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Starcraft 2


Shadow Wolf
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  • 4 months later...

I might be setting myself up for a flamewar here, but I think the Zerg might be taking longer because, out of all 3 races in Starcraft, they were arguably the least balanced. Whenever I played Zerg, battle strategy came down to one of two things: A 48 Hydralisk Zergrush with a bunch of Zerglings thrown in, or an extremely expensive 12 Guardian map wipe with Mutalisks on backup. I never felt like I had the options with the Zerg that I had with the Terrans or the 'Toss. The more expensive Zerg units like Ultralisks were basically never used, at least by me, due to time and expense. But granted I'm not amazingly good at Starcraft either.

At any rate, Blizzard has already shown that they're making HUGE changes to balancing and units for all the races. I just hope the Zerg get the treatment, because conceptually they were far and away my favorite race, but strategically I didn't like them much at all.

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^ Don't forget about defilers and queens. They seem useless at first, but parasite and spawn broodlings make for good spying and anti ground defense.

Defilers Dark Swarm ability lets hydras fight carriers effectively, and if you can get them in, Plague is basically a longer-lasting psi storm that hits buildings. Great for a group of supply depots...

With all that said, I do agree that the Zerg ultimately have to swarm to win, which wasn't the case with the other two races where you have more options on the covert side of things...

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With all that said, I do agree that the Zerg ultimately have to swarm to win, which wasn't the case with the other two races where you have more options on the covert side of things...

Which, of course, makes sense from a story point of view. The Zerg were never a species to be subtle. They always just gathered their strength and threw themselves at the enemy. At least until Kerrigan took control. But even then, the only subtlety came from Kerrigan herself, and then afterwards she'd still just throw down the hammer on the enemy. It's always been a "overwhelm and destroy" philosophy with the Zerg. "FOR THE SWARM!" and all that, y'know?

However, with Kerrigan at the helm for some time now, there may be more options within the Zerg for this game. We shall see.

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Which, of course, makes sense from a story point of view. The Zerg were never a species to be subtle. They always just gathered their strength and threw themselves at the enemy. At least until Kerrigan took control. But even then, the only subtlety came from Kerrigan herself, and then afterwards she'd still just throw down the hammer on the enemy. It's always been a "overwhelm and destroy" philosophy with the Zerg. "FOR THE SWARM!" and all that, y'know?

However, with Kerrigan at the helm for some time now, there may be more options within the Zerg for this game. We shall see.

Eh, lurkers do allow for SOME subtlety, pretty cheap assed units if your enemies lack detectors ;-)...but they usually becomes useless in longer games, except for helping with base defense and fast-strike ops or w/e.

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if your enemies lack detectors

This was another senseless weakness of the original Starcraft. NO race EVER lacked detectors by the dozens when being played by the computer, and no human being who'd been playing SC for for than 5 minutes would be without them either. And once a covert unit is detected, they have about 50 health unless they're a hero like Zeratul. For example, in 4 years of playing Starcraft, I have successfully completed ONE covert nuke strike because it's so hard to get the Ghosts in undetected to paint targets. I can assemble and execute a 12 tank plant n' pound siege crawl and obliterate the Protoss from one side of the map to the other in 1/10th the time it takes to paint up a base for nuke strikes.

So in Starcraft 2, I would like to see covert units with MUCH more health, and I would like to see detector scramblers of some kind, although I'm not sure how that would be implemented.

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This was another senseless weakness of the original Starcraft. NO race EVER lacked detectors by the dozens when being played by the computer, and no human being who'd been playing SC for for than 5 minutes would be without them either. And once a covert unit is detected, they have about 50 health unless they're a hero like Zeratul. For example, in 4 years of playing Starcraft, I have successfully completed ONE covert nuke strike because it's so hard to get the Ghosts in undetected to paint targets. I can assemble and execute a 12 tank plant n' pound siege crawl and obliterate the Protoss from one side of the map to the other in 1/10th the time it takes to paint up a base for nuke strikes.

So in Starcraft 2, I would like to see covert units with MUCH more health, and I would like to see detector scramblers of some kind, although I'm not sure how that would be implemented.

No offense. But either your opponents were either really good or you really sucked. I did several nuke strikes when I used to play starcraft before the 21st century (some one stole my CD and haven't bothered going back since :( ). Usually what I do is set up a force to go in and destroy structures/vehicles that were used to detect my ghosts. While the enemy would be fighting my forces that would be slaughtering their cloak detection, my ghosts would sneak in the blind spot, point a nuke and bye bye enemy base. :)

It can be quite difficult at times, I know my ghosts have been detected time to time and killed off. But it is not impossible if you know what to do and when to strike.

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(some one stole my CD and haven't bothered going back since :( )

Just so you're aware, the latest patch to the game allows you to play the games without the CDs. So if you still have it installed, you'll be good to go!

Usually what I do is set up a force to go in and destroy structures/vehicles that were used to detect my ghosts. While the enemy would be fighting my forces that would be slaughtering their cloak detection, my ghosts would sneak in the blind spot, point a nuke and bye bye enemy base. :)

It can be quite difficult at times, I know my ghosts have been detected time to time and killed off. But it is not impossible if you know what to do and when to strike.

