnP OCR Instructions

1. Slight alterations of the source are encouraged, but not required.

2. Covers and Sound Upgrades are permitted.

3. Stay relatively close to the source's mood and notation. Refer to the example tracks for reference.

4. Any genre is acceptable, so long as it doesn't affect point #3 too much.

5. Submissions must be at a maximum of 20mb (keeping in step with PRC's file size).

Example Tracks:

Remix: http://ocr.blueblue.fr/files/music/remixes/Final_Fantasy_7_Red_XIII_Redux_OC_ReMix.mp3 source:

Remix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGZDEfcz0vA source: http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/Anything_But_Tangerines.mid

Remix: http://www.mediafire.com/listen/bal5vl7asoqrrac/HoboKa_PRC233_EnigmaOfABrokenSoul2.mp3 Source

Remix: http://ocr.blueblue.fr/files/music/remixes/Final_Fantasy_7_Son_of_Chaos_OC_ReMix.mp3 Source:

Remix: http://ocr.blueblue.fr/files/music/remixes/Super_Mario_World_Monstrous_Turtles_OC_ReMix.mp3 Source:

Remix: http://ocr.blueblue.fr/files/music/remixes/Hitman_Codename_47_Contract_Cleaner_OC_ReMix.mp3 Source:

All competitors and voters must adhere to the rules stated within Darkesword's competition conduct: http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40864

Voting System

- For those of you who're familiar with PRC (People's Remix Compo) you'll know exactly how it works.

- Anyone, including the contestants and host may vote.

- Host's vote = 1 point, contestants and general public = 1 point, previous winner's vote = 2 points.

- winner picks the next round's track.

MISC/TIPS

- Midi Rips are a good starting point.

- Don't be afraid to collaborate

- In-game sound FX are permitted, so long as you aren't going overboard with 'em

- *Some* source tunes don't have drums or percussion for a reason. So keeping it that way may be the easiest way to retain much of the original feel. Ex) FF7 'Aerith's theme'

& Terranigma 'Sad'

This is not a requirement, but just a suggestion Edited October 1, 2013 by HoboKa

[Gario]

Well, you say conservative, but no covers, but it needs to be in the same genre...

I can't think of anything other than a few very specific songs that could qualify as this. Another issue that I could see is that this restricts people who simply can't write in a similar genre to the game in question will just be left out - that makes it tough to gather the proper participants in such a compo.

[HoboKa]

Well, you say conservative, but no covers, but it needs to be in the same genre...

I can't think of anything other than a few very specific songs that could qualify as this. Another issue that I could see is that this restricts people who simply can't write in a similar genre to the game in question will just be left out - that makes it tough to gather the proper participants in such a compo.

I think I've addressed all of the issues you've brought up here and thank you VERY much for taking the time to give me some feedback, Gario.

[Bundeslang]

Sounds like a coal idea which can lead to pretty good songs, but there are some issues. Like Gario mentioned, the concept might make it difficult for some mixers (especially starting mixers) to enter.

They are restricted to a 'feeling' of the song, and they should at the same time keep the ratio of source : original in mind, there is not much freedom in that. I wouldn't stick to a ratio directly. It might be a better idea to start with something between 60-90% source and later make a more specific ratio, depending on the outcome.

I suggest to just try it out. Select a suitable source and make sure all rules are clear, also for voters. The Competition Code of Conduct written by DarkeSword are important to keep in mind with that. Based on the entries and comments you get it is always possible to make some adaptations to improve the contest. Find a good moment to do the first round; WCRG will end in a week, other contests like RMWtS probably start running after that; try to find a good moment to start the contest (when people are not busy doing songs for other competitions).

[HoboKa]

Sounds like a coal idea which can lead to pretty good songs, but there are some issues. Like Gario mentioned, the concept might make it difficult for some mixers (especially starting mixers) to enter.

