Gario

Thanks for the input, all... Gah, damn you, Reason 3.0!!! I knew the tempo can be fudged, but, like you said, fishy, it's a bitch to edit it... same thing can be said for the meter changes. Alas, I just wish I still had my good ol' Magix studio for things like that... *sniff* Thanks.

Hey, everybody! A while back, I've made a change from writing primarily in MIDI to working in Reason and other sampling programs. Obviously, the sound is better, but I absolutely cannot figure out how to tempo change in the middle of a song, or even change the meters mid-song. The help file says nothing about it in Reason. Those are two tools that I used ALOT when I wrote for midi, so I'm at a loss of how to do it (if it's even possible) on Reason. Anybody know how to do those things? BTW - I lost my midi making programs and haven't been able to find anything like it since, so I can't import midi's onto Reason to achieve the affect. Help is appreciated, thanks!

Sound's like Lamb of God meets Xenogears to me (not the new stuff... more like the Ruin album, which was better). That's pretty bad ass. Good use of the sources; for some reason, I didn't ever think of this song being 'metal'd out'. You've converted me there!

Woo Hoo! I didn't know if I was gonna enter, but now that I've got something sweet moving along, it looks like I'm gonna have to! Yay, ORC115 is moving foward!

Mazedude is here, as usual, to show all of us what this site is really for, givin' respect to all video game music and any genre. Always loved his stuff because of that. This is no exception, showing an amount of talent most people cannot imagine. I wouldn't be suprised if his next mix was 'Quest 64 - Spirit in da Hood' gangsta rap mix and created another wonderful masterpiece out of it (Anybody else, however... please stay away from that ). Great stuff.

Very interesting style; you don't hear it very often on here (Cream/Led here, while other songs of yours are like 'Firebird' from the Mahivishnue Orchestra'... if I spelled that right). Kudos to that. I agree with Chicken on the panning. Too much for both sides. Center them a bit. I don't agree with the mids quite as much, as the muddiness gives it a more authentic flavor, making it feel more like an older 70's style hard rock song. However, I believe that the J's will agree with Chicken, so if your shooting for OC, then tweak them a bit. The ending... finish this please, I want to hear more (but you know that already ) Otherwise, very nice. We need some stuff like this on OC; I hope to see it finished and posted.

1:49 - 2:12 had a TERRIBLE synth goin' on there. Please remove or change it so it works harmonically, at least... Sorry, had to get that out. Anyhoo, it's alright, in general. I have to agree with Splinter here, the instrument at 0:52 just doesn't cut it. It needs reverb, EQ, or something to make it sound like a trumpet there (perhaps better samples?). The guitar didn't work for similar reasons. Try tweeking the modulation or something to make it sound more human. Where's the other half of the song? You really need to include the other half of the source - it is lacking without it. It'll help with the general repetitiveness of the piece in general. Besides, everyone knows it's the best part . Personally, I like the sort of chiptun-ish parts of it, but I'm not sure the J's will without really bringing the other instruments in immediately. Otherwise, the listener will get lost 2:23 - 2:37, thinking the song ends before they should. Without a better way of saying it, the EQ is muddy, but I think you knew that, so that's that on that. As I said before, in general, it's not bad, but it certainly not OC material, either. It'll take alot of work on your end to get it up to speed, so if it's worth it, good luck!

Well, thank you, Rayza... if you want to be helpful next time, please tell the person why rather than what. I'd like to change it, if needed, but I can't if you don't tell me why.

Well, here it is. I can't see much more that I can do with it, so I'm gonna submit this version. http://www.box.net/shared/q46dzn8xnc Please let me know if there is anything obviously wrong with it. I'll keep a eye on here before I submit it. (And Rozovian, I now made the last notes strike softer... I changed my mind on the whole thing )

Sorry to hear about the corrupted file... It happens to the best of us. How depressing. I'm sure you can pull through with your other songs, though. It's just a painful lesson in backing files up, right? Still have the file to remember what it was *wipes away a tear*.