The trick is doing it without alerting the enemy to your plans. If you focus too much on the detectors, a good enemy will realize that you've got something you want to bring in undetected, and take steps to prevent their detectors' destruction as well as beef up their defenses in such a way to intercept the cloaked units. So you need to play your hand without showing it. Double-pronged strikes work fairly well in this regard, though other strategies often work better but are harder to execute. You send in one wave from one direction that draws mainly a certain group of enemy units, and then bring in the second wave from a different vector to make a quick strike against the detectors and other targets of opportunity before quickly retreating or joining the first wave in battle. In this way, your enemy is far less likely to realize what was actually your target before you are ready to deploy your cloaked units.

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^Even less complicated than that, you could always use a Ghost to nuke a photon cannon wall etc -- because the nuke range is larger than that of the detection, you could create a hole inside an enemy base through which to strike with more direct means (I'm a Goliath/Tank mix when I go Terran, personally -- sending in 24 Goliaths with 6-8 tanks gives you massive destruction if you can get them inside the base).

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^Even less complicated than that, you could always use a Ghost to nuke a photon cannon wall etc -- because the nuke range is larger than that of the detection, you could create a hole inside an enemy base through which to strike with more direct means (I'm a Goliath/Tank mix when I go Terran, personally -- sending in 24 Goliaths with 6-8 tanks gives you massive destruction if you can get them inside the base).

Effective? Yes. The problem with that approach, however, is that it relies on your opponent making two very big mistakes: not moving his defensive units away from the line (they shouldn't even be there in the first place; keeping them behind the first defenses is better in general), and wasting money on a "wall" of photon cannons (or any other defense). Except in rare circumstances (or very abundant resources), the backbone of a base's defense should lie in units, not static defenses. They are vulnerable to attacks that they cannot defend against (as you pointed out), and are ultimately a big target for your opponent to destroy. It's like putting up a big sign that says "Here's a big pile of my hard-earned resources! Blow it up for me!"

Static defenses have their uses, and if you can reasonably get the extra resources, putting extra defenses up doesn't hurt. But usually the money is better spent on units.

You'd think I'd have the same computer I used in 1998? xD

Hey, it's possible. My parents do (it's been in storage, but it's still around). A computer from that era would probably still be able to play the game, so if you still had it, you'd be all set. :wink:

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Effective?

Static defenses have their uses, and if you can reasonably get the extra resources, putting extra defenses up doesn't hurt. But usually the money is better spent on units.

it's best to use defenses in tandem with protective units...i.e. reavers or lurkers/tanks :D

and as for a nuke strike, just be sure to have obs patrolling the map

and always have a few units ready to counter the ghost.

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I agree with both of you -- static defenses are best placed in the middle of bases as detectors backing

units (a spore tower backed by a few lurkers and hydras makes a better defense than a combo of spore / sunken, for instance).

Back on topic, Raynor's new bio is sweet. I love that they have given him problems -- it makes him much more believable. I can't wait to hear more about the plot!

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  • 1 month later...

The Zerg stuff is all well and good, but look at those new screenshots!! They're worlds better than the old ones - all thanks to colour! Thanks Blizzard, you guys had me worried there ^_^

Desert:

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss72-hires.jpg(NEW) The Terran Battlecruisers and Barracks' have their sexy shine back!!!

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss71-hires.jpg(NEW) The environment here looks simply stunning O_O

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss53-hires.jpg(OLD) It's Warcraft 3 in space!

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss58-hires.jpg(OLD) MY EYEEES!!!

Space Platform:

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss74-hires.jpg (NEW) mmmm, Pylons...

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss68-hires.jpg (NEW)

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss39-hires.jpg (OLD) Blech!

Jungle:

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss73-hires.jpg (NEW) Zealots look pretty sweet now...

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss70-hires.jpg (NEW) ZOMG it's creep! And some interesting looking Zerg units...

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss24-hires.jpg (OLD) RAINBOW ZERGS!!!

And I can't wait to see what they'll do with the Twilight planet:

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss25-hires.jpg (OLD) EXTREME COLOR WARNING, DO NOT OPEN IF YOU HAVE SENSITIVE EYES OR ARE HOMOPHOBIC

So there you have it; anyone who said StarCraft II was NOT too colourful before was plainly wrong :wink:

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  • 1 year later...

Those old screens are better than the current ones in some respects, but take a look at THESE:

http://www.sc2armory.com/media/screenshots/The-Brood-Spawn/305

http://www.sc2armory.com/media/screenshots/Toxic-Skies/307

http://www.sc2armory.com/media/screenshots/Battle-Of-The-Races/302

But personally I like the original StarCraft's art style and unit/building sprites and effects a LOT better than most of the 3D SC2 counterparts. And I'm convinced it's not nostalgia - those old sprites are just that good. YOU may be blown away, Prophet... but meanwhile I'll be petitioning Blizzard and retexturing units and buildings to try and fix all the suck before the next expansion ^_^ When I watch a SC2 video and then go play SC1, I get the "dead" feeling you're talking about because SC2 looks so bad =P

And when I look at that third screenshot or watch any SC2 video, I can't help but fear that SC2 will be VERY visually cluttered, making it hard to play (and watch), especially when there's more than 1 team of the same race. The clarity of SC's graphics are nearly unmatched among non-Blizzard RTS games, and I don't think SC2's graphics are yet clear enough to avoid severe consequences...

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