*NO* World of Warcraft "The Stars Whispered His Name"

[Liontamer]

Hello everyone !

I made a new album (Black SeeD - Wings of Renaissance (2024) (Full Album) - YouTube, once again atmo/melodic black metal) which contains two VGM track, and here's the first one.

It's a remix of "Invincible" from World of Warcraft. There is of course the main know theme (chorus), but the rest is there as well, especially part of the intro during the beggining and the break section of the song. 

Introduction is remixing the actual introduction of "Invincible", but it's really diluted.

Chorus is repeated with added guitar sections and sort of counter melody with the breathy/airy pad.

After the break, I've included a section from "Arthas, my son" which is the trailer version of the music (1:11 / 1:40 in the original song, 04:26 / 5:36 in my remix), getting back to "invincible" with the intro section remixed in another way again, and back to the chorus.

This song once again takes inspiration from ambiant black metal (Part 3 (Like Music in the Night) (youtube.com).

I hope you'll enjoy !

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Games & Sources

Game : World of Warcraft

Song remixed : Invincible

Composers :  Russell Brower and Jason Hayes

 

Edited 16 hours ago by prophetik music

[prophetik music]

opens with some very light pads and sonar hits. band hit starts at 0:58 and features the melodic content over the top. guitars seem a touch hotter than i'd expect here, but the synth elements carry the melody clear enough. 2:11's the first break. the synths sound roughly the same as they did with the heavy guitar underneath, so maybe backing them off there a bit would have been good.

the band comes back in at 2:36 and there's some countermelodic elements in the high guitar which are nice (but a bit hard to hear). drums through here are pretty boring until around the 3:30 mark. There's a bit drop-off at 3:50 and then further at 4:01, and it switches to being synth-led again. the long pad attack here is really obvious and i didn't care for that at all.

the shift to Arthas comes at 4:26 and it's a nice change from what you had going so far. the feel is much heavier and the blastbeat is a good change from before which was getting dry. this does the audio sausage thing for a bit until 5:36 when it shifts back to Invincible. there's some repetition here - the last minute or so is similar to 2:36 - and then it's done.

from a mixing perspective, you do an excellent job of ensuring that everything's audible and clear all the time, even through the blastbeat sections. it's so impressive.

overall i found this more synth-led than other tracks i've heard from you, and i think i preferred when it was more guitar-driven. i think you leaned on the synths to make this not "black metal with a vgm track layered on top", as opposed to your previous submissions which were more holistically composed. this is still a fun track and it's definitely handled well - i just don't think the arrangement was quite as solid as your previous tracks. it's still over the bar and is a great listen.

 

 

YES

[Chimpazilla]

Very interesting mixture of synth and metal.  Some of the synths sound a bit gentler (and slightly dated) than would be ideal to fit with the guitars, but it still works.  I kind of wish the heavy sections were signaled, I jumped out of my chair when the first big section started.  

The mixing is working well; it's a flat-ish wall of sound (and Larry is gonna bitch about that fo sho) but that's how black metal is mixed.  Everything is audible.

Nice arrangement and combination of these themes, very full and rich, telling a story.  

YES

 

[Liontamer]

Awesome source tune choice; I'm ashamed to say I've never encountered it until now. :-D

Opens up sampling the original's choir; love the echolocation-style pings, which were a bit too muddy, but I'll live. Same with the guitar at 1:00; it's muddy and crowding out the brighter synth line, so I'm not getting synergy from it. Melody kicks in at 1:24, and I feel like I'm hearing the song playing out of a boombox while standing at the other end of a short tunnel; so much of the sound feels like it's bouncing off the walls multiple times and mudding together until 2:12.

The dropoff at 2:12 opened the textures up again, and things sounded clear until going back to the overdriven electric guitar and flooded soundscape from 2:36-3:54. Same from 4:48-5:36 until basically the end. From 5:36 until the end, things were crowded and the guitar was chewing up most of the space; things were a little brighter with the melodic lead to present contrast with the earlier part of the track.

I've approved some stuff by Black SeeD, and I have openness to degrees of personal production choices; call me biased, I genuinely don't see how this is enjoyable to have things mixed this way, with details becoming so muddy & obscured, genre-appropriate or not. The arrangement's solid, but this production's a dealbreaker for me due to being unable to make out the partwriting clearly enough. Strong concept, and I may get outvoted on the production/mixing qualms.

