Recommended Programs for Remixing

[Beatdrop]

I meant automation as in AUTOMATION, not as in the edit events thing. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the edit events thing because it hates automating things in VSTi's that I use that aren't included with FL but it gets the job done.

Uhhhhhhh.

I think you're going to need to expand upon what you're talking about here, because as it is, I don't have a clue what you mean. The event editor's sole purpose is the creation of automations. I've used it with a colossal list of VST plugins, and not once have I encountered a situation where it didn't work correctly. While I may defend the default plugins that come with FL, I rely on VST plugins 97% of the time.

And Doomsday, I wasn't singling you out. Your post just primarily annoyed me because a whopping 87.9% of its 166 word content was spent expressing why you think it sucks. I was primarily annoyed by SnappleMan's statements, which basically said that the only person who can make good music with FL is zircon, when that, to be blunt, is bullshit.

And regarding your statement about FL's included effects plugins that

None of them are really anything special or amazing and most of them have better, free alternatives.

that has not been my experience. Reverb and Reverb 2 have consistently proven to have a better sounding reverb than any other plugin I've used, including Korg's MDE-X, Ambience, DFX Transverb, Classic Reverb, and Sony's Reverb and Acoustic Mirror plugins. Fast Dist is my second most frequently used distortion plugin, admitedly right behind TriDirt (a free VST distortion plugin). Flangus is the best Chorus/Unison plugin I've worked with, providing a startling array of uses and wide range of sounds. Free Filter is a fantastically resonant multi-filter plugin that is vitually does not affect your CPU usage, all the while being fully capable of blowing out some speakers if need-be. I could go on for awhile, making mention to Waveshaper, Stereo Enhancer, Vocoder, and a few others, but I think I'll leave it at that.

While they may not appear to be anything special, they all have fantastic audio quality and are very well integrated into the program.

But yes, you're right. I worded my statement incorrectly in saying it's about knowing how to use it. I'm not trying to say it's the best music creation suite out there. It just is for me. SGX hit the nail on the head. Meanwhile, he's able to be the most proficient user of Reason on this entire website, and I can't comprehend that because, as far as I'm concerned, it has one of the worst sequencers out of all the programs I've used, second only to Project 5. But it works for him.

[Beatdrop]

Hey man, I don't mean to demean what you do ... My music is my music, not Cubase music. If you can't dissasociate your music from the means of creating it, then you need to like, stop that o_O

That wasn't the problem at all. You can state how much you hate it all you want and that won't bother me all that much, because I've heard it a million times before.

However, once you start saying that "I think that recommending FL to someone is pretty much a death sentance when it comes to quality music," that's when it starts to bug me. Because in saying that, you're directly associating my music with the means used to create it.

[SnappleMan]

Well, you know how I exagerrate everything

I'm like Cranky Kong, I bitch about everything and nobody cares cuz they only wanna listen to people who are nice.

[Rellik]

Oh, and Rellik, you must not have that much experiance with real guitar amplifiers. When I hear those free plugins that ever non or bad guitarist raves about, they sound like a voice talk program trying to emulate real speech. Non guitarists don't realise that an amplifier is an insturment just like a guitar or anything else. They have tonal responses and dynamic characteristics that are very hard to capture in emulated form. Guitar Rig is the ONLY software guitar modeling that comes close to faithfully reproducing how real amps work and feel. I mean, you can use an amp simulator to add distortion to a synth or something along those lines, but it's core functionality is what it should be based on. It's like me saying that my PS2 doesn't suck becuase it makes a great doorstop.

You're right, I am not (well, barely) a guitarist. I realize that guitarists are very concerned about their amps, and that amps have very detailed and intricate characteristics at different dynamic levels and frequency contents, etc. etc.. However, do such concerns dictate the usefulness of an amp sim?

To put it simply, the only thing I personally need in an amp sim (and I'm sure this goes for other non-guitarists as well) is the ability to create high quality, believable guitar tones - no nuance or fine detail required! Especially given the fact that I'm using it with sampled guitar in the first place you should really check out FreeAmp2 if you haven't yet, though - lots of different amp and cabinet options and I need to go look up WTF "Variac" is but it sounds great on the "A" setting and there are lots of stomp boxes and some pretty awesome presets and you can switch between open back and closed back - I can't believe I didn't know about them before, but open backed amps rule!

I'm like Cranky Kong, I bitch about everything and nobody cares cuz they only wanna listen to people who are nice.

No - generally people only want to listen to people who are saying useful things. And most of your bitching isn't worth bitching about! Saying "FL will always be a poor way to create music" isn't going to convince anyone, and "I think that recommending FL to someone is pretty much a death sentance when it comes to quality music. Unless you're Zircon, and there's only one of him." is a lie readily apparent to anyone who checks up on it. "it looks like FL will never be something I can find useful to me" was good - maybe someone will learn something from that if you explain a bit more (like Doomsday did, for example - although it seems you don't have as much experience with it as he).

If your bitching isn't helping people, then why are you doing it?

[The Vagrance]

I find his bitching funny, kinda like realpolitik, not everyone needs to be so damn serious on this site, especially considering how many people were helping the original poster.

[SnappleMan]

Rellik, my point was that the "high quality" is something that depends on more than just a distorted sound. While you may be able to fool some people here, those cheapo amp sims wont fly when you're confronted by a guitarist.

And yeah, I mainly bitch because logic and reason never really found a place here at OCR, so I find it best to just bitch aimlessly. People, like beatdrop up there, get too attached to what they use that they take any criticism on the software as if they themselves created it.

