Street Fighter IV - is this the year?

[BigBoss]

It's still played here at most arcades (I actually beat some Japanese butt with my Ibuki the day before yesterday) but it just didn't seem to get the reception Alpha 3 did. Too deep? Too many new characters? Who knows.

I can't find it anywhere.

[Evilhead]

I can't find it anywhere.

Really? That's sad. The arcade on my old college campus (UCI) had a pretty good 2D fighter crowd with some excellent Third Strike players, and most arcades I went to at least had a machine. Pretty much all arcades still have them here, but then again more than half of the games in Japanese arcades seem to be 2D fighters.

[Doctor Shaft]

Exactly. 3rd Strike, despite it's pretty well established tiers, and known strategies, still gets played the heck out of. And what's more, it is almost never boring to watch (except maybe a Chun Li fight... Chun Li is the least exciting thing to see play in this game). There just really isn't a "point" to making another game.

Sure, 3rd Strike isn't perfect... but is it really broken either? While not everyone enjoys it's style, it's hard to say that it isn't very polished and well made.

[Evilhead]

Exactly. 3rd Strike, despite it's pretty well established tiers, and known strategies, still gets played the heck out of. And what's more, it is almost never boring to watch (except maybe a Chun Li fight... Chun Li is the least exciting thing to see play in this game). There just really isn't a "point" to making another game.

Sure, 3rd Strike isn't perfect... but is it really broken either? While not everyone enjoys it's style, it's hard to say that it isn't very polished and well made.

Yeah, I'd say that 3rd Strike is extremely balanced. True, there are tiers, but pretty much every fighter ever made has tiers. And unless you are playing in a tourney, there's really no reason why you'd have to play with Chun or Yun or whoever. I primarily play as Ibuki who is horribly nerfed in 3rd Strike. But she's just so fun to play with and I can surprise players with my spastic playing style. She gets killed easily with her low def but it's quite satisfying when I can wipe the floor with someone's higher tier character.

[EpicPoster]

Just being at EVO doesn't make a game good or deep. Dead or Alive 4 was introduced into the game line-up for the same reason that Mario Kart DS was; to reach a little more into the main stream. Now I'm not going to compare fighting games on merits because frankly I don't know enough about each individual game they choose to host, but I wil say that things change.

And for your information SCII was part of EVO's line-up only a few years ago, so that game can't be that broken (so please don't bash an entire series just because SC3.1 is broken beyond repair.)

Just being there doesn't make it a good game is true, but the fact is that most people at srk.com have accepted it as a decent enough fighting game. Maybe not spectacular, but good enough for competitive play. Also, the entire Soul Caliber series is overrated, and when people bitch about DOA while ignoring the flaws of the series they are trying to say is good is just retarded. But in the end, I don't care too much for either, I'm a 2d fighting fan.

Not every fighter. Sure some characters have strengths over others, but hey that happens in every game. 3s is a great example of where everyone in the top tier can just cancel each other out, so it really does come down to skill, unlike MvC2 where most of the time it comes down to who can infinity combo first

Wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG.

First off, about third strike. In 3s the best character is Yun. That's the general consensus. Guess what? This year at Evo, the top 4 were all the same character, Yun. Spots 5-7 were Chun Li, and a lone person at number 8 was Ken. The only chance you have of doing good with another character is by playing in team single elimination matches where you don't have to be consistent. Then you may see a Makoto creep up or other low tiers, but here in America where you have to play all day long, it is clear that Yun is the overall best character and is the most consistent.

Now about MVC2. It is obvious you know nothing about high level play, as you wouldn't state that it somehow requires no skill. But regardless, I will try to explain it a little to you.

In MVC2 there are four "god" tier characters. Cable, Sentinel, Storm, and Magneto. Now these are the best four characters, but it's a team based game. The best team is the team that works together, and usually a team will have a lower tiered character or two due to the assist helping the team dynamics out better, such as in MSP (Magneto Storm Psylocke). Psylocke's assist helps out Mag's rushdown and helps him set up the rom infinite. There is no one "best" team in MVC2. (However, there is a top person, Justin Wong. That guy is a beast.)

Really, the easiest way to help explain MVC2 at high levels is to show you, so

is a video. This is Duc vs Sanford, game 8 of their money match at Evo. There was something like $6600 in side bets running on this match, and it is pretty epic. Duc plays Spiral, Cable, Sentinel while Sanford plays Sentinel Storm Cap Commando. These are two of the best MVC2 players around, and yet "low" tier people like Cap Commando and Spiral are still in their main team because of their assist and how they help out the team dynamic.

[Trenthian]

My sources claim development has been slow but steady for the next street fighter.

There is still a possibility that the project will be shelved.

[Evilhead]

What are your sources, by the way?

[Trenthian]

What are your sources, by the way?

