Poor Rejected Me Needs Help (T_T)

[HoboKa]

My Tyrano Lair song got rejected and it's unclear as to what's wrong. What Liontamer highlighted was "poor sound quality".

I'm not sure what he exactly means by that because I know that I use relatively good samples, so what other reason would he have to say that?

I'll let you guys be the judges...

http://media.putfile.com/Tyrano-Trepidation

for reference here's the MIDI

http://media.putfile.com/cttyrano

[Dafydd]

Well I dunno but I think the synths sound good but rather "generic" - especially the solo intro. There's also hardly any processing going on here. Listen to this song and study how the drums punch through the soundscape. That's the kind of stuff the judges like. Your song sounds like a midi but with better instruments - there's no effects or anything. The drums sound pretty dry.

As for sound quality, listen to places like 2:05-2:10 where the sound clips - you're playing the sounds too loud, and the result is a grainy, crackly effect - the judges hate that. Also, the end of the song suffers from instruments being off tempo and off beat. From 3:13 and on, the pad is dissynchronized from the drums, and then the piano starts getting out of sync too. At 3:23-3:24 the drums are even out of sync with themselves. Sounds like you've got some tempo edits left where they're not supposed to be. From 3:23 and on it sounds like you didn't even listen the song through, you just copied some parts into the end, added a cymbal, and made an MP3 from it. Each of the instruments are playing their own tempo. This sounds very unprofessional and does not impress the judges. I would suggest you listen to this song through a few more times, especially the last minute of it, and think about what can be improved. Remember not to be lazy - every bit of the song needs equal attention.

There are other reasons why I don't think this would pass the judges panel, but if you fix the issues above you should at least be able to reach the panel and get them to vote (though you're likely to get NOed at. When voting they'll hopefully tell you what can be done to improve the mix up to a level where it lives up to OCR standards.

Don't give up!

[Chickenwarlord]

Too much on the echo and reverb. Each new note sounds like it's jutting out at the beginning. The choir is chorused in a way that doesn't really help it sound authentic or pleasing.

The piano is very mechanical sounding. Try messing with velocities to get that sounding more human. And... the download stopped more than halfway in.

This sounds harsh, I know. But take some of these into account. Maybe next time I'll listen to the whole thing and find some good things about the arrangement. Most of what I commented on was sound quality, and I know I didn't make it to the meat of the arrangement.

[Groovemaster303]

Learn from it and move on.

[JJT]

if you're unclear as to why your song was rejected, i'd suggest listening to it all the way through.

your drums are a different tempo then the rest of your song starting at 1:57. if you can't discern why that sounds bad, then remixing isn't for you. i'm just being honest.

in addition to that, your sample quality is poor. not only that, they're not processed well (especially the drums. they're too dry and exposed). if you can't hear a disparity in sound quality between this and current OC ReMixes, then I don't know what to tell you.

[HoboKa]

Oh I've been listening through the whole song a lot of times. Unfortunately I need to work on that professional ear. I never took theory, therefore it's hard to discern if its off beat or off tempo ><. But I will certainly try to fix those things.

[JJT]

Oh I've been listening through the whole song a lot of times. Unfortunately I need to work on that professional ear. I never took theory, therefore it's hard to discern if its off beat or off tempo ><. But I will certainly try to fix those things.

Being able to hear rhythm has nothing to do with music theory. It should be obvious to an untrained ear as well. If you can't hear that it's off, then I'm sorry man. This just isn't for you.

[Dafydd]

Don't ask yourself "is this off tempo or off beat", ask yourself - "does it sound good"?

[HoboKa]

Is this getting there? I tried to reduce the clipping, changed the chorusing for choir, humanized the piano and several other things. Oh and I got rid of the break beat drums at the 2:00 minute area (thereabouts).

http://media.putfile.com/Tyrano-Remix-retry

Being able to hear rhythm has nothing to do with music theory. It should be obvious to an untrained ear as well. If you can't hear that it's off, then I'm sorry man. This just isn't for you.

Would this not sound a hell of a lot more discorded and choppy if I couldn't discern that at all? I'm saying that every one has to start somewhere, not every one can go BANG I'm composer guru over night! Sorry to be snappy, but I'm tired of people telling me that I'm tone deaf or rythm challenged, I've heard positive things about my work, perhaps some of you are just bitter that you can't submit your own works. Maybe I'm just saying this to save face, but I have to try and I have to start somewhere - I'm tired of giving up, so don't tell me how to give up, tell me how to help myself.

[JJT]

Would this not sound a hell of a lot more discorded and choppy if I couldn't discern that at all?

Perhaps, but you already stated that you couldn't tell why it was rejected. That indicates to me, as a judge and an ocremixer, that you don't have a good enough ear to be doing music production.

