The 2D Fighter Thread

[ILLiterate]

It's an ok game for a while, but then you realize that everyone who plays is pretty much a master of their character and everyone's. It's a hard game to get into and you will get your ass beat constantly. It's ok though, not bad, but I don't like the characters at all

[Broken]

Damn it I-No. The real reason noone plays 2-d fighters anymore is this. Arcade modes are gay. My Semi-button mashing-semi-SSF2:T style was getting me through the game fine, but then I arrived at the boss who was simply cheap and unfair to play.

I mean, it's okay to have a difficult attack pattern to follow and everything, and alright, you can be faster than me- I'm used to that kind of crap- but do you honestly have to have a constantly regenerating super bar? Ever time I was finally on the offenesive against that woman, she'd pull out some ridiculous super move that made her invulnerable and took of a good 1/3'd of my health. That is gay.

I hope the other modes in the game are better than that. Now that I think of it, I'm going to have to switch the difficulty down to super-easy. I didn't buy the game to subject myself to mental torture. I'm no masochist. Just bought the darn game because it looks and sounds great and it was $6.00. Forget actually getting good at this stuff.

[Jimmy Jazz]

How to beat I-No:

1)Go chip

2)Avoid annoying ball attacks - One you just have to go to the end of the screen and crouch, another you crouch in the middle of the screen and then slowly move as the attack moves, and for the hardest one, go right up to her then tripple-jump (If you are chip, that is. Every other character, with the exception of Justice who you unlock way later, can only double jump)

3) Charge special bar

4) When it's pretty high, corner her and then press all the buttons at once, putting you into instant kill mode, and then 2xQuater-circle... something (On the PS2 pad it's O, but i don't know about the X-Box). She usually walks right into it.

Alternatively, keep playing survival or story until you unlock SP mode for a character you are good with, select them with start to get dark mode (with an unlimited special bar) and then spam her with overdrives. Or just practice a lot for 4 - 6 months and get really good.

[Broken]

How to beat I-No:

1)Go chip

2)Avoid annoying ball attacks - One you just have to go to the end of the screen and crouch, another you crouch in the middle of the screen and then slowly move as the attack moves, and for the hardest one, go right up to her then tripple-jump (If you are chip, that is. Every other character, with the exception of Justice who you unlock way later, can only double jump)

3) Charge special bar

4) When it's pretty high, corner her and then press all the buttons at once, putting you into instant kill mode, and then 2xQuater-circle... something (On the PS2 pad it's O, but i don't know about the X-Box). She usually walks right into it.

Alternatively, keep playing survival or story until you unlock SP mode for a character you are good with, select them with start to get dark mode (with an unlimited special bar) and then spam her with overdrives. Or just practice a lot for 4 - 6 months and get really good.

Thanks for the info. Funny how I couldn't find anything this helpful on Dustloop.com or anythiing. Yeah that ball thing is really annoying, but worse than that is her ariel super move. She jumps right above you (or lets you jump and gets under you) and then activates the thing, and it requires really fast reflexes to block.

Edit: and not to discount your advice, but I'd rather just beat her into submission in easy mode than completely change my play-style to win in normal difficulty. (I have no pride when it comes to these things.)

[Citris]

The only time I have ever beaten I-No is in Sol Badguy's story mode, and that's because you get boosted power\speed and a constantly full tension bar.

I came close with Faust in Arcade Mode once, but then her special boss attack killed me.

[Kamahl]

Damn it I-No. The real reason noone plays 2-d fighters anymore is this. Arcade modes are gay. My Semi-button mashing-semi-SSF2:T style was getting me through the game fine, but then I arrived at the boss who was simply cheap and unfair to play.

I mean, it's okay to have a difficult attack pattern to follow and everything, and alright, you can be faster than me- I'm used to that kind of crap- but do you honestly have to have a constantly regenerating super bar? Ever time I was finally on the offenesive against that woman, she'd pull out some ridiculous super move that made her invulnerable and took of a good 1/3'd of my health. That is gay.