They are restricted to a 'feeling' of the song, and they should at the same time keep the ratio of source : original in mind, there is not much freedom in that. I wouldn't stick to a ratio directly. It might be a better idea to start with something between 60-90% source and later make a more specific ratio, depending on the outcome.

I suggest to just try it out. Select a suitable source and make sure all rules are clear, also for voters. The Competition Code of Conduct written by DarkeSword are important to keep in mind with that. Based on the entries and comments you get it is always possible to make some adaptations to improve the contest. Find a good moment to do the first round; WCRG will end in a week, other contests like RMWtS probably start running after that; try to find a good moment to start the contest (when people are not busy doing songs for other competitions).

Okay, looks like my work's cut out for me, got your feedback here and some from Dyne via PM. Now the tricky bit is getting Ramanescience's ear lol. As soon as I tidy up my concept a bit more lol. I'm thinking that a name change for the concept name is in order too, since the whole conservatism thing is technically outside of OCR's bounds. NVM Darkesword debunked this false assumption >_< my bad

Thx for the help Kevin aka Bunda

Edited September 25, 2013 by HoboKa

[HoboKa]

Updated. Bump =D

[timaeus222]

Flexibility is key in compos. I dunno about the "Be Conservative" guideline. I'd much rather it be "Don't stray too far from the source", as it's less rigid.

Reinterpretation is just fine and dandy, as it promotes creativity. If "some reinterpretation" is recommended, but not "reinterpretation" in general, it kinda says "do a half-remix, half-cover".

I think I get what you're thinking, but the wording makes it seem like a compo for remix pseudo-covers.

Also, "Monstrous Turtles!" is Cinematic Big Beat, as there are no DnB elements in there. Some examples of ReMixes that retain the atmosphere of the source very well:

, Source

,

, Source 2

,

(Try listening to the source(s) first)

Edited September 23, 2013 by timaeus222

[DarkeSword]

Revision 2:

REVISION 1:

It's come to my attention that my presentation was at best confusing and a bit uh...pretentious, so I'm attempting to fix those issues with this revision.

COCR = conservation overclocked remix.

I've realized that this name is quite misleading as it suggests that these tracks would be eligible for submittal to OCR - given that there would be less than 50% original material in this compo, that will not likely be the case. So a name change for the competition would likely be in order...if I can generate enough interest for it

Um, what? OCR doesn't require that you have 50% original material for remixes. Where are you getting this?

[Damashii!!]

arrrrr... can't find em. =(

I was going to say that this reminds me of two eerily similar comp ideas from a while ago, but I guess those threads were deleted and I dunno if they're archived somewhere.

I don't remember the exact words/description from each comp because I didn't participate in either, but from the top of my head:

1. The first one envisioned us, the remixer, being put into the pilot seat of the composer at the time the original source was created and the Comp guidelines was to make an 'original' song to replace the source, but using the same mindset that the composer had for said source. (ex., I take on the Super Metroid theme and replace it with a Buckethead Kaleidoscalp type original arrangement, since that is how I would interpret the feel of the Super Metroid theme from my perspective).

2. The other one was almost entirely word-for-word similar to what you stated with this comp idea (at least, according to my memory) in that it requested a similar conservative approach with ratio interpretation and shiz like that.

I'll pm you more in person, Hobo, if needed since you know how we roll , but I personally see nothing wrong with this comp idea. True, it will be hard for musicians like me who tend to gravitate towards the more 'liberal' side, but I think 'conservative' and 'liberal' are terms which are very nebulous in some cases. Each of those examples Timaeus listed are spot on demonstrations of arrangements which still have that essential feel of the song without deviating too much; I'd even add PirateCrab's recent Mythic Mist arrangement to that list because all though it is slightly more aggressive and rock-oriented I feel like it still has the core musical themes and feelings/vibes from the original (the mix between funk and playful creepy or whatever).

and as long as OCR's been around it's still a bit weird to me about how this 'issue' always comes up: https://www.facebook.com/notes/overclocked-remix/is-it-just-me-or-does-ocremix-sound-like-nothing-but-a-bunch-of-elitist-musician/10153100529660585

There are PLENTY of 'conservative' arrangements to go around, I just think that in more recent times (especially with projects) it has become natural for the community as a whole to veer towards more interpretation.