NO (resubmit)

[Emunator]

Ah man, here we go again. I've been making the case emphatically for this type of music before, and this feels like it boils down to the same philosophical debate. For me, the beauty of this track is in the feeling of it - I don't think that trying to approach this genre from an academic perspective or through the lens of a traditionally "clean" mix is appropriate here. The climaxes are intense and visceral without becoming colorless - the chord progressions maintain the source connection and carry the emotional weight of the track, even if the individual elements are indistinct. (I don't even think this is THAT out there compared to other bands I've listened to. I think there's a lot further that this could go toward a true black metal wall of sound, whereas this arrangement skews more to the atmospheric side.)

I will say that, in general, the programming felt pretty rigid and locked to the grid in a way that wasn't entirely convincing. I could stand to hear more variance in the velocity and performance of the synth leads especially - they feel relentless in a very different way than I described above, where one might use the word "plodding" to describe the feeling. The sonar ping synth is also mixed quite loudly compared to everything else, so it feels pasted on top of the mix rather than living in it. That element is probably my biggest gripe.

Additionally, the transitions between sections occasionally felt sloppy. For example, the drop off at the end didn't really have a smooth buildup or fade at 7:13. It sounds like you just cut the audio tracks arbitrarily, which I found disappointing. Kris also alluded to this with the lack of transition or buildup to the heavy sections, and while I understand that can be a valid approach, it's not exactly suited to my tastes either.

Overall, still a very compelling arrangement with wonderful macrodynamics and tones throughout. I don't think it's your strongest piece, some of the details just felt sloppier than usual but it's well above my bar, personally!

YES

[XPRTNovice]

So this is my first introduction to the debate around this subgenre, and I have to say I don't quite get it. I'm able to parse out everything with my ears. Yes, it's heavy, yes there's a lot going on, but to me, everything has its place. My only critique on this side would be that the drums, particularly the cymbals, are too far back, but it's almost a nitpick. 

My main beef with this piece is the length. It doesn't give me enough story to bear repeating so many times. I'm huge on brevity, and my gut tells me you could literally cut almost 50% of this piece without harming it. I understand the lean towards almost an Opeth level of length, but to me it fatigues my ear and breeds disinterest. By the time 3:45 came around, I couldn't believe I had only finished half the song. This is where maybe I could understand a stylistic/philosophical discussion of "I want you to be washed in these 4 measures for 4 minutes, the monotony is the point" but I'm not sure I'm on board with it. 

Then the song just sort of...ends. We don't get a build that's very different from what happened before it - we essentially get another serving of the first half of the song relatively unchanged, followed by a sort of random hit at the end. 

For me, its arrangement, but I'm borderline on it. The piece feels like a treadmill - even if it is a well-mixed, fun treadmill. Given the discussions above, maybe there's something I don't understand about this subgenre, but there needs to be an ending to this piece. 

NO (resubmit)

[Hemophiliac]

Wow, this was a tough one.

I don't understand the need for many of the sections to get a second or sometimes 4x repeat before it moves to another phrase. While this is a compositional/arrangement technique, the application here ends up feeling more drawn out. The original source had many of these melodies play a second time, but with definite differences to the first time they were introduced (for example: change of dynamics or instrumentation). When things get played a second time without changing anything to them, it just feels like adding length without saying anything significant. In terms of the macro-structure and how the whole piece is laid out it works, it's just the repeats within each section getting so dull.

1:25-2:11 we get the first presentation of the "chorus" as you called it from Invincible. Except you've changed it so that the first half of it (1:07-1:13 from Invincible on the YouTube video source) is the only part that we get and loop that. We recognize that as being from Invincible even though it's modified somewhat, and the amount of repetition also ingrains us into knowing it's your chorus.

2:36-3:00, 3:01-3:24 The "chorus" returns and plays 4x twice! And these 4x are identical except for an upper guitar added on the second time, but it's so buried it might as well not be there.

The final time this repeats 6:25-7:00 it doesn't seem like anything is different and is copied over once again.

In between the "chorus" sections and the intro I really like how you use the other parts of the source to act as bridges and create a softer contrasting texture. 