I hope the other modes in the game are better than that. Now that I think of it, I'm going to have to switch the difficulty down to super-easy. I didn't buy the game to subject myself to mental torture. I'm no masochist. Just bought the darn game because it looks and sounds great and it was $6.00. Forget actually getting good at this stuff.

who cares the only reason to play fighting game is to play other people, playing the computer just makes you worse

also, you said your current stick doesn't work for your computer, do you not have the right converter or does the computer just not recognize it?

[Jimmy Jazz]

Edit: and not to discount your advice, but I'd rather just beat her into submission in easy mode than completely change my play-style to win in normal difficulty. (I have no pride when it comes to these things.)

You may need to use the same strategy in easy mode. I know I did when I started out. I spent three months figuring out how to beat her. The bitch.

[Jimmy Jazz]

who cares the only reason to play fighting game is to play other people, playing the computer just makes you worse

Very wrong. Especially in Guilty gear. Maybe fighting against the computer makes you worse at fighters, but it really helps me.

[Kamahl]

not wrong

if you ever get decent at a fighting game and get some human competition you will realize that the computer teaches you bad habits and that you learn nothing from playing them

[Jimmy Jazz]

not wrong

if you ever get decent at a fighting game and get some human competition you will realize that the computer teaches you bad habits and that you learn nothing from playing them

I get plenty of human competition. Granted, I use different strategies against the computer than I do against most human players (especially when it comes to I-No users), but I wouldn't say playing against the computer makes me any worse.

What's your opinion of a 'decent fighting game, then? Perhaps my experience is completely different because I have playing different games. Any game in which fighting against the computer makes you worse at fighting human opponents I would say was flawed to some extent, but whatever.

[Broken]

Sorry fellas. You'll have to excuse my ranting. I still believe that arcade modes are simply no fun when things are stacked against you like that, but I also realize that fighting games are at their best when two humans are playing. I don't see why you'd need to join the form just to tell me that Kamahl, but whatever.

I wasn't as mad about I-No when I realized that she's just like a weaker SNK boss. It brought memories of hours lost getting beat by Rugal and Krizalid. Those guys are in a league of their own with crap-tacular high priority moves and super-human reaction speed.

[Arek the Absolute]

Zero is the worst. I loved it everytime I finished him of with Iori, just cause he pissed me off so bad. Loved seeing Iori rip him apart.

[Sega.]

Broken: rugal <3

Arek: zero </3

But yeah, I get your point Broken, I'm like you in that I think Arcade modes should be retailored to be non-cheap (hooray for making up words), much like 3d fighters are going, by using japanese arcade data for their computer controlled characters.

[Broken]

also, you said your current stick doesn't work for your computer, do you not have the right converter or does the computer just not recognize it?

Computer doesn't recognize it. I have no idea why, really. If you have any idea how to make a Pelican wireless stick work on PC, I'm open to suggestions.

My next project will probably be to make my own stick with psx controller parts and then use me PSX -.usb converter on that. It should wor in theory.

Arek: How could I have forgotten about Zero, that old bastard. (ah, the memories)

[Kamahl]

What's your opinion of a 'decent fighting game, then?

Super Turbo, Guilty Gear X2(#R,/, or AC), Marvel Vs Capcom 2, Capcom Vs Snk 2. Also I said nothing about a decent fighting game, I said if you get decent at a fighting game you will see but w/e.

I've heard about how Virtua Fighter uses japanese arcade data from the top players to make their AI, but I know nothing about 3d fighters so I can't tell you how playing the AI will make you in it, but trust me when I say I know a little about 2d fighters and can tell you that the AI will do nothing but teach you bad habits.

[Arek the Absolute]

Broken: rugal <3

Arek: zero </3

But yeah, I get your point Broken, I'm like you in that I think Arcade modes should be retailored to be non-cheap (hooray for making up words), much like 3d fighters are going, by using japanese arcade data for their computer controlled characters.

wut i never said i liked the guy D:

read more of my post than the first word sheesh

[Evilhead]

My next project will probably be to make my own stick with psx controller parts and then use me PSX -.usb converter on that. It should wor in theory.