Sources which im protecting because they kindly violated an NDA

[MrBogus]

And why would they even bother when they went ahead and made the greatest 2D fighter ever, which has yet to be topped, and it is largely ignored outside the hardcore 2D fighter crowd? I'm talking about SF3:TS of course. It's still played here at most arcades (I actually beat some Japanese butt with my Ibuki the day before yesterday) but it just didn't seem to get the reception Alpha 3 did. Too deep? Too many new characters? Who knows.

I think it's too deep for the casual player and especially the first time player. The scrub tries to get lucky with button mashing, is occasionally able to bust out a super, is happy he is doing chip damage, but then starts to get a brutal beatdown by an experienced player. Scrub then holds down back, or worse, just back, and then is barraged by a stream of lows, overheads, and throws. KO. Repeat several more times, and he's out $2.00 and his ego is smashed.

Really? That's sad. The arcade on my old college campus (UCI)

Anteater power.

[EpicPoster]

I think it's too deep for the casual player and especially the first time player. The scrub tries to get lucky with button mashing, is occasionally able to bust out a super, is happy he is doing chip damage, but then starts to get a brutal beatdown by an experienced player. Scrub then holds down back, or worse, just back, and then is barraged by a stream of lows, overheads, and throws. KO. Repeat several more times, and he's out $2.00 and his ego is smashed.

You've just described every 2d fighting game by Capcom ever. It's not that it's "too deep" it's that people who are new to the game suck and have no desire to learn it. People who play Halo 2 for the first time with people who play every day get slaughtered too.

Really I don't think 3s is that deep at all compared to say MVC2 or CVS2.

[Martin Penwald]

And I can guaruntee if they made a 3D Street Fighter for the main series from here on, Capcom would lose so much money and so much respect with the gamers and the hardcore fans who buy everything from them that they'd utterly screw themselves. I have faith that Capcom, of all companies, is smarter than that. And I can't say that for many companies. I thought I could for SNK but they went and made Maximum Impact and jammed a knife in the fans' collective back.

SNK also made KoF XI, which is the best one since the great KoF 98 (and in my personal opinion, the best ever). So you can't really say they abandoned their fans; they just expanded their field of interest, hehe.

And as far as I know, they're currently producing a new 2D KoF which will feature completely new character graphics, i.e. high-res sprites.

[Devyn]

Well, I can say this much. Capcom (with the aid of Clover) worked wonders with Viewtiful Joe, which took everything good about 2d platformers and made it even better with the use of more powerful technology. I don't see why Capcom couldn't do the same with the Street Fighter series.

I would also like to see some re-innovation or closure to the classic Megaman series, and maybe wrap up the X series as well. Hot damn. If Clover worked with the best people involved in the Megaman series, the results would likely be incredible.

But isn't Clover getting axed?

Anyway, I'm very doubtful, because Capcom don't seem to be allocating big budgets for their trademark series. They've been beating the dead horse for a long time, and many gamers these days are focused on games based off of popular movies and characters - at least in America.

And most attempts at new franchises bite the dust, including Viewtiful Joe and Godhand.

Hell, does anyone really care about Okami? It got rave reviews from almost everyone, but it isn't tearing up the charts.

[MrBogus]

You've just described every 2d fighting game by Capcom ever. It's not that it's "too deep" it's that people who are new to the game suck and have no desire to learn it. People who play Halo 2 for the first time with people who play every day get slaughtered too.

Really I don't think 3s is that deep at all compared to say MVC2 or CVS2.

That true, but I think the learning curve for 3S is particularly steep and the gap between a scrub and the average dedicated 3S player is quite large. In SSF2T the normal attacks are powerful enough such that a scrub could get lucky and defeat an average player. Same goes with the button mashing that is rampant at the lower levels of MvC2 play. But with 3S, you have experienced players deliberately standing there and doing nothing but parrying all the telegraphed scrub moves, supers included, and then laying down the hurt for a KO. It is humiliating to see your opponent flash blue for half of the match and negate everything you just threw at him. At least in MvC2 there is enough simultaneous craziness going on that the scrub thinks he is doing something and that he was "this close" to beating the other guy.

The only other SF game I see as having a steeper learning curve than 3S is CvS2, with its rolling, dodges, and J-Def in addition to parrying, plus the always humiliating custom combos.

[EpicPoster]

That true, but I think the learning curve for 3S is particularly steep and the gap between a scrub and the average dedicated 3S player is quite large. In SSF2T the normal attacks are powerful enough such that a scrub could get lucky and defeat an average player. Same goes with the button mashing that is rampant at the lower levels of MvC2 play. But with 3S, you have experienced players deliberately standing there and doing nothing but parrying all the telegraphed scrub moves, supers included, and then laying down the hurt for a KO. It is humiliating to see your opponent flash blue for half of the match and negate everything you just threw at him. At least in MvC2 there is enough simultaneous craziness going on that the scrub thinks he is doing something and that he was "this close" to beating the other guy.

Have you ever played Super Turbo or Marvel Vs Capcom 2? No, I mean really. MVC2 is about the least scrub friendly game there is. I suck at the game and yet due to my understanding the basic fundamentals of the game I am literally undefeatable at it in my local circle of friends, and until they learn basics like AHVB x3 they will never touch me. Ask SuperTKO if MVC2 has a simpler learning curve, he'll give you an opinion all right.