Oi! It hurts seeing this forum jostled like this... Most people believe that keys have 'emotion' because of the tuning practices of western musical history. From Pythagorian tuning (pure 5ths, non-pure octaves) to Just tuning (5ths slightly off, octaves pure), to Mean tuning (3rds & 6ths approximately perfect, 8ths perfect), musicians and mathematicians were tinkering with the exact sounds of the half and whole steps. Finally, WELL TEMPERED tuning (not equal tempered) took over around the time of Bach, which was standard until roughly 1850. In that tuning system, every different key could be played, but each really did have a different sound or emotion, as each key had a variety of differently tuned half and whole steps. Today, this is not true, so most keys are in fact one and the same... unless you have perfect pitch, of course And, yes I know the quote was Spinal Tap, but some other people seemed confused on this issue, so I hope this helps clear it up a bit. Now... as for the subject at hand, why do you really want to use 'chords' for you atmospheric music? In your case, it may help you to not think of your music in terms of chords; otherwise, it may be a little clunky for the mood. Try, instead, to think of the music as overlapping melodies. Observe the intervals between the notes and figure out which sounds you enjoy the best (for each particular song) and exploit them. (If you want to hear my favorite 'progression', though, it's one from a Brahm's Aria (I forget the name right now)... cm - BM 6-3 - bm - BbM 6-3... etc. )

Yup, congrats to Sir Nuts. Well, give out something delicious for the ORC115, ok? I'll need something to spark off my new year with

Woa! 'Just saw that you got this accepted on Remix:ThaSauce. Great! now people can hear this piece of awesome chiptune goodness! Actually, I never heard of Remix:ThaSauce before... Well, time to eat up the rest of my weekend Dl-ing music from there...

Here's another WIP... I think it's almost done. http://www.box.net/shared/mmke2clspm I hope no one thinks I'm attacking my criticism's, on the contrary; I am reading every one of them and explaining myself if I seem to ignore them in my mix. Rozovian, I know your gonna go straight to the last note's to see if I fixed the clicks, only to find they're still there. I may be stubborn on this, but I like the clicks on the last two notes. I fixed all of the other clicks, adjusting the attack on them where I saw fit, but I left the end clicks due to their imperfect quality. I just hope the J's aren't too unhappy about them...The source starts from 0:33 - 1:03 in a rather obvious fashion. Harmonically, the source is there from 1:03 - 1:20, and the triangle from the source is present from 1:20 - 1:33, which is when the source melody begins. I hope this will be enough for the J's when armageddon begins for my piece . Hopefully I fixed some of the balancing in the drums and cleaned them up, although I didn't touch the bass volumes. The 'off-key' action... I may have added a few 'off-key' things in this from the last WIP, actually... lol... but I'll look at them and check to see if they should be changed. I'm guessing that your are talking about moments such as 2:36 with the high rhythm pad. Sticking to harmonic structure feels 'meh' to my ears at times; counterpoint leads to these strange moments, oddly enough. Listen to some Eric Whitacre (he posts some of his music on Myspace); contrapuntally, his music works, even though harmonically it doesn't make sense. It has affected the way I write my music, as well... damn influences... Dafydd, glad you like the 90's-trance sound to this. I've tried slowing this down, but then it loses some of it's edge. I'm looking for a bit more 'punch' behind it, so I'm sticking with the 160. If you want to hear another tempo, message the rate and I can post it for you to hear. As for the drums, I don't think I hear what your hearing. Give me an example of where it's messy and I'll try to clean it up. I think I fixed all of the clicking in the lead melody (with one exception, of course) and the portomento in the melody and one of the pads. Most of the ports and clicks are now there because I like the sound, not because I'm lazy . I'm gonna mess around with the EQ and the Panning some more before I call it 'done'. Other than the things I said above, I've added and cut some material in order to clean up the phrases and add variety to some of the repetitions. I also turned down the main level, fixing some of the clipping that crimped the heavier sections. Of course, the suggestions are great; keep them coming. I'll get this done if it kills me .

Well, Rozovian, I like it. Good interpretation, yet the source is easy to hear, as well. I can't say much about the mix that will help, as your better at mixing than I, but I think it sounds great. However, some of the counterpoint within the harmonies sounds... off. In music like this, good counterpoint is very helpful. Moving from a 5th interval to another 5th interval hurts the music. In the melody, there is only one example of this (1:15 - 1:17), but that short span makes me cringe. If you need to double, please do it at the 3rd or 6th, or counter the melody instead. The pad in the harmonies is the general culprit of parallel 5th's. I suspect that it is a part of the synth, itself. If it is, change the settings so the pad doesn't automatically play a fifth above (or below) the line, then re-insert the 5th's and other intervals where you feel is needed. If you wrote the 5th's yourself, then change the motion from one 5th to another into similar, oblique or counter motion, or at least not from one 5th to another. Perhaps this sounds personal, but there are very important structural reasons that I say this. In the melody, the fifth implies different chords than those that are playing, which messes up my hearing of the song (in a bad way). In the harmony, 5th's sound clunky, as they are the most stable interval (next to the 8th). It may sound 'Okay' as is, but there is almost always something else that sounds much, much better, and will help move the music along at the same time. As I said above, though, I dig this. Finish it and submit it. MMX doesn't get enough love here (relative to how badass the soundtrack is, of course). Don't leave the penguin hangin' for much longer

