Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[cobaltstarfire]

While I would like the camera to FULLY rotate around the characters, I suppose that there's not really anything else I'd like to see concept-wise.

Maybe I'm just being closed minded, but how pray-tell would something like that work in a game like smash? Even with two characters it just doesn't seem to suit the way the game is played very well at all.

[CE]

But the differences between Melee and the original aren't that big. While they added another B move and more modes, they didn't change the original concept by making it more air based, easier or slower. Melee is, in a way, and expansion of the original. And, in the same way, I want Brawl to be an expansion of Melee. Add more gameplay modes, more characters, stages and items. Add online and more customizable options. But don't make it easier or simpler. Leave the core gameplay, like Melee did with the original, and build on it.

Ok... I suppose I concede then. While I would like the camera to FULLY rotate around the characters, I suppose that there's not really anything else I'd like to see concept-wise.

You mean when you pause right? But then they'd have to make two sets of backgrounds...

[genghisdani]

But the differences between Melee and the original aren't that big. While they added another B move and more modes, they didn't change the original concept by making it more air based, easier or slower. Melee is, in a way, and expansion of the original. And, in the same way, I want Brawl to be an expansion of Melee. Add more gameplay modes, more characters, stages and items. Add online and more customizable options. But don't make it easier or simpler. Leave the core gameplay, like Melee did with the original, and build on it.

Ok... I suppose I concede then. While I would like the camera to FULLY rotate around the characters, I suppose that there's not really anything else I'd like to see concept-wise.

You mean when you pause right? But then they'd have to make two sets of backgrounds...

Yeah... you have a point... I'd never thought of that before.

[CE]

Full customization is the one thing I'd really like to see here. I mean, make player one have 4 lives, but the first 2 be played with fox and when he loses them, turn to link, which is 1.5 times bigger then the other characters, but is also weaker and if they both get down to 1 life, change the level from brinstar to brinstar dephts. You know, be able to actually create your own game modes.

[DrumUltimA]

Screw Sonic on Brawl. Seriously, it'll give those annoying little sonic fanboys the chance to go "zomg no tailz?" or to buy SSBB in masses and spam the online with their pre-teen anger.

Seriously, I think Sonic doesn't fit here and besides, all his latest games have been lackluster...

And for those who'll go "But but CE, Snake doesnt fit in either :S:S:S" I'll just say that he does. He does because his sense of humor fits Nintendo perfectly. His games have just the right ammount of wackyness and serious buisness, and he's even more out of place then Sonic, which makes him extra funny.

Snake FTW. And Simon Belmont.

h8 u

I've been hoping that by some off chance sonic would be in one of these games.. BUT NOT SHADOW. If they did one of those stupid fucking "SONIC AND SHADOW TOGETHER AGAIN" things I'll fucking kill CE

[CE]

Screw Sonic on Brawl. Seriously, it'll give those annoying little sonic fanboys the chance to go "zomg no tailz?" or to buy SSBB in masses and spam the online with their pre-teen anger.

Seriously, I think Sonic doesn't fit here and besides, all his latest games have been lackluster...

And for those who'll go "But but CE, Snake doesnt fit in either :S:S:S" I'll just say that he does. He does because his sense of humor fits Nintendo perfectly. His games have just the right ammount of wackyness and serious buisness, and he's even more out of place then Sonic, which makes him extra funny.

Snake FTW. And Simon Belmont.

h8 u

I've been hoping that by some off chance sonic would be in one of these games.. BUT NOT SHADOW. If they did one of those stupid fucking "SONIC AND SHADOW TOGETHER AGAIN" things I'll fucking kill CE

You'll kill me if they put Shadow in it?

Shadow is the worst excuse for making a game more "dark" ever. He's all angsty. Urgh. The only way I'd want Sonic in the game were if there existed a 16-bit mode. Then he'd be cool. We don't want no 3D sonics.

