Rexy Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Original Decision Dear Judges at OCRemix, heres is my resubmission for my rejected mix from last year. I really tried to fix the points you mentioned – especially making the piano solo less robotic and adding more dynamics generally. Hope you like it and it passes this time Contact Info Remixer & real Name: Chris Kohler Email: Website: chriskohler.net Userid: 34798 Submission Info: Name of game(s) arranged: Shovel Knight Name of arrangement: Grand Shovel March Name of individual song(s) arranged: Main Theme Best wishes, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emunator Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 This is a fabulous example of a resubmission done right! While the humanization still isn't perfect on the piano and some of the more exposed legato leads, it's more than enough to get the job done! The orchestration is still lush and dynamic on the mixing side, but your sequencing is far more lifelike now. This reminds me strongly of Nutritious' grandiose orchestral arrangements, which I consider the gold standard for full-ensemble orchestral arrangements. Excellent work! Excited to hear more from you in the future YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 i wasn't on the original decision, so this is my first crack at this one. dynamic and exciting intro. initial presentation of the theme is well-realized, and uses samples that are definitely good enough to handle them. you do a nice job handing off the theme often while keeping it cohesive. playing with the main riff's location on the scale and then exploring alternate keys, like at 1:05, is a great way to get my attention in a good way. the subsequent block chords and tremelos were a little brusque and covered up some fun theme ideas, but still solid. the piano sounds super weird - even with no pedal there should be some carryover in tone, and the lack of room verb really shows up there. the subsequent section starts off beautiful but does get too loud for the samples you're using to feel realistic. right around 2:11 you start to go to a higher velocity trigger on your violins especially, and it really affects it at 2:27ish where it's just so robust of a sound and sounds odd. the ensemble stuff that comes in at 2:39 though sounds great and is back into what made the earlier sections sound great. the chorale at 2:53 is great - i'm a sucker for a chorale, they're so much fun! - and provides a nice break from the more martial feel of most of the rest of the track. the ending is sudden but not abrupt, and the track ends well. this is a great resub. nice work. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 It's a great orchestral arrangement. Sounds very much like what I would have expected if Shovel Knight were a real NES game and they made a Symphonic Arrangement album for it at the standards of the day. I'm not as thrilled with the production, though. The EQ is okay (though missing a bit in the mid-lows), the piano performance is well above the bar, and there's variety in the ensemble performances. But the samples still sound super thin and fake. The strings in particular sound MIDI-ish, almost SNES-quality. The horns often drop to that level, too. I didn't hear the original, but I'm afraid this one isn't doing it for me. It still sounds much more fake than what I feel like we're accepting at this point. Sadly I don't have orchestral production experience myself, so I can't help you, but hopefully someone else can offer you more constructive advice. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonAvenger Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Arrangement is fantastic here, really enjoyed listening to this! The mix is energetic and powerful, it really highlights the melody well. I do think the samples aren't the greatest, but the way you wrote for them specifically fits nicely with each instrument's strengths. I also appreciate that the sections have varied moods, and do a decent job of transitioning between each other. Overall to nitpick I do think the piano section sounds like a completely different room sound, and feels out of place comparatively. It's a little jarring, but not a deal breaker in the long run. I'd also have appreciated some of the sections to overall be quieter to allow a bigger dynamic variation. The string section at ~1:57 could have started much quieter (and maybe more rubato too!) and swelled up to create a bigger contrast. Really lovely track overall. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I never heard the first submission, so I'm coming into this eval fresh. Opening orchestral vamping was in the uncanny valley of sample realism. Good stuff at :39 with dynamic contrast by changing the textures; nice lil' transition at 1:00 as well, and a nice move into a darker tone at 1:13. Oof, not a good look on that fakey piano from 1:43-1:55; it sounds like a WIP/proof-of-concept sketch there. Anything to give that a richer, more realistic sound would be great, because that was the weak link here of an otherwise nice concept. This was rightly criticized last time around, so I'm not sure if this was meaningfully improved from before, but it's still not there. What's even going on with the strings at 1:55? Sounded like the initial note faded in, which didn't make any sense. Then it's followed by super-fake-sounding attacks; the note-to-note movements sound very awkward in places. The strings from 2:39-2:50 for the build to the finish were also pretty exposed and that could have been tightened up with a wetter or