Thanks for the crit's, all! I've been a little distracted lately, but still managed to get out the 2nd WIP. Hopefully fixed some reverb and volume problems, definitely fixed the clicking on the synth at the end, and got it under 6mgs (Funny, I always think it's 8mgs, even though everyone tells me 6... stupid short-term memory loss). I played with the panning, but I think it needs a little more still. I still don't like my repetitions, but that's because I didn't touch them yet. Rozovian, it's interesting you mention the late entrance of the main tune. I actually had it incorporated earlier in older WIP's (not posted, BTW), but I purposely took them out. Waiting for so long, I feel, gives this a little more flavor and distinction. Even better, since most of you know the source, it keeps the listeners anticipating it, so when it comes it relieves tension that's been building up to that point. If that sounds like bull... well, listen to it with that in mind, and tell me if you agree or not . Comments are still desired; help me out! http://www.box.net/shared/b10utik4xr

Wow, that was pretty damn awesome! I still need to get my Fami-skilz up to at least this level before I can leave this world in peace. However, I agree with Rozovian that this is not OC material. MrSneak, listen to Mazedude's Cyborg-blobby again. Can you imagine that playing out of NES hardware? Bad-ass as that would be (as that's one of my OC favorites), no, the NES couldn't support it. Why? Mazedude isn't strictly using chiptunes. He's EQing, he's mixing multiple instruments and synths, he's working in at least 44hz, etc. Just because a song uses chiptunes doesn't mean it's strictly a chiptune song. I'm sure OC won't accept pure Chiptune, but it may accept variations of them. If you used this as the intro to a larger remix of this music... well, I can imagine that already, and that could potentially be very awesome. Listen to http://djpretzel.web.aplus.net/songs/Final_Fantasy_7_Black_Wing_Metamorphosis_OC_ReMix.mp3 for an example of this; it's very effective. Otherwise, if this is what you want, take a look at OLRemix.org. It's not a site for 'bad' mixes; on the contrary, I love some of the things that come out of there. It is a site for mixes that create awesome music using strange and interesting means. As is, your chiptune is perfect for the site, and I'd encourage posting it there. By the way, I'm keeping this for my own library. It's pure awesome.

The mixing, as Rozovian has said before, is very thin (especially for this tempo). We really need some mids in the EQ, as well as more sound to fill the space. If this song was faster, you could get away with the thinner sound, as collectively it would fill itself out in the end, but even then, you'd need to fill out the sound at least a little bit (especially in the parts with the melody). Again, this is a variation of the last critique, but at this slow tempo, the sound really doesn't work. Play with the tempos a little bit (it sounds like 112.00 right now - try something like 144.00 - 160.00; if it doesn't work, then just change it back). Although the texture does change periodically, it changes into two or three textures that just alternate. Even if the variations are subtle, varying each texture from each other similar texture will make a huge difference. It doesn't sound like the volume of any individual sequence ever varies; only the amount of sequences that are playing at the same time and the EQ's do. Although not truely critical, it can add the variety needed in some of the parts. A final note - that little counter-melody that comes in at 0:34 - 0:35 (as well as in other places) bugs the HELL out of me. It's just too... midi. Even then, there is no variety in volume or EQ or... anything for it to have any flavor at all. It's just... there. Please do something to it - even getting rid of it completely will improve it. As practice for future pieces, though, good job. I hope to hear more from you.

Well, what can I say? Great mix. The style is relatively common on OC, but there's a good reason for that, too. That's the only real critique I have, and it's not a bad thing, IMO. It's very well put together. Good luck with the judges!