Alot of people here generally have too much to prove and don't want to believe that they have room for improvement in their own abilities and in the software they use. Arguing about it intelligently and bitching about it both yeild the same result because like I said, they have too much to prove.

This topic is making me feel like I'm 12 and arguing with some kid why my SNES is better than his NES because his parents wont get him one. "The square controller is just as good!" "The graphics look the same to me!" "Yeah well, your mom is fat!"

[OverCoat]

I find myself agreeing with Snapple

[Rellik]

Ah - so the reason for the bitching is not the content of the bitching, but the statement you make through the bitching itself?

Because I wouldn't disagree with your point (although I don't really see the behavior you're pointing out as much here at OCR as I do in other places), but the fact of the matter is that unless you say something to that effect along with your post, then it's indistinguishable from the bitching of the ignorant and generally cantankerous.

Anyway, back to the amp sims yeah, if I were "confronted" by a guitarist about the guitar tones I'm getting, I guess I might lose that "battle". I think the positioning of the quotation marks I've deposited there will give you a good enough idea of what I think on that subject

EDIT: to be clear, my argument isn't that free amp sims are better or as good as expensive ones, it's that they're not, as you put it, "garbage"

[CC Ricers]

While I can see how noobs will abuse FL Studio, it's not a program to scoff at. The correct question new remixers should be asking themselves is, "Which program(s) go best with my working habits?" I've tried Ableton Live, Reason, Cubase, and a few more and they all have their pros and cons. For example, I find building whole songs by patterns more intuitive in Live than in FL.

At its core, FL Studio is really a software groovebox. When I first used Fruity Loops 2.5 that's what it actually was. No Piano Roll, no big VST support, just a bunch of buttons representing 16th notes and I think this is why it's so intuitive to noobs. I owned a Korg Electribe and it works in almost the same way as this early FL. Later I found it to be too limiting for my needs, but I was able to kick out some nice tunes before first opening the instruction manual. So really, just use what you feel gets your ideas from your head to the speakers the easiest. And there's no shame in using several programs if you need to compromise a bit.

[SnappleMan]

People who know me well enough know that I support the idea of doing what you have to to get your music to sound how you want it to sound. Which is why people getting upset over my criticism of FL is stupid. As long as it makes you happy what does it matter if some fatass on the internet talks shit about it?

You don't think I hear the "Guitar Rig sux cuz it aint REAL amp" argument from old people? You think that bothers me?

I look forward to reading someones complaints about what I use, that way I might notice that a problem I've been overlooking, or not taking seriously because I might have thought that it's inheriet in all software.

Chillax, OCR.

[Rellik]

Frankly, SnappleMan, I don't recall enough about WTF we were all talking about to be able to make an adequate reply to something like that (as I was otherwise intending).

I still hold the belief that inflammatory remarks should be used only rarely, if at all, especially if they directly reference the quality of peoples' work. It would be stupid to make such a comment and NOT expect people to come running to (a) defend the merits of their tool/instrument of choice and ( defend their own work!

Obviously I don't personally fault you for your comments or hold it against you - but you should realize by now that it's natural to argue over and defend one's instrument of choice, or else you would quickly forget your own opinion in favor of those of others and end up drifting from sequencer to sequencer or hardware to hardware or instrument to instrument and wasting money, time, and angst. The sentiments expressed in your posts really add up to something quite similar to a Troll Manifesto - and while I really think we've had some very important and useful trolls (e.g. Prot), just be sure you wouldn't rather engage in normal, non-inflammatory discussion instead, because it's hard to go back.

EDIT: I don't know about Beatdrop, or the rest who felt personally insulted by your "unless you're zircon" comment, but I'm personally quite chillaxed. If you are going the troll route, you're better at explaining yourself than any other one I can think of.

[Beatdrop]

Nah, I really don't give a shit anymore. It isn't an argument that can be won by any parties involved, so I'm just not going to care anymore. My whole reason for even caring in the first place comes from my own feelings that my music isn't as widely enjoyed as it sometimes seems like it is. I rarely feel I get the exposure I need (or, dare I say, deserve [warning!! bold statement!]), so it makes sense for me to blow a gasket when the software I use is referenced to as only being usable by zircon alone.

[zircon]

Hey just so you guys know, Snapple's my friend but I don't agree with that one statement. Then again I don't really take him seriously a lot of the time.

[Navi]

Snapple wanks at work.

<3

[DarkeSword]

Hey man, I use FLStudio.

Also: learn about writing music before you even try to produce it.

[SnappleMan]

Oh, I see, it's "Let's all hate SnappleMan" time

Fine

[suzumebachi]

MUTHAFUCKAAAAAAAAAAAAA

also, I use FLStudio (have been since it was still called Fruity Loops... version 2.something) and I agree with Snapple. There are tools out there that will do the same job better. I've tried Reason, Cakewalk, and Cubase. However I use FLStudio because I'm familiar with it. After messing with it for the last 4+ years I've become accustomed to it. I know it's limitations, I know how to work around them, and I damn sure know how to get it to fucking do what I want it to fucking do.

But I'll tell you one thing, if it was Cubase I picked up 4 years ago, I'd definitely be using it instead.

Oh, and Guitar Rig 2 is sex.

[Skrypnyk]

Oh, and Guitar Rig 2 is sex.

Such true words have never been spoken...*sniff*

I too am a FL user btw...*thumbs up*