Super Turbo is just the same. You could sit there with O. Sagat and throw nothing but low tiger shots and tiger uppercuts and the scrub will be helpless. Or be Dhalsim. Mp grab then when Sim lets go lk slide to grab again. If a scrub doesn't do a reversal, he literally losses the whole match without even getting another move. Seriously, if someone doesn't know what they are doing in Super Turbo it is ridiculous easy to abuse their weaknesses with simple loops like that and they won't stand a chance until they learn how to properly play the game.

[dsx100]

Americans don't buy 2d games anymore? Shit, better tell konami that so they won't make any more portable CV games.

I should say Americans don't buy original console 2D games anymore. They'll buy classics collections but not new original games. And when I said Americans I of course don't mean all americans. I'm an american and still love playing 2D fighting games but the majority don't. That is just how it is. Anyway I don't think Capcom can pull off making Street Fighter 3D and still making it a good game. SNK couldn't do it and I don't think Capcom can do it. If Capcom of Japan still has the license then maybe there might be hope.

[bouncerboy15]

But isn't Clover getting axed?

Yes, but I believe a majority of Clover Studio developers will migrate into Capcom's development studios.

[ILLiterate]

EpicPoster: I know how it works, I know about the EVO scene, I know about the god tier. I just really really really really really really really dislike that game when played seriously. When played for fun, it's fantastic but in tournaments it just blows to me, just like how people will hate one 2D fighter yet love another kinda like it (kinda like how I don't care much for Guilty Gear but DAYUMN am I down for some Melty Blood)

[Raziellink]

Hell, does anyone really care about Okami? It got rave reviews from almost everyone, but it isn't tearing up the charts.

What else is new? I could give you some more examples of great games that didn't sell.

[Eternal Testament]

I consider myself a coniosseur of 2D fighters, despite sucking to a profound degree at them.

MvC2 is deep because of it's team based tactics. Knowing how well a team of characters works together can make a hell of a difference in chaining combos.

3S is deeper than a mineshaft imo. The multitude of subtleties in play that can be achieved is staggering.

Should Capcom chose to make SF4, they should consider the fact that SF is popular with it's fans. An obvious statement, yes, but an important one. There seems to be a distinct lack of appeal for 2D fighters these days. I feel a 2.5D incarnation would satisfy both the Japanese and Western markets; 2.5D allows for super snazzy graphics (possibly Viewtiful Joe inspired) and also the the deep level of gameplay that 3S demonstrated.

If they were to go full 3D they'd be better off bringing Namco on board to help out as Capcom don't really have alot experience with 3D fighters, Rival Schools notwithstanding.

[The Instrument of GAWD]

Most the time I find myself cursing my birth into an American Household instead of a Japanese one is when it comes to Fighting Games, espically 2-D fighters. And yeah, I wanna see a new SF with a 50-50 cast of old (SFII, Alpha, etc.) and new (SFIII) characters, with spiffy CPS3 (or would it be CPS4 these days?) graphics. That'd be awesome.

Not to derail off topic much, but a totally new and revamped Darkstalkers/Vampire Savor would be awesome too. You know, with alittle less retarded 'superart system'. And with it's cartoony nature, it'd look beauty with today's technology.

[Raziellink]

Most the time I find myself cursing my birth into an American Household instead of a Japanese one is when it comes to Fighting Games, espically 2-D fighters. And yeah, I wanna see a new SF with a 50-50 cast of old (SFII, Alpha, etc.) and new (SFIII) characters, with spiffy CPS3 (or would it be CPS4 these days?) graphics. That'd be awesome.

Not to derail off topic much, but a totally new and revamped Darkstalkers/Vampire Savor would be awesome too. You know, with alittle less retarded 'superart system'. And with it's cartoony nature, it'd look beauty with today's technology.

And more importantly, we would be getting a new Morrigan sprite...after 12 years or something?

[xinster]

that the next street fighter (street fighter 4) will revolve around a new rivalry between Q and Oro!

[Eternal Testament]

What, Robo-Columbo and The Decrepid Diaper?

Good one.

[ILLiterate]

that the next street fighter (street fighter 4) will revolve around a new rivalry between Q and Oro!

Wrong, the next should either focus on Alex's fighting journey since he was made 3s main character, or will focus on the training Ryu receives from Oro (for those who don't know, Oro is convinced that Ryu is the strongest man alive and goes to train him, which should change his fighting style GREATLY)

[Eternal Testament]

It's likely that Ryu's outward style won't change that much. He'll likely have a couple of new specials and super combos.

What I'd like to see is more of a marked difference between Ryu, Ken and Akuma. Individual fighting stances and distinct flourishes. Ryu would be middle-of-the-road, cautious and calculated. Ken would be be flashy and showboaty. And Akuma would be undiluted fury.

There's only so much pallette swapping I can put up with.