This does not mean you are a bad person. This does not mean that I think you're uncool. This does not mean that your life is a waste. I'm sure there are things that you're quite good at. This is not one of them. It's okay. I was cut from the soccer team in high school. I wasn't very good. I found other things to do.

If it makes you happy, go ahead and keep making submissions, but I think you'll spare yourself a lot of time and frustration if you find something else to channel your energy into.

Also, bear in mind that my views do not represent that of the judges panel, or ocremix as a whole. This is just me, Jon, telling you what I would tell one of my close friends, because I think you'll be better off in the long run.

Hope you won't hold it against me.

[Fishy]

I'm saying that every one has to start somewhere, not every one can go BANG I'm composer guru over night! Sorry to be snappy, but I'm tired of people telling me that I'm tone deaf or rythm challenged, I've heard positive things about my work, perhaps some of you are just bitter that you can't submit your own works. Maybe I'm just saying this to save face, but I have to try and I have to start somewhere - I'm tired of giving up, so don't tell me how to give up, tell me how to help myself.

If you're so offended by people commenting on your work honestly, thats your own fault for asking.

This isn't about instantly being amazing at music, that would be a stupid reason to criticize people. The issue here is that you say you can't tell whats wrong with your music, and if you can't hear it, then we can't help you. If you'd have come in saying "omg so-and-so's drums sound great, how can I make mine sound like that", then we can help. Take a random OCReMix thats somewhat similar to your aims, listen to it critically, very closely, and compare it to yours. If you can tell us the difference in terms of production, and why you think yours wouldn't be accepted in relation to it, then you're not lost.

Some people just naturally don't have a good ear, regardless of music training. That doesn't mean to say its impossible to make music, it just means it will be much harder for you to improve.

I have friends who told me all my stuff was great ages ago, and I believed them. Looking back, that stuff sucked, it sounded terrible, but they still can't tell too much difference. There's a difference between listening, and listening critically, you just have to learn to do it I guess, and thats not something we can help you to do. Trust me, you get better at it over time, but it can take years for some people, and days for others.

[Zephyr]

You need to work on quite a few things, your drums are almost never on beat with the song (which totally defeats their purpose, and you need to work on your transitions and the song as a whole try listening through your song with a very critical ear, write down anything that might use even the slightest bit of work.

[HoboKa]

What I should have done was take a deep breath, along with a moment to think, so that I could come up with a decent and mature response. I'm sorry JJT and Fishy and who ever else I may have offended. It's always awkward in a forum to express these things =S

I thank you guys for the constructive criticism and I'll try to move on. But I'm a stubborn arse JJT. I'm going to continue to try to remix VG music. I'm gonna compare my work to other remixers, improve upon it and resubmit it (or try to). However, it's a daily challenge to work with the samples I have because I don't have a big budget to afford super good quality samples and other drum synths. Hell all I have for drums is FPC and the free downloads from it like Hipscratch and WhoDat =/.

Again, I apologize for my poor response and I shall try hard to suppress whatever misgivings I feel when I get criticized for my remixes.

[mr_skitch]

You can make ok samples sound great with a little tweaking. What you need to do is go visit webiste like http://www.tweakheadz.com/ and just grab some basics. Obviously you know how to input midi data, so your already ahead of alot of people.

As far as rythm stuff, whatever program your working in you need to have your song lined up with clear indications where beat one is and so forth. I always have things divided up by 1/16th notes which is about as crazy as I want to go. And if your not sure, just start everything on beat 1 to get used to it.

Keep on fighting bro. You've obviously have some talent to write music and know how to tweek stuff to a small degree, so just listen, read about it, and play around with things. Don't let anyone tell you to quit. I was tone deaf as a kid and was rejected from musicals and all sorts of stuff growing up. Now I play lead trumpet at Portland State and have played around the world. Dont take no for an answer.

[Nicole Adams]

Yeah, just keep at it. Do what Fishy says and analyze different styles of music you'd like to work in. Read/watch tutorials, too. In time you will get better.

[Dafydd]

The thing is, everything sounded ok up until when everything started playing off-tempo. If you were able to make what was there up until then, then obviously you should be able to tell what makes the off-tempo part (the ending) different from the on-tempo part (the rest).

Also, as a general rule of thumb - never ever submit something to OCR if you feel like "this part of my song could still be improved" or "I could do this better but I'm too lazy". Do your very best, impress yourself, or don't sumbit the song, because if you can find issues with it, the judges can.

[Eternal Testament]

One of the problems I often encounter when remixing is over-familliarity with the material and becoming complacent with it.

The best way to get a fresh ear on things is to leave the track for a while, don't listen to it for a few days. In the mean time, listen to other stuff. Then, when you come back to it you'll notice any discrepencies in the track.