The production is mostly good, and you certainly know your genre very well. My only production gripes are few things being buried or taking up too much space. Such as the higher guitar during the second half of 3:01-3:24, and the sonar-like synth taking up a lot of space in the mix. I also didn't care for many of the synth choices, but that didn't factor into my decision.

The downfall of this, for me; is ultimately going to be in the repetition without variation or changes.

NO

[Flexstyle]

A lot of other people have given a lot of in-depth feedback, so here's a cliff's notes version of a vote: make transitions smoother and sequence drums more realistically. As a drummer, this always bugs me -- don't just slap a few patterns together! Give some human variation even in between sections rather than just "here is loop and there is loop and smash them together." Have some fills every few bars, give me something to indicate that the next section is coming up rather than a hard transition, etc. Not this lazy "hat over rudimentary kick and snare for 16 bars" stuff. The drum mix as well would likely benefit from bringing the cymbals down and the kick and snare up. 

 

There's more issues (and some that I don't really take issue with, like for instance the overall mix is passable to me), but I'll let that be the extent of my vote for now. 

 

NO

[Rexy]

Despite the length, this track was still easy to follow.  The intro got a full minute of exploration by itself, then the exploration of the theme itself over the following three minutes focused more on breaking apart the B section and restructuring as it sees fit.  The blast beats during the trailer section helped break moods together before going into working on the source's A section on return at 5:36 and going through transforming the entire loop.

I will play devil's advocate with Chris's repetition critique above and say that chopping and repeating individual sections is a way of transforming the source into your own.  That said, the transformed B section got used the same way three times with little differentiation between them, and with a track as long as this and sections as long as that, it adds up quickly.  Even changing up the rhythm guitars or percussion in the background - also while genre-appropriate - can be very helpful with carrying the ideas forward.

The production is a curious one.  The diluted first minute had the mood to set me up for whatever brand of black metal would emerge, though the whiplash from expressive bells to machine-gun drums and rhythm guitars felt very sudden.  At least when the sums of the parts bind together, they feel clean enough to do what they do - but I wish not to want everything at full pelt all the time, which gives off a mechanical feel.

I like how this arrangement is going, but the repetition and mechanicalization are significant issues that need addressing when making a future revision.

NO (resubmit)

[Gario]

Woof, took me a month too long to actually write up a review for this - sorry, y'all.

The source is pretty clearly apparent in the arrangement, so there's no source usage concerns with the track. As far as the arrangement goes, while the style of the mixing (which I'll get to in a minute) often makes some sections sound the same as others, there's almost certainly *something* different going on in every similar section - a countermelody, some alteration to the texture, etc., that does keep it *just* out of range of being repetitive, though the last moment at 6:24 could use something more for it to stand out other than it's at the end of the arrangement. I think it could've used more variety and spice in the main theme whenever it's present, but I don't think it's below the bar.

Concerning the production, yeah, it's a bit guitar soupy. It's not the worst offender I've heard, as the arrangement often opens up and does something great with the rest of the instrumentation, but when those guitars hang heavy they almost have no strike to them - it's all ring and little stroke, so to speak. That contributes to the mixing issues that folk have observed, since they're also pretty forward in the arrangement, and they sound like a wall of guitar. That being said, the instruments can still all be heard behind the guitar, and it's not the first time I've heard metal arrangements like this so I'm willing to chalk it up to some stylistic bias.

I have my issues with the arrangement, but let's look at the good that's here - there are some really cool textures at work (especially at the opening of the arrangement), it's very well representative of the source, and when that main chorus isn't playing the arrangement keeps the listener guessing where it's going to go. I gave this a listen and forgot I was supposed to be evaluating it after a point - I was enjoying it. I think despite it's flaws it's plenty fine for a post, so nice work!

YES

[DarkeSword]

It's a tough call but I'm gonna side with the NOs on this one. I don't feel like there was enough variation to justify the length here. There's a lot of repeated phrases, which normally I don't mind, but it doesn't feel like a structure thing here, just more like padding. I think the production is feature of the genre, so no qualms there, but Flex is dead-on about the drums; needs more humanization and variation, which I feel like you could pull off while still operating within the conventions of the genre.

Interesting take but ultimately it's a NO from me.