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sephfire

Must-Have Games: The OCR List

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Sorry - but I'd give it a NO, unless you have a cheap module to load a savestate into the game.

Flashcarts don't allow savestates for DS games. Off topic, I know, but the only "savestate module" would be an emulator. Unless you count downloading a SAVE (as opposed to a save STATE).

As for Mario Kart DS. I'm going to say NO on this one. The AI is too annoying, the mechanics are way too focused around mini turbos and ultimately "snaking" the online has died and gone to hell (Only noobs and leets online, nothing in between), no online battle mode, only some tracks available online unless you hack it like I did (requires flashcart), cars are completely unbalanced (Only yoshi, drybones, SOMETIMES luigi, and similar cars are ever used competitively), items are unbalanced (CPUs get blue shells WAAAY too frequently)

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Mario Kart DS: Yes

I'm by no means a good player of racing games, but didn't find it to be that difficult. Some of the missions are, for sure, but I didn't have much problem unlocking all karts and drivers in the game, and I'm easily on the low end of skill. Yes, online play has its problems, but so do most other online games. Compared to the other Mario Kart games, the only one that perhaps rivals this is Double Dash, assuming you're playing with friends. The dual screen was used effectively, and I found the game to be pretty balanced. At any rate, I don't want a game where I can win all the cups on my first try.

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Street Fighter III: Third Strike (Dreamcast)- And now we have what some consider to be the pinnacle of the Street Fighter saga. As with the other SFIII games, it's a graphically gorgeous game, but now there are more characters, a bit of balance and gameplay tweaking, and of course, Chun'Li's terrifying huge tree trunk thighs. A very good fighter, that does have a nice amount of depth to it. While the default DC pad isn't the best for fighting games, there are plenty of third party pads (Madcatz made a great "Six button" one) that are perfect for this type of game. YES.

Last Blade 2 (Dreamcast)- One of SNK's lesser known fighters, but also one of their better ones. Good character designs, great backgrounds, good tunes, very nice graphics, a healthy selection of fighting styles, and it all comes together with unpredictable difficulty levels that keep the player on their toes. Where the first game was a bit sloppy, the second one was much better in terms of balance and gameplay. As with SFIII:TS, the controls are fine if you use a pad better than the default DC one... and really, I had no problems with the default one to begin with. YES.

Metropolis Street Racer (Dreamcast)- If you've played either "Project Gotham Racing" game on the XBox, then you know this game, as this is where it all started. The kudos are in place, the graphics are there, the courses are tough, and the controls are good. There are some nice tunes to listen to as you cruise the streets, and there are plenty of goodies to unlock. One of the better racers on the Dreamcast, and worthy of a YES.

Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King (PS2)- The offspring of old school RPG gameplay, and modern graphics. It plays so much like the DQ games of old, but it looks so much better. Very nice cel-shaded graphics, good animation, nice music, a long quest, nice voice acting, quirky characters, and some alchemy-like fun that allows you to actually make items to use in the game (potions, weapons, etc). It's a wonderful game that gets a YES easily from me.

Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge (XBox)- A flight game with a sense of style. The arcade-y controls make things easy to come to grips with, which makes enjoying the great graphics, good music, nice selection of "alternate reality" WWI/II-ish planes, fun missions, and nasty dog fights all the easier. You'll be flying through caves, buzzing huge zeppelin-like airships, and diving between buildings, and loving every minute of it. This is a great update to the PC games, that loses a little in terms of cinemas between missions, but gains that back in other areas. A nice twist on the "tried and true" mechanics of console flight games. YES.

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Street Fighter III: Third Strike

A very solid fighter, perfect for Capcom fans, but very difficult... I haven't got itnto it, I just dont have the time, but what I have played of it was awesome. Yes.

Metropolis Street Racer

Predecessor to PGR, and most of know how good PGR is. I think they made some better ideas with this one that were lost to make the game easier *not keeping your previous kudos if you do worse in the retry* but thats part of this one's extra challenge. Yes.

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Im gonna say No. It was an excellent premise but I just wasnt engaged by it at any point. Maybe it's just a personal preference, but no all the same.

Mario Kart DS

Ugh, could have been brilliant, but the snaking culture ruins it. No.