Ah, here's another by you. Well, I know the source tune fine but I'd still recommend posting it, anyhow - it's good to be able to compare the source and the mix at the same time. Well, it's pretty good, right now, although it needs to be tightened up before it can be called 'done'. Mainly, the reverb that you add to it, while necessary, also throws the beat off for the different instruments. Don't take away the reverb, of course, just adjust the sequences so the effect is less noticeable. As for the change at 2:00, personally, I kind of like it, except I expect the chords to resolve differently. It needs the change, and it sounds interesting, but the entire progression altogether is a little bit odd from 2:00 - 2:10, in particular from the first chord to the second. 2:11 - 2:22 is the same.The drums are neat, although sometimes they sound unintentionally off. I'd tweak those. The entire mix as a whole isn't bad at all, really. It's quite listenable. Unfortunately, as a whole it sticks a little close to the source, and the texture is pretty static. Have some fun with what you have here - variety is the spice of life

Ah, I didn't know that... Shame it was taken down ( ' ~ ' ) Well, it isn't up there anymore, sadly... Just doin' my part for the OC. Any suggestions?

MM3 fans, unite! There has been a terrible sin committed upon the MM3 soundtrack on OC! There hasn't been a single submission of the 'Sparkman' song that has been accepted on this site in the near decade that the site has been in existence. We must not stand for this! I'm trying to do my part and write something that doesn't sound like trash, but I need your help. For the most part, the song is complete. I need to tweak some volumes throughout the some, play with the panning and fill in some repetitions so they aren't so... repetitious. However, I need some fresh ears to critique this, as well, as I really want to fill the void in MM3 called 'Sparkman'. Any thoughts? http://www.box.net/shared/7bgzxrm0p7 (Final Version) I'm sure I don't need this, but here's the source tune, anyway. http://www.box.net/shared/4xhjvz2tum Edit: Here are the other versions, for your listening pleasure... http://www.box.net/shared/n2j0zz6yks (WIP1) http://www.box.net/shared/b10utik4xr (WIP2) http://www.box.net/shared/mmke2clspm (WIP3) http://www.box.net/shared/q46dzn8xnc (WIP4, aka v1.0) http://www.box.net/shared/rqrgluikb4 (v1.4) http://www.box.net/shared/ypm4og6258 (v1.5) http://www.box.net/shared/8f57q3ixy7 (v1.9) http://www.box.net/shared/nv7dg2vls3 (v2.0) http://www.box.net/shared/y902dvye1u (v3.3) http://www.box.net/shared/ezoxxemc2u (v3.4) http://www.box.net/shared/pertqk19y9 (v3.9) I've also noticed how much of an ass that I sound like up there... After 3 months, I finally notice. When I'm talking about 'complete trash' I'm referring to an old mix that I did of this source that sucked pretty bad, not to anyone who's posted WIPs of this before (as I've only heard one other, and it wasn't bad at all). I hope this didn't offend too much, there.

No problem, really. I just tend to be on the wordy side with my comments. Well, he DID say on Rozovan's submission that he wanted more people commenting, so, ya, he did, sort of

I see you haven't got more than one or two people responding, and the DJ Prez himself is asking for more people to comment, so let me help you out a little bit. I'm gonna be brutally honest here, as you want to be accepted on OC. I like the piece a lot for the first thirty seconds, then... well, it was hard to hear the rest of it through. Excluding the mixing quality (which is pretty muddy in general), the problems were of a compositional nature. These are all suggestions, but I hope they will help you with this piece. 0:00 - 0:32 sounds very awesome. It sets you up for a chill orchestral groove of the Virage fight. No comments. 0:33 - 1:08 ... it's starting to hurt my ears a little. The organ is most noticeably grating here. Moving down in fifths so prominently is something that only guitars can get away with (and even then, only in metal or rock & roll). They do nothing for the song except make it feel clunky. Also, they're too loud, dominating the rest of the little things your doing there. If you need something there, please, PLEASE move in 3rds or 6ths. Octaves sound too open, and won't add anything aesthetically pleasing here either. There is a choir here, too, but because he simply doubles what all of the other instruments are doing here, it doesn't help the texture at all; if you want to keep it, have it at least sing against the descending line, not with it. The drums are a little stale, but not too bad, either. Perhaps just a little variance to the beat will help. 1:09 - 1:35 I like the gong breaking the two sections apart. Very effective. 1:11 - 1:24 also sounds good, although the orchestra hits are getting old, now. I'd change the instrument, or drop it completely, leaving only the bells behind. The melody doesn't stick out well, either. I think