Even though musically this is very conservative (by my tastes at least) would this be this kosher with you?

By my book a conservative remix is one where an average joe who heard the original source would be able to easily pick it out in a remix and the 'feel' of the original is still obvious (a sad song from a sad part of a game is remixed with heavier electronic sounds but still sounds sad), whereas a distinctively liberal remix would be more like, in my opinion, The Katamari Forever and some stuff from the Sonic Generations soundtracks (a lot of the remixes are straightforward but some of them are fresh takes and re-interpretations of the originals).

_________

that's long enough, so I'll just pm you any other things that come to mind. =)

In a nutshell, I can get behind this, I just think that the whole 'conservative or liberal' terminology is mostly based on perspective. It's usually not genre switch ups or mood changes that make a song become liberal, in my opinion. It's more along the lines of changing chord progressions, inverting some of the melody, blah blah, etc..... fancy shiz like that.

just don't stress too hard about the ratio thing... when we start having to pull out the Larry stopwatch shiz starts getting mad complicated.

EDIT: tl;dr a peppy, bubbly j-pop remix of a super dark Assassin's Creed track would clearly not work with this comp, whereas just changing the relative key from 'minor' to 'major' or adjusting the tempo a little bit, etc. stuff like that should be fine, in my opinion.

[HoboKa]

Um, what? OCR doesn't require that you have 50% original material for remixes. Where are you getting this?

shiiit looks like I didn't read the guidelines as thoroughly as I had thought lol. Thanks for the clarification. I'll change the draft per request.

Flexibility is key in compos. I dunno about the "Be Conservative" guideline. I'd much rather it be "Don't stray too far from the source", as it's less rigid.

Reinterpretation is just fine and dandy, as it promotes creativity. If "some reinterpretation" is recommended, but not "reinterpretation" in general, it kinda says "do a half-remix, half-cover".

I think I get what you're thinking, but the wording makes it seem like a compo for remix pseudo-covers.

Also, "Monstrous Turtles!" is Cinematic Big Beat, as there are no DnB elements in there. Some examples of ReMixes that retain the atmosphere of the source very well:

, Source

,

, Source 2

,

(Try listening to the source(s) first)

Ok, more fixes abound. I may use those links in my draft too, once I give 'em a listen. Thanks for the helping hand timaeus.

[Damashii!!]

oh yeah, bruh, this just came to my mind because this song is often on my weekly jam-out playlist. Your argument/stance on 'drums usage' is valid and it makes sense, but the umbrella is a bit too large. I get that you mean potential remixers probably shouldn't take a track from the 'Heavy Rain' soundtrack, for example, and throw in some unbelievably massive Pendulum drums in there, but to say no 'drums' at all for a track that didn't already have them is far too broad.

but this should be gravy: http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02330/

honestly dawg, I see absolutely no problem with this comp taking off and doing well because a lot of people share the same sentiment as you: they prefer their remixes to just be ham and cheese... they don't want any of that fancy garnish BS like oregano or pickled banana peppers or horse radish sauce, just the plain sandwich. ;P

I just personally don't like the term 'conservative.' better names:

-Moderate OCR

-Friendly Neighborhood OCR

-Straightforward OCR

-Meat and Potatoes (but no fancy garnish BS) OCR

-etc.

[HoboKa]

EDIT: tl;dr a peppy, bubbly j-pop remix of a super dark Assassin's Creed track would clearly not work with this comp, whereas just changing the relative key from 'minor' to 'major' or adjusting the tempo a little bit, etc. stuff like that should be fine, in my opinion.

Don't worry, I read the other stuff and am still taking it into consideration, but this is the first thing that I CAN respond to right now lol. A minor to major key can actually create a pretty big difference, but a key change shouldn't be too much of an issue. I'll play it by ear the first few rounds and make adjustments...