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Dragon Quest VIII Journey of the Cursed King: YES

Not my cup of tea in terms of art style (too close to DB/DBZ for obvious reasons: check the artist if you don't catch me), but then again, that's always been that way. Regardless of that complaint, the game does look good and is presented well. Amazing addition to the series and definitely a worthy buy.

Beatmania IIDX 8th Style: YES

Almost anything Bemani is a must-have in my book, but to be honest, there's nothing exceptional about 8th Style specifically. Beatmania is, in my opinion, one of the harder Bemani games to get into due to the sheer difficulty. I have been a part of the Bemani community for a while, so I already know of and am quite decent/good at all of the different rhythm games.

Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge: YES

Fun arcade action with good pacing in the single player mode. Bring it into multiplayer (especially with people in the same room even with, God forbid, the sharing of a single screen) and it is so much more fun. I've spent hours on end with my buddies just blasting each other out of the sky and stealing the booty for myself. A good time to be had.

Psychonauts: YES

The game has its own style and quirky fun. Nothing new or astounding in terms of gameplay in my opinion, but this is just so well presented that you can't pass it up.

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes: NO

While it is an amazing game, I do not consider this one to be on this list. The formula from MP1 is all there and the game itself is beautiful and full of depth. Unfortunately, the pacing is slow and unforgivable. I love to play the game itself, but when it comes to progressing, I lose interest because I already know all of the tasks at hand, and to be honest, it's just a bit much. I have beaten both MP games at least twice each, and I cannot recommend them for anyone who doesn't love the Metroid series already.

Mario Kart DS: YES

This is easily the best of the series in terms of gameplay and control. Bitch about snaking all you want, but this isn't the first time it's come up in a Mario Kart game. Complaints about the AI make no sense to me. The single player of a Mario Kart game has never given me a problem in the past, and this is no exception. I do consider myself on the higher end of the skill spectrum, snaking included, but I do not enjoy the online play. Although that is the biggest flaw with this title, that does not mean you can't get together in person with a bunch of friends and race. That's where the good multiplayer lies. Snaking is lame, but inevitable if you want to play competetively, which I don't recommend with this title.

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I know Psychonauts is getting YESs regardless.. but bringing nothing new to the genre? Are you kidding? Show me more creative level design where everything means something, is tied to the character and world, and I'll eat my hat.

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I think most of us are just admitting the fact that Psychonauts borrows a lot of it's gameplay elements from other platformers. The presentation and aesthetic of it all, however, are wholly unique and far more intricate than most. That's what makes it so brilliant.

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Street Fighter III Third Strike: Hell YES!

In my opinion, this is the best 2D Fighter to ever grace the face of the earth. There is absolutely no other fighter (2D or 3D) that even comes close to the level of deepness that SF III's fighting system has. The ability to chose which Super Art can change the way your character is played significantly, which just adds even more depth. The character roster is larger and more creative than that of the other SF3s. This game looks and sounds amazing as well. The animation is top notch. If you like Street Fighter games, or 2D fighters for that matter, and you haven't played this game, you seriously need to slap yourself across the face and ask yourself "why?". Street Fighter III Third Strike is an awsome game that needs to be on this list.

Last Blade 2: No

Nice looking 2D fighter, but it just doesn't even come close to the level of depth offered by other fighters. The character roster isn't very creative or inspiring either. Other SNK fighters are worth your time and money but not this one.

Metriod Prime 2: YES!!!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Metriod Prime 2 in my opinion. For those that think its to hard, I think you just don't like challenging games. For those that don't feel immersed, I think you don't give the game the attention it deserves. For those that think it isn't any different form Metriod Prime, your dead wrong. I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just trying to state my opinion and defend this game.

Here is why this game is so great.

The graphics and sound are execellent and a big improvement over MP1. The music is great. The gameplay is just as tight and fun as it was in MP1. The worlds are huge and much bigger than that of MP1. There is soo much to explore and find in this game. The monsters and enemies are very creative and unique and other tons of variety. This game is a little challenging, which I personally like. The story is much deeper and original than that of MP 1. You actually, even if just barely, interact with other characters in the game. To me, MP2 feels more like a Metriod game than MP1 did because of the inclusion of the old favorite "The Screw Attack", wall jumping, and color themed doors. The new weapons, especially the seeker missiles, are cool and well done in my opinion. Finally MP2 has more added replay value than the first thanks to the inclusion of multiplayer. The multiplayer isn't anything revoultionary or great but it still gives you a reason to pick it up agian.