Yeah, the PSX-USB adapters work great. I'd suggest getting the 2-player version, and your comp becomes and full arcade. Here's a good guide for building a stick, although there is a LOT more information out there.

http://wrongcrowd.com/arcade/joystickp1.shtml

As far as wiring and whatnot goes it's very good with some nice pictures, but his button layout he chose is totally retarded for obvious reason. The best way to do it though is to design your own template. You can download a template off many sites and then adjust it to your hands in paint/photoshop or just use it as is.

Order your parts directly from HAPP (http://www.happcontrols.com/) or find a smaller supplier like I did. As long as they stock the HAPP parts you will be fine, and you might be able to get the parts a little cheaper than ordering them direct. Don't use any non-HAPP parts. If you are going to bother building a stick, you might as well use 100% official arcade parts. Your stick will be better than anything you can buy (even X-Arcade, etc) and better than most beat up arcade machines.

[Jimmy Jazz]

Super Turbo, Guilty Gear X2(#R,/, or AC), Marvel Vs Capcom 2, Capcom Vs Snk 2.

I own all those games, except Super Turbo. I'm telling you, the AI doesn't teach me bad habits.

but trust me when I say I know a little about 2d fighters and can tell you that the AI will do nothing but teach you bad habits.

Your experiences do not define everyone elses. I'm going to leave it at that.

[dsx100]

I absolutely can not believe it! For so many years I tought I was horrible at 2D fighters. SSF 2T, SFA3, MvC2,CvSNK2, KOF 2003, SF3:TS, are all games I cannot beat without continueing unless it is on easy or very easy difficulty. I was always told the computer sucks and that if I couldn't beat it I sucked. But it seems like a lot of people here have trouble too. I just couldn't imagine anyone beating those games on high difficulties and I guess I was some-what right. I actually don't know what to think now.

So what is the verdict, do I suck horribley or just a little?

[Kamahl]

Your experiences do not define everyone elses. I'm going to leave it at that.

Listen son. If you are trying to get good at a fighter and by good I mean actually compete in tournaments and win, you are not going to play the ai and get better.

For example. In Marvel vs Capcom 2, when you play Magneto, is the cpu gonna do rom inifintes and resets and use it's assists properly? No. The computer isn't going to do anything but spam random stuff like a noob because it is terrible.

In CVS2, when you play Bison on A groove, is he going to paint the fence? No, he's going to do some random CC that does nothing and you are going to think you know how to fight Bison and then get wrecked if you ever have to play someone who actually knows how to use bison.

The point is that important things like mind games, mix ups, traps, and pretty much all the important stuff you need to know in high level play you won't learn from the ai. The only thing you get from the ai is the most basic noob level of play.

If you actually want to learn about fighters, go to www.shoryuken.com and read the forums.

[Katsurugi]

Trouble with the computer? Always at first, but if you're constantly having trouble with the computer even after playing for a reasonably long time, something has to be wrong. It's not necessarily you as a player. The computer itself might have ridiculously high priority on his moves that you just can't get a hit in.

However, I usually find that you have to think about what you're doing and why you're getting beat. This means that you have to identify your habits and if there is any pattern you're falling into. "I always get finished with this move" or "That move has higher priority than this move." Then you have to just mess around and see if any of your moves is better than the other. If not, then you have to see what other method you can use. Otherwise, you'll end up eating damage all the time. Bait, use more footsies, but most importantly just block more. Take a good look at what the computer is doing. Find a way where you can get in.

But playing the computer over and over again will do something else, it will make you realize your old habits but help you fall into new ones. What you should get out of playing the computer is really a tier list of moves and how the general game play is. When you start playing other human opponents, your habits will be exploited. But if you keep good habits while playing with humans, it doesn't necessarily you will beat the computer the first time through. But since you have a good understanding of the game, you probably will win the second or third try.

Examples of patterns is when Shin Gouki in CvS2 does the double air fireball into the dragon punch. G. Rugal does the reflector when you throw a projectile from full screen. Patterns you can exploit are: Shin Gouki almost always throws a fireball after a knock down. Hibiki's QCF+HP is useful here. G. Rugal never blocks after a knock down. You can get three consecutive knockdowns with fireballs this way. There are flaws in the computers gameplay, you just have to go looking for them, just like human opponents. I played someone in SFA3 that was really good, but he just didn't block low. I must have swept him to death and he still wouldn't learn. My personal bad habit is that I do too many empty jumps. I usually eat any AA move usually a dragon punch.