Edited September 28, 2013 by HoboKa

[HoboKa]

oh yeah, bruh, this just came to my mind because this song is often on my weekly jam-out playlist. Your argument/stance on 'drums usage' is valid and it makes sense, but the umbrella is a bit too large. I get that you mean potential remixers probably shouldn't take a track from the 'Heavy Rain' soundtrack, for example, and throw in some unbelievably massive Pendulum drums in there, but to say no 'drums' at all for a track that didn't already have them is far too broad.

but this should be gravy: http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02330/

honestly dawg, I see absolutely no problem with this comp taking off and doing well because a lot of people share the same sentiment as you: they prefer their remixes to just be ham and cheese... they don't want any of that fancy garnish BS like oregano or pickled banana peppers or horse radish sauce, just the plain sandwich. ;P

Too many source tunes in there to be a good example per se, but I understand where you're getting at with the whole drum topic. I just don't want drums on tracks that don't use 'em for a good reason

[HoboKa]

Mega Update.

Bump

[timaeus222]

Sounds good so far. The only thing left I would personally question is the source usage general minimum. 70% seems reasonable to me, whereas 80% seems to be closer to restrictively conservative. My own ReMixes tend to land at around 75~90% source in the end, for perspective. Case-by-case bases might work out more nicely, though it's entirely up to you.

[Brandon Strader]

-Meat and Potatoes (but no fancy garnish BS) OCR

But the fancy garnish me is the best part

I think it would be more apt to just host a compo with some interesting theme, and not worry whether it would fit OCR's source usage standards or not. If it does, or if it doesn't, that's great. Just worry about the music. That's really the most important thing.

[HoboKa]

Sounds good so far. The only thing left I would personally question is the source usage general minimum. 70% seems reasonable to me, whereas 80% seems to be closer to restrictively conservative. My own ReMixes tend to land at around 75~90% source in the end, for perspective. Case-by-case bases might work out more nicely, though it's entirely up to you.

I had a clarification mistake in the first sentence of the mission statement, but it's fixed as well.

Yeah, I'd figure you or someone would mention the ratio thing again...but this is something that can be tweaked as it goes, kinda thing. Maybe I shoulda stated it that way in the post lol. My bad.

Thanks for the constant vigil and feedback timaeus222

But the fancy garnish me is the best part

I think it would be more apt to just host a compo with some interesting theme, and not worry whether it would fit OCR's source usage standards or not. If it does, or if it doesn't, that's great. Just worry about the music. That's really the most important thing.

Ehh, not really game for that brando. For now anyways. Thanks for the input though ^^

EDIT

btw that gmod sig is %$ing hilarious

Edited September 25, 2013 by HoboKa

[HoboKa]

double post. Bad habit - forum mod can delete this post

Edited September 25, 2013 by HoboKa

[HoboKa]

Bump, Lay-out update and a few tweaks in the language and rules. Draft is almost complete methinks...waiting for word from Rama/Thasauce

[Rozovian]

I think you're overcomplicating it (and the formatting is random).

If I'm reading you correctly, it's a competition where you make conservative remixes that elaborate on the source but retain the feel of the original. You're going into all kinds of details about sound effects, live instruments, ratios of source content, having drums and a lot of other stuff that's situational and/or superfluous. Try to strip down the amount of info people need for this.

[HoboKa]

I think you're overcomplicating it (and the formatting is random).

If I'm reading you correctly, it's a competition where you make conservative remixes that elaborate on the source but retain the feel of the original. You're going into all kinds of details about sound effects, live instruments, ratios of source content, having drums and a lot of other stuff that's situational and/or superfluous. Try to strip down the amount of info people need for this.

Done and done. Might need to clarify the rules of engagement, particularly on the voting side and who gets to pick what track, but I think it's mostly fixed per request.

[HoboKa]

Mod can lock this thread, since it's been moved to the competitions thread.