[genghisdani]

Full customization is the one thing I'd really like to see here. I mean, make player one have 4 lives, but the first 2 be played with fox and when he loses them, turn to link, which is 1.5 times bigger then the other characters, but is also weaker and if they both get down to 1 life, change the level from brinstar to brinstar dephts. You know, be able to actually create your own game modes.

Now THAT'S awesome![/billEngvall]

Also, I (and a bunch of my friends) want to see more customizable characters. Some of my friends have suggested something akin to CAW mode from the WWE games, but that seems to go against what Nintendo wants for this game. I personally want to see something like in Soul Calibur II, where you can unlock more weapons and outfits (maybe even the custom outfit idea from SC3?), but their attacks remain essentially the same, save for power, smash strength, etc.

Lastly, I demand that their costumes be more than stupid recolors. Except for a few of the characters in SSBM (Peach: in one of her costumes, her hair is reddish-brown, and she wears Daisy's outfit; Ice Climbers: in costumes 3 & 4, Nana's in front; Pikachu, Pichu, & Jigglypuff: accessories... because they're naked without them), everyone's "costumes" were just recolorations of their original outfit.

[wormguy]

Screw Sonic on Brawl. Seriously, it'll give those annoying little sonic fanboys the chance to go "zomg no tailz?" or to buy SSBB in masses and spam the online with their pre-teen anger.

Seriously, I think Sonic doesn't fit here and besides, all his latest games have been lackluster...

And for those who'll go "But but CE, Snake doesnt fit in either :S:S:S" I'll just say that he does. He does because his sense of humor fits Nintendo perfectly. His games have just the right ammount of wackyness and serious buisness, and he's even more out of place then Sonic, which makes him extra funny.

Snake FTW. And Simon Belmont.

h8 u

I've been hoping that by some off chance sonic would be in one of these games.. BUT NOT SHADOW. If they did one of those stupid fucking "SONIC AND SHADOW TOGETHER AGAIN" things I'll fucking kill CE

You'll kill me if they put Shadow in it?

Shadow is the worst excuse for making a game more "dark" ever. He's all angsty. Urgh. The only way I'd want Sonic in the game were if there existed a 16-bit mode. Then he'd be cool. We don't want no 3D sonics.

Yeah, the last thing we need is angst in SSB. Ugh. I'm not a big Shadow fan.

[G_D]

Full customization is the one thing I'd really like to see here. I mean, make player one have 4 lives, but the first 2 be played with fox and when he loses them, turn to link, which is 1.5 times bigger then the other characters, but is also weaker and if they both get down to 1 life, change the level from brinstar to brinstar dephts. You know, be able to actually create your own game modes.

This is exactly why I know that I'm going to be disappointed with Brawl; there is no way they could add in everything that I want them to do. You've taken my customization idea to the extreme, but the basics are the same. No more modes; just let us change the starting damage, gravity, ground friction, speed, etc. manually. I want my Giant Invisible Metal Lightning Melee on double damage ratio with all bunny hoods and giant mushrooms! OK, well, I got carried away, but you get the picture.

They also need to allow you to change the percentage at which each individual item shows up. Ex: you have bombs and green shells on, and you want bombs to show up in only one out of every hundred items. They could even customize it down to how often individual Pokemon came out of the Pokeball.

And an underwater level please.

And fun rules, like Capture the Flag and such.

And I know there's more that I've thought of, but I can't remember it now.

[FlagshipAmadeus]

[DrumUltimA]

FOR THE FUCKING WIN

and yeah, Shadow pisses me off hardcore. "Sonic doesn't have enough 'attitude' so lets make SOMEONE WHO DOES AND GIVE HIM A GUN"

[Penfold]

LOL, yeah Shadow is fuckin' emo...with a gun.

Yeah, CE is right...the sense of humor Kojima has put into MGS really fits with it. Hell, even if MGS didn't have those funny moments (I especially enjoyed the first teaser for MGS 4) he'd still fit. Fire Emblem isn't funny/cartoony, yet Roy and Marth are in there. Anyway, forgive the pun, but it looks like it'll be a BLAST to play as Solid Snake in SSBB (OMG 2 FUNNY! ), though personally I'm looking most forward to playing as Pit.