more reverb-y sound; same with the brass from 2:53-3:15. No big deal, but there's also a small pop in the render at 2:30 during the strings. Well, lemme say, I enjoy the arrangement. The argument from the YESes -- and it's not an unreasonable one -- is that this sound quality, while not ideal, meets the production bar, with the arrangement carrying things. No hate if this makes it as is, but to me, it's several instances adding up of smaller detail work being missing for the overall soundscape that leaves this sounding too dry and exposes the samples too much; Chris's work here is definitely on the higher end of enjoyability for something like that, but it's still too apparent, IMO. It may just be a matter of applying some effects to give this a denser sound and could mitigate the realism issues. I'd rather hear this given another round of TLC. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSim Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 An orchestral arrangement of a chiptune source? Sign me up! I’ve got to commend your ambition on this one, especially since you’re using sampled instruments. I liked it a lot; here are my thoughts. The intro starts out perfectly, with all the pomp and majesty an epic knight’s tale warrants. Your instrumentation is on point, with that timpani roll leading into the brass and string build, with some lovely vibrato on the strings and a little tinkling bell to tickle the high end. Once the grand intro fades and we move into the snare rolls, there seems to be a disconnect in terms of timing between the rolls and the brass from 0:18-0:25. Was there a tempo change in the project during the build? It’s sorted from 0:25-0:37, so I can’t figure out why it sounds off before that. The flute lead sounds a little harsh at 0:57, however the long note at 0:59 is tempered with some vibrato, stopping it piercing too much. There’s some real drama with those low strings from 1:15-1:43, and the flute is mixed a lot quieter here which works well, although I appreciate you’re not going for a flute lead here. This dramatic section leads into a really interesting piano solo that does sound a little robotic at times, but because of the quirkiness of the solo, I actually don’t mind the slightly fake-sounding performance. There’s an odd moment at 1:55 where the strings come back in after the piano solo, and I think what’s going on there is you’ve used some volume automation to fade them in, instead of using a longer attack. Not a bad workaround if your samples are at their limit, but it does sound strange to my ears. In future, try and take a little more care with filter automation and draw more natural-sounding curves if you can. Of course, the best way to do it would be to find a sample that has a longer attack. The string section from 1:55-2:34 is nicely balanced with the left and right sides of the stereo space playing off each other, however I’m catching a pop in the left ear at 2:30. The thing that stood out to me most in this track were those 2 flute chords from 2:51-2:53. They’re absolutely not working for me, and mixed too loud so they really stand out like a 2-tone whistle on a lifejacket. Best heard in emergencies, not orchestral mixes! I would have liked a trilled flute note, layered with some brass or other deeper woodwind in place of the other flute, not playing such a jarring chord. After the strings, we move into some deep brass, then finish with some triumphant trumpeting and more pomp and fanfare on the knight’s return. It’s a well-constructed ending, but again you can hear a very audible pop at 3:30. I’ve already mentioned sample attack, but the sustain and release at the end could do with being a little longer too (hold the final note at 3:27 to milk it a bit), or perhaps the reverb decay. I just felt it ended a little abruptly. Overall it’s a fantastic arrangement, and a surprising feat to have pulled off in this style. There are some clear points for improvement, and some other minor issues that could be cleaned up in future mixes, but this does enough for me to make it through. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 There isn't much to add that the others haven't hit: great arrangement, solid orchestration, and a awesome source, to boot. The sample quality is a hair under par, but they're not terrible, either. The piano has a different reverb setting so it doesn't sound like it's being played in the same space as the rest of the instruments so it sounds pretty jarring when it comes in. That all being said, it's a tough call on my part since what's good here is really good, but it's certainly not without it's flaws. I think it's just good enough to be posted, though. In the future, though, while your dynamics and phrasing are good do try to be on the lookout for some better sounding samples since these do hold your skill back, here; you might give something like BBC's free orchestra VST a shot, if you haven't already. Also be careful to make sure your instruments all sound like they share the same space; that piano's disjointed reverb almost tipped me into giving this a NO, but fortunately it doesn't last too long, in my opinion. Orchestral arrangements can benefit from one reverb effect applying to all the instruments at once rather than instruments individually, just to avoid this particular problem. Good remix, not perfect but I think good enough, and something that you can use to springboard into something fresh and new moving forward. Well done! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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