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Supercoolmike

Perfection VS Mistake

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I don't really know how to form this question since its really broad, but what is your guys opinion on the matter of "perfection" in music? I understand why people can hate it since it takes away the human element, but what about musicians that practiced so hard for so long where they're damn near perfect in there performances? Do ( or should) people hate there music now?

I Say this because it became quite clear and relevant to others how fast music has been accessible for Beginners and professionals alike, but both sides seems to have there own unique problems that contradicts each other in some form. I'm gonna assume here thinking the end game for this topic is that; one side wants to AVOID perfection (DAWS), while the other side wants to BE perfection (live recordings/performances). If one is ever superior than the other, would we then crave the inferior? 

I feel like this is already happening in the music industry but I'm really curious on what people have to say in the matter, Or at least send a link to where this topic has been discussed before. Thanks for taking the time to read :)

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Distinguish, perhaps, between mistakes and imperfections.  One is a failure of the performer, one is intrinsic to performed art or the medium by which it is conveyed.

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7 hours ago, Supercoolmike said:

but what is your guys opinion on the matter of "perfection" in music?

That is way too broad and subjective a question.  What are some examples of "perfection" in music in your opinion?

 

7 hours ago, Supercoolmike said:

what about musicians that practiced so hard for so long where they're damn near perfect in there performances? Do ( or should) people hate there music now?

Why should people hate on someone who practiced so hard for so long where they're damn near perfect in there performance?  That's incredibly juvenile.  That's like hating Usain Bolt for training to be a fast runner.

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11 hours ago, Supercoolmike said:

what is your guys opinion on the matter of "perfection" in music?

how far the music is perfect? I think that is the point of view of a person can say "this music is perfect"  for example if I say that this song is perfect, the other person will say otherwise..... perfect can have their minimum fault ... then nothing this world is perfect the last thing I said not make much sense

IDK if I write very clearly ... I could write in Spanish but most of these people understand in English

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This title is very misleading. You're using the word perfection as if to discuss aspects of striving for perfectionism but what you actually mean is writing music locked to sequencer grid (mechanical).

I've never met a single performer who strives for a robotic performance void of expression. There is a case for experimental/electronically enhanced genres like prog metal, but it's done for effect, intentionally, to evoke a sound. It's not the default means of expressing a performance, but a specific feeling for a specific kind of music.

I have never met a computer musician who's tried to add performance mistakes (wrong/pitchy notes, missing beats, etc.) into their humanization methods. We add velocity changes and timing offsets, but never to make the performance sound wrong, as if the person playing sucks at their instrument. If I were judging something like that, I'd scold for doing so much work to make samples sound human only to make the virtual performer sound like an amateur. 

There's no contradiction here. Everyone is striving idealistically for incredibly tight and expressive performances. It's just that in computers, the tightness is done for us, so we have to add the expression. In performance, we have the expression, but we have to perform to the best of our ability to add the tightness. This extends to cover expressions in tempo; for example, the difference between an amateur pianist doing rubato (playing void of tempo masked as expression) and a professional pianist doing rubato (playing with elastic tempo changes that keep the lines and phrases in correct proportion). This is why in proper piano practice, you're supposed to play the piece as strictly in time as possible, so that your fingers understand how it's constructed vertically and horizontally, and then you move on to adding expression and dynamic.

 

The problem with a mechanical performance is not primarily that it sounds unrealistic. That's a nasty side effect. The real problem is that it lacks expression. If something has expression, even though it is unrealistic, that is a lot more forgivable.

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7 hours ago, Skrypnyk said:

Why should people hate on someone who practiced so hard for so long where they're damn near perfect in there performance?  That's incredibly juvenile.  That's like hating Usain Bolt for training to be a fast runner.

I know it doesn't make sense, that's why I asked it because I would sometimes see examples of people doing just that. Either out of spite or just through jealousy. I don't want to give out examples cuz I don't want to be rude to anyone so I apologize if this doesn't exactly help out.

 

@Neblix Hit the nail on the head for me here. It dawned on me that I had completely forgotten the reason of why people would strive so hard to be masters at there own work and it kind of pisses me off that I had overlooked such an invaluable detail. just goes to show that I'm still a rookie in many ways :?

I appreciate the comments I have thus far. I understand that I could've said things better and will definitely try to be less misleading next time and more into the matter I was trying to come across.

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2 hours ago, Supercoolmike said:

I know it doesn't make sense, that's why I asked it because I would sometimes see examples of people doing just that. Either out of spite or just through jealousy. I don't want to give out examples cuz I don't want to be rude to anyone so I apologize if this doesn't exactly help out.

 

Maybe what you're referring to is when people write virtuostic music that requires expertise in order to play (like piano etudes or super fast shredding licks). People hate on that because they feel like the performance is distracting from the music... which is incredibly stupid and, again, juvenile as Skryp said, because the performance is the music.

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Music is subjective - the closest you can get to perfection is your own perfection, which others would disagree with for various reasons. 

I'd still argue it is a bad thing with creating music itself because obtaining perfection, due to the subjective nature of music itself, is almost impossible. I've known of musicians - fantastic ones - who are highly adept at their chosen daw/instruments/whatever, and haven't finished a single piece of music. Instead, they have about 200 WIPs all of which have been abandoned too early on because they can't achieve what they want. 

For me, to strive for perfection in music is to miss the point - music isn't perfect as an art form - and you can create unintended - but amazing - things by experimenting. Music should be a natural process, you shouldn't have to think about it too hard. Even if you have a plan, expect it to change as the track evolves, and don't fight that change because the best music is the music that comes naturally to you imo. 

In terms of performance, it is a matter of opinion. I still believe that perfectionism here isn't necessary since you can pretty much goof off and make some amazing unintentional magic, but there is nothing wrong with practicing a song to the point where you can play it as close to note perfect as you can - it all depends how much you want to capture the original mood or feel that the music originally conveyed. 

 

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If you're using the term perfection, subjectivity has to take a second seat to objectivity.  If music is wholly subjective, perfection is undefined, as there is no standard by which perfection can be measured.

Pick your terminology well in this discussion. :)

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