[nohero]

Full customization is the one thing I'd really like to see here. I mean, make player one have 4 lives, but the first 2 be played with fox and when he loses them, turn to link, which is 1.5 times bigger then the other characters, but is also weaker and if they both get down to 1 life, change the level from brinstar to brinstar dephts. You know, be able to actually create your own game modes.

Now THAT'S awesome![/billEngvall]

Also, I (and a bunch of my friends) want to see more customizable characters. Some of my friends have suggested something akin to CAW mode from the WWE games, but that seems to go against what Nintendo wants for this game. I personally want to see something like in Soul Calibur II, where you can unlock more weapons and outfits (maybe even the custom outfit idea from SC3?), but their attacks remain essentially the same, save for power, smash strength, etc.

Lastly, I demand that their costumes be more than stupid recolors. Except for a few of the characters in SSBM (Peach: in one of her costumes, her hair is reddish-brown, and she wears Daisy's outfit; Ice Climbers: in costumes 3 & 4, Nana's in front; Pikachu, Pichu, & Jigglypuff: accessories... because they're naked without them), everyone's "costumes" were just recolorations of their original outfit.

Yeah, more costumes, especially for Wario. I want classic Wario, not the WarioWare version.

And I've said before, make Fox and Falco into ONE character, just alternate costumes.

By the way, what do you figure the chances of Pikachu turning into Raichu for his limit break are?

And while they're at it, Mario and Luigi should have alternate costumes that are Bob Hoskins and John Leguizamo....

[OutLander]

And I've said before, make Fox and Falco into ONE character, just alternate costumes.

There are a couple of flaws with this idea. While they have nearly identical movesets, Falco is actually stronger than Fox, while not being as fast as Fox. Not to mention the fact that Falco is his own entity with his own history.

Kinda like how you can't have Samus and Zero Suit Samus be alternate costumes, or all the Links be alternate costumes. While they're basically the same characters, they're not. All because they are so alike, yet so different.

You can do it with Peach and Daisy, because from what I've seen, they are nearly identical physically. Fox and Falco are not, and all the Links are not, and Samus and Zero Suit Samus are not.

[cobaltstarfire]

There are a couple of flaws with this idea. While they have nearly identical movesets, Falco is actually stronger than Fox, while not being as fast as Fox. Not to mention the fact that Falco is his own entity with his own history.

QFE. Even the different history and such aside, some "clone" characters have a totaly different playstyle because they handle completely differently, and their attacks act differently as well, or there's a different optimum point for max damage. I think the only "clone" in melee I don't like is Dr. Mario because there seems to be no difference huge enough to make the playstyle any different between mario and dr mario.

[The Author]

Different patterns for most attacks (like the pills versus fireballs) and different strenght... but yeah, dr.mario was pointless.

[OutLander]

I think that's the only difference between Mario and Dr. Mario. But, if you think about it, that's also what sets the two apart. While they are basically the same character, Dr. Mario deserves to be a character in his own right. So what if they play the same. The good doctor is a completely different character from your normal, every day, garden-variety Mario. It gives you a choice.

[MasterRaichu]

Dr. Mario is in reality WAAAAY different from Mario. The pills are probably one of the major differences, mostly because of their knockback on contact with your opponent. But there are others.

Dr. Mario is actually slightly slower (almost unnoticible, but does affect his gameplay). He's got a stronger side-smash attack than Mario, but it's got shorter range. His up-Smash attack actually has the ability to bounce an opponent off the floor if caught in the correct frame, which can set up for combos. Mario doesn't have that ability with his up-smash. Dr. Mario's aerial attacks are also way stronger, most notably his back-kick. However, his punch does not cause a meteor attack, but Mario's does. Lets' also not forget about his down-tilt, which scoops the opponent up and flings them backwards and downwards, which is great for getting people off the edge. Mario's down tilt serves more as a means to lift an opponent into the air slightly to set up for a combo.