[Dafydd]

True, but I also do that listening to a song 20 times over. A combination, not a compromise, is best. That is, listen to it 20 times, then listen to other stuff for a while, then come back and listen another 20 times. It'll help, trust me.

[your the man now dog]

keep up man. not every song is destined for posting but that doesn't make it bad. that judge who is posting here doesn't really understand how to give criticism maturely. keep your head up!

[JJT]

that judge who is posting here doesn't really understand how to give criticism maturely.

yeah, those posts were pretty juvenile. must be from inexperience.

[HoboKa]

BTW, that title is wrong, I meant to say JJT isn't really immature... (that'd be like calling me calm and patient, which as you guys have seen I am not )

Any hoo, this thread could have turned out a lot worse. I don't think that JJT needs to be bashed, thanks for the support every one . I'm re-working my drums and I've listened to my song again...again...again and again.

I admit that I knew beforehand that I could have done a better job with this song, before I submitted it. It's just some of the input was a bit harsh to take in, well for me. But it's cool now, I'm willing to take most constructive input without crying like an emo now. Again, thanks for the support and actually *gasp* responding to this thread. I've had many a post that has gone unheeded.

You can make ok samples sound great with a little tweaking. What you need to do is go visit webiste like http://www.tweakheadz.com/ and just grab some basics. Obviously you know how to input midi data, so your already ahead of alot of people.

As far as rythm stuff, whatever program your working in you need to have your song lined up with clear indications where beat one is and so forth. I always have things divided up by 1/16th notes which is about as crazy as I want to go. And if your not sure, just start everything on beat 1 to get used to it.

Keep on fighting bro. You've obviously have some talent to write music and know how to tweek stuff to a small degree, so just listen, read about it, and play around with things. Don't let anyone tell you to quit. I was tone deaf as a kid and was rejected from musicals and all sorts of stuff growing up. Now I play lead trumpet at Portland State and have played around the world. Dont take no for an answer.

Actually Mr Skitch...I don't do that with MIDI's I use premade synths and samples. In fact I couldn't create my own MIDI based synth if I tried atm.

BTW, how do I ensure that my song will remain in 1/16th, without different sounds/instruments/samples on 1/4, 1/90000 or whatever? I use FL so..

And I found the tweakheadz.com site kind of well...huge. I don't know where to start on that site =S

I know this is a lot of questions to ask, but you would do this misguided one a huge favor if you could answer his silly questions =/

To avoid Triple Posting, I'm putting my new and hopefully improved drum sample here. I tried to synchronize it to the rhythm of the piano...is this a better idea?

http://media.putfile.com/Tyrano-Drum-Sample

[Fishy]

Well, the kick is ok, its loud enough and bassy enough. The velocities on it are a little weird, they seem to get quieter as it goes on.

The snare drum isn't good, its got no depth, no power. This is partly due to the sample, but that doesn't mean its hopeless. You should try playing around with EQ and get it sounding as fat as the kick. Concentrate mostly on the middle and higher frequencies until you start hearing a change.

The high hats are poorly written. You've got to keep them playing all through the bar, or not have them at all. You'll never hear a drummer play that sparsly. Try adding 8 hits every bar, and make sure the offbeat hits are much lower in velocity, which will sound much more natural.

Also, try to vary up the patterns, write 3 or 4 variations for each section, and some cool fills like the one you have work wonders for your drum part. Boring drums are often a reason for rejection, though JJT might correct me on that .

[HoboKa]

Umm it may not be too wise for me to keep on changing up the drums for this part 3-4 times, because its not long enough and it might sound like the drummer has A.D.H.D. or something - correct me if I'm wrong. I was thinking 2 differences.

And there's a few technical words that I don't understand (please excuse my newbiness): EQ, frequency and offbeat.

Yes I know you're going to reply something like..."Dude in that case, you've got a loooong road ahead of you then." Just try to spare me that crushing feeling

[OceansAndrew]

He didn't mean you need to have that many variations for the sample, he meant you'll need at least that many throughout the entire piece.

Add hihat hits on 1 and 2 and that part will sound more natural.

here is your rhythm:

1 2 3 4

Offbeat is like:

1 and 2 and 3 and 4

it's the ands

[Fishy]

Umm it may not be too wise for me to keep on changing up the drums for this part 3-4 times, because its not long enough and it might sound like the drummer has A.D.H.D. or something - correct me if I'm wrong. I was thinking 2 differences.

And there's a few technical words that I don't understand (please excuse my newbiness): EQ, frequency and offbeat.

Yes I know you're going to reply something like..."Dude in that case, you've got a loooong road ahead of you then." Just try to spare me that crushing feeling

Nah I won't, i you don't know what a word means then you don't know. Go look them up, cause I can't explain it very easily.