[Arek the Absolute]

I absolutely can not believe it! For so many years I tought I was horrible at 2D fighters. SSF 2T, SFA3, MvC2,CvSNK2, KOF 2003, SF3:TS, are all games I cannot beat without continueing unless it is on easy or very easy difficulty. I was always told the computer sucks and that if I couldn't beat it I sucked. But it seems like a lot of people here have trouble too. I just couldn't imagine anyone beating those games on high difficulties and I guess I was some-what right. I actually don't know what to think now.

So what is the verdict, do I suck horribley or just a little?

practis maka da purfekt ya

[ILLiterate]

Don't use any non-HAPP parts

No Evilhead, wrong. Part choices come down to HAPP for the American style of gaming or Sanwa for the Japanese arcade greatness feel. If you don't know what Sanwa buttons would be like, think of Tekken 5 in arcades, those are Sanwa sticks and buttons, they're the ball top sticks (which are great for CvS2, 3s), while HAPP will be your choice for bat sticks (MvC2). You'll want competition buttons, I'd say Sanwa has the better ones since they're closer to the ground, but HAPP isn't bad at all

Also, paint the shit out of that fence son, an't ever seen a fence painted so fine

[Evilhead]

No Evilhead, wrong. Part choices come down to HAPP for the American style of gaming or Sanwa for the Japanese arcade greatness feel. If you don't know what Sanwa buttons would be like, think of Tekken 5 in arcades, those are Sanwa sticks and buttons, they're the ball top sticks (which are great for CvS2, 3s), while HAPP will be your choice for bat sticks (MvC2). You'll want competition buttons, I'd say Sanwa has the better ones since they're closer to the ground, but HAPP isn't bad at all

Well, I guess I'm biased because I hate Japanese style controllers. The ball sticks are a pain to use and the buttons feel so cheap. But yeah, if you do like the Japanese style controllers go crazy with the Sanwa stuff. I just don't like it personally.

[Broken]

Listen son. If you are trying to get good at a fighter and by good I mean actually compete in tournaments and win, you are not going to play the ai and get better.

For example. In Marvel vs Capcom 2, when you play Magneto, is the cpu gonna do rom inifintes and resets and use it's assists properly? No. The computer isn't going to do anything but spam random stuff like a noob because it is terrible.

In CVS2, when you play Bison on A groove, is he going to paint the fence? No, he's going to do some random CC that does nothing and you are going to think you know how to fight Bison and then get wrecked if you ever have to play someone who actually knows how to use bison.

The point is that important things like mind games, mix ups, traps, and pretty much all the important stuff you need to know in high level play you won't learn from the ai. The only thing you get from the ai is the most basic noob level of play.

If you actually want to learn about fighters, go to www.shoryuken.com and read the forums.

Yeah, that's all fine and good for those who like to search for competition and enter in tourneys and get into a game; however, sometimes one just wants to play a fighting game and be competent enough to understand it and beat the computer. I mean, this may sound shallow, but I mostly bought guilty gear for the eye-candy. I appreciate people who take the time to get really good at fighting games, but I don't see why they should be the only ones enjoying them. I mean, maybe it is unrealistic, but why can't developers make good ai instead of relying on silly gimmicks and predictable patterns? (ie. Super Turbo's arcade mode)

The unfortunate thing is most developers for 2d Fighting games still rely on that age old crutch of "well this game was developed with high level comptetitive play in mind." So, does that mean that "noobs" can't have fun playing it and or learn how to play by themselves? If not, then that's a fault in the game.

Virtua Fighter 4 is a good example of ample effort to make a fighting game fun with or without human opponents. It has kumite, which is difficult without being ridiculous, a REAL tutorial mode and- if you feel like getting beaten-up by Akira and co.- there is arcade. Tekken 5 DR (PSP) has the ability to download ghosts, like Sega was saying, and that is another ingenious way of creating a realistic experience for those who don't have any local competition.

I guess all that I'm saying is, why even put in a worthless arcade mode if a game is only ment to be played in versus?