As for special moves, Dr. Mario's cape actually gives less lift when used in the air. It's not good for recovering to the edge, but his cyclone (down+ is very good (for those that don't know, when using either Mario, you can start the cyclone, and consistently tap B to lift into the air... Doc does it better).

Those are all the differences i can think of. It's mostly suttle things, but they all add up to create a totally different player. Doc is far from useless, and most tournament players consider him to be on a higher tier than Mario himself. The entire purpose of clone characters was to give similar, but different gameplay experience to vary up the gameplay. That's pretty much why you couldn't combine Fox and Falco, I would get into all the little differences there but i dont' really have time.

[CE]

All of the clone characters with similar themes could be combined as that only affects tournament play, which is a small minority of buyers. Plus, the game will be overhauled in Brawl, forcing tournament players to relearn it anyway, so Dr.Mario and Mario could be combined, as could Picachu and Pichu, Link and Young Link, Marth and Roy, and, to a certain extent, Fox and Falco. Only Ganondorf and Cpt.Falcon, being from two different games, would have a hard time being combined.

Also, welcome MasterRaichu!

[Aninymouse]

All of the clone characters with similar themes could be combined as that only affects tournament play, which is a small minority of buyers. Plus, the game will be overhauled in Brawl, forcing tournament players to relearn it anyway, so Dr.Mario and Mario could be combined, as could Picachu and Pichu, Link and Young Link, Marth and Roy, and, to a certain extent, Fox and Falco. Only Ganondorf and Cpt.Falcon, being from two different games, would have a hard time being combined.

Also, welcome MasterRaichu!

Technically, Marth & Roy are from different games, too. Games with a similar name? Yes - but still separate.

Besides, there are so many other fighters out there that already use the "change outfit = change effect" thing. It's so... played out. Costumes ought just to be costumes. You have to ask yourself, what are we really trying to do by combining like characters? Freeing up space on the character selsect screen? DUDE. Have you ever played Marvel VS Capcom 2? lol Who cares? As any EXPERIENCED player knows, there are lots of small differences in the "clones" that add up to make them worthy of having separate playstyles.

However. We KNOW some of the characters are getting the ax this time around. Obviously it makes more sense to get rid of one of the Links or Pichu than to get rid of Roy, Gannondorf or even a more "original" character like Ice Climbers. If Dr. Mario and Pichu don't show up in Brawl, I don't think too many people will refuse to buy it

[CE]

Well, maybe not on the Marth and Roy issue (although, they could be set apart and replaced by Eliwood), but you can just set the clones on to the different costumes. As someone already said here, mario's costume would be the regular ones, plus and extras Dr.Mario one.

[The Author]

By how much did we multiply the media size from GC to Wii?

4 times, 5 times?

Assuming they double the graphic quality, they can still include twice as many characters and stages...

I don't think they would cut any characters.

[Penfold]

By how much did we multiply the media size from GC to Wii?

4 times, 5 times?

Assuming they double the graphic quality, they can still include twice as many characters and stages...

I don't think they would cut any characters.

Closer to 6 times, since the GC disc capacity was about 1.5gb and dual layer dvds hold 8.5gb.

I agree there's no technical reason to drop characters, stages, etc but there should be more of a limit on characters IMO. I'd love to see a bunch of new characters in the game, but at the same time I don't want too many characters, so for that reason I think it'd be alright if they dropped a few current characters in favor of new blood. Of course, if they added a bunch of new characters without dropping anyone, I wouldn't complain too loudly either .

[Devyn]

Dammit I want Toad, and Mouser. (Mario 2 fan here)

[Mouser X]

You called? Oddly enough though, no, that's not where my name originated from. Though I agree, cool character. If they have Snake using explosives in SSBB, I don't see why Mouser couldn't be in there as well. That's certainly something I wouldn't mind seeing. Though, chances are that I'd never play as him. I'd end up blowing myself up too often. I already blow myself up when I'm playing Link. I have often pulled a bomb out by accident, and not realized it until it was to late... That should make it obvious that I don't play SSBM for tournament play. I play for fun (most of the time). Mouser X out.