That is why this game is great and a must play.

Also remeber what was said early:

Just a couple reminders:

2. A game does not have to be superior to all of its sequels to belong on this list. (example: if you think both MGS2 and MGS3 are must-have games, vote YES for both. The two don't have to compete for the spot).

Oh, and sephire, you just contradicted what you said above by saying this.

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes -- UNDECIDED

On the one hand, it adds a few cool Metroid trademarks to the formula. Spin attacks and such. But I remember not feeling quite as impressed with this one as with the original. Admittedly, it's been a couple years, so I'm sitting on this decision a while longer while I try to remember.

Mario Kart DS: Yes

This game is fun and my personal favorite Mario Kart. I love all the old stages included. Not recommending this game because of snakers is stupid in my opinion. You can't dismiss a game because of the way certain people play it. It isn't the game's fault people become obsessed with it and start doing whatever they can to win. There are going to people like that in every game you play. Its fun and a must play by any Mario Kart fan.

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I do not mean to offend, dsx100, but about your MP2 opening:

The fact that it is too hard or too easy to not have enough attention for it is a turn off for some people into a game. Your explanation also leads to my point that if you don't already like Metroid, then you won't truly enjoy the game. I understand that it's an amazing game, and I wholeheartedly agree, but I think that approving it for a list of games that transcend any kind of loyalty for fanboyism isn't feasible.

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I do not mean to offend, dsx100, but about your MP2 opening:

The fact that it is too hard or too easy to not have enough attention for it is a turn off for some people into a game. Your explanation also leads to my point that if you don't already like Metroid, then you won't truly enjoy the game. I understand that it's an amazing game, and I wholeheartedly agree, but I think that approving it for a list of games that transcend any kind of loyalty for fanboyism isn't feasible.

Don't worry man, You won't offend. Unlike some people, I respect others opinions (even if I disagree) and I am glad you gave some input on what I said. The thing is, when you are posting in a forumn like this, it is hard to aviod peoples opinions. So we can't really make a full-proof Must Have list of games because people are always going to disagree on them. I personally think it is stupid to dismiss a game or not recommend it for something as small "its to hard" or "I don't like this style of game". Like I have said before, I really don't like playing turn-based RPGs or stealth games. Ex. Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid. I however, I still recognize that these games are good and I recognize that they offered a lot to the industry, but I still by peronal tastes don't enjoy playing them and nobody's going to change my mind. That is what I was trying point out about Metriod Prime 2. Despite your peronal tastes and preferences, it has the formula that makes a great game. Then agian, that is an opinion in its self.

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Oh, and sephire, you just contradicted what you said above by saying this.

Not really. I haven't played it since it came out and all I really remember for certain is that I wasn't as impressed with it as the first game. However, since that's all I can recall with certainty, I left it with an UNDECIDED vote.

Reminder #2 (which you quoted above) is meant to keep people from saying things like "MP2 doesn't deserve a YES because MP was better." I know it sounds hair-splitting, but there's a difference between NO-ing a sequel because its must-have prequel was marginally better and NO-ing a sequel because you just don't believe it's a must-have.

edit:

Or to clarify further, if you think both games deserve must-have status, vote YES to both. You don't have to choose between them. However, if you believe one is a must-have, and the other just wasn't good enough to be a must-have, vote accordingly. Sometimes one game is just plain better. I was mostly reminding people of this so they knew they didn't HAVE to choose between sequels and remakes (like Skies of Arcadia and such).

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(PC) Elder Scrolls: Morrowind: YES

I think its really rare that a RPG comes along that is so damned good. Perhaps a little bit of balance is in order (the game is crazy easy as a thief), but I believe however, the PC version deserves this nomination. Morrowind and Oblivion have succeeded so well because of the massive amount of user generated content for them. The game already has near infinite replay value, and the content expands upon it and gives you new places to experience that replay value in. Don't get me wrong though - Oblivion was great. But they took out some freedom Morrowind had, and I felt I enjoyed it slightly less.

(PC) Knights of the Old Republic: NO

I really don't feel this game survived all the hype. On the surface, its not a bad game, but I felt the battle system to be too rigid and clunky. The choices between light and dark were cool, but both led you to the same place, and gave you the same outcomes, until almost the very end. The whole switch from Swashbuckler to Jedi was very poorly executed also. You know all those points you put in your blaster skills? Useless now, you have to use a lightsaber if you want to survive. KOTOR II was a superior game in almost every aspect, except the story felt extremely rushed and had an abrupt end (and indeed, a large portion of it was cut)

NOMINATION

(PS2) Star Ocean: Til the End of Time

Now THIS is one game I can get behind! Alright, so it starts out a little slow. The whole saga on Vanguard III seemed kind of shoehorned in there. Aside from that, its pretty much perfect. Probably one of, if not the best, combat system in any RPG to ever come along, Sakurabas greatest score to date. And who saw that story twist, huh? Its going to be interesting how they handle Star Ocean 4 with that. As far as the voice acting goes... well, at least half of them are good. But how often is there ever solid voice acting in a game?

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Not really. I haven't played it since it came out and all I really remember for certain is that I wasn't as impressed with it as the first game. However, since that's all I can recall with certainty, I left it with an UNDECIDED vote.

Reminder #2 (which you quoted above) is meant to keep people from saying things like "MP2 doesn't deserve a YES because MP was better." I know it sounds hair-splitting, but there's a difference between NO-ing a sequel because its must-have prequel was marginally better and NO-ing a sequel because you just don't believe it's a must-have.

I understand now, thanks for clearing things up. I hope you can get more time with the game and hopefully see what I see in it. If not, thats fine and just stick to your decision

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I have to add another NO vote for Mario Kart DS. It definitely had a lot of potential, but that was pretty much ruined by snaking, as others have said. I stopped playing after a month or so, and have had no desire to pick it back up.

Also, I just started MP2. Hopefully all you who voted 'no' are just dirty liars.

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***ROUND THIRTEEN***

Street Fighter III: Third Strike: GOD YES

Aye sir. The pinnacle of 2-d fighting games. It doesn't get any better then this. I had my doubts about the gameplay, my doubts about the characters, but those doubts were gone in an instant.

I still play it EVERY DAY (mostly because i own it for less then a year).

Last Blade 2

-

Metropolis Street Racer

-

Dragon Quest VIII Journey of the Cursed King

-

Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007

-

Beatmania IIDX 8th Style

-

Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge

-

Psychonauts

-

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes: No

Ugh, hardly even worth my time. I was expecting something as brilliant as it's prequel, but it turned me down. It really felt like they tweaked some of the gameplay...in the wrong direction.

Unline part 1, i NEVER had a clue where to go to next, and the fights with the Ing or whatever, just seemed pointless. This game just dragged itself on and on. I've read that the ending is cool, but i can't bring myself to beat the game, because there was a glitch or something that prevented me from killing the boss. Nice going Retro...€60/$72 down the drain...

Mario Kart DS: No

What do we have here? A cool driving game, nice items....nice handling. And that's about it. The online mode get's ruined by snaking-bastards, the tracks are all....meh? And the CPU get's all the good items, way to often!

It made some cool additions to the formula, but in the end, if failed.

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Some of my favorite games are quite obscure:

Rez

I'd definitely give a vote for REZ on both PS2 and Dreamcast. IMO a very cool beatgame, nice soundtrack, interesting concept. Same as with Squaresofts try to create their own "net shooter" called "Internal Section", where you could even load your own CDs (soundtrack) because the game was in the PSX Memory and it adjusted to that (like Vic Ribbon).

I still play it from time to time, but over here, the "second hand" versions of REZ (no matter if DC or PS2) are still friggin expensive. Wish it had a proper sequel, not just "evolutions" like Meteos and Luminies.

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Well, Frequency and Amplitude are quite nice spin offs, IMO, and they're pretty cheap.

You're right about the difficulty of finding Rez nowadays, though, and that's why I'm content to download an image of it, burn it to DVD and play it that way.

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And with this, we hit the two week mark. An update to the progress report will be made in a moment. Excellent votingsmanship this week, team.

******************************************************************************

***ROUND FOURTEEN***

Forza Motorsport

Console: Xbox

Publisher: Microsoft Game Studios

Developer: Microsoft Game Studios

Meta Score: 9.3 (99 reviews)

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

Console: Xbox

Publisher: Ubisoft

Developer: Ubisoft Montreal

Meta Score: 9.4 (88 reviews)

Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

Console: Gamecube

Publisher: Nintendo

Developer: Nintendo

Meta Score: 9.6 (15 reviews)

P.N.03

Console: Gamecube

Publisher: Capcom

Developer: Capcom

Meta Score: 6.4 (61 reviews)

Giga Wing 2

Console: Dreamcast

Publisher: Capcom

Developer: Takumi

Meta Score: 6.5 (15 reviews)

Virtual On: Oratorio

Console: Dreamcast

Publisher: Activision

Developer: Sega

Meta Score: 7.8 (35 reviews)

Shin Megami Tensei III

Console: Playstation 2

Publisher: Atlus Co.

Developer: Atlus Co.

Meta Score: (not available)

Daxter

Console: PSP

Publisher: SCEA

Developer: Ready at Dawn

Meta Score: 8.7 (76 reviews)

Capcom vs. SNK 2: Mark of the Millenium 2001

Console: Playstation 2

Publisher: Capcom

Developer: Capcom

Meta Score: 8.2 (47 reviews)

Gran Turismo 4

Console: Playstation 2

Publisher: SCEA

Developer: Polyphony Digital

Meta Score: 8.9 (103 reviews)

******************************************************************************

I actually haven't played any of these, other than the Wii version of Twilight Princess. I'm sure it's not much different between versions, but I'm sure there are plenty of other people who can cover that game instead.

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While I have an extra moment, I could also use some input on a related issue.

I've been considering the possibility of a sequel to this thread (once this one is finished, of course), this time covering a new collection of consoles and handhelds. Does this sound good to you guys? I'd love to just open it up to every console this thread didn't cover, but that's a pretty wide range. It could get overwhelming.

Here's the collection I'm considering for the next "season" of Must-Have Games:

SNES

Nintendo 64

Game Boy Advance

Playstation

Sega Genesis

Sega Saturn

PC

Thoughts?

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Reminder #2 (which you quoted above) is meant to keep people from saying things like "MP2 doesn't deserve a YES because MP was better." I know it sounds hair-splitting, but there's a difference between NO-ing a sequel because its must-have prequel was marginally better and NO-ing a sequel because you just don't believe it's a must-have.

edit:

Or to clarify further, if you think both games deserve must-have status, vote YES to both. You don't have to choose between them. However, if you believe one is a must-have, and the other just wasn't good enough to be a must-have, vote accordingly. Sometimes one game is just plain better. I was mostly reminding people of this so they knew they didn't HAVE to choose between sequels and remakes (like Skies of Arcadia and such).

On that note, I'd like to change my vote from a NO to a YES for Skies of Arcadia for the Dreamcast please. I'll even edit my original post (just finished doing that even). In my opinion, the *only* reason not the get the Dreamcast version, is because of the Gamecube version. If, however, we're ignoring such things, then by all means, SoA (DC) is *WELL* worth it. Even if you emulate it (it runs on Chankast, but crashes frequently. I've heard that NullDC and Demul both crash less than Chankast, but unless Demul has been fixed, its sound emulation is absolutely ear-shattering), I'd say go for it. Even though it crashes, SoA is beatable on Chankast (you might have to replay the last boss fight 10-20 times to get a crash-less game...). It just takes dedication.

So, by all means, please YES that one for me. Mouser X out.

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While I have an extra moment, I could also use some input on a related issue.

I've been considering the possibility of a sequel to this thread (once this one is finished, of course), this time covering a new collection of consoles and handhelds. Does this sound good to you guys? I'd love to just open it up to every console this thread didn't cover, but that's a pretty wide range. It could get overwhelming.

Here's the collection I'm considering for the next "season" of Must-Have Games:

SNES

Nintendo 64

Game Boy Advance

Playstation

Sega Genesis

Sega Saturn

PC

Thoughts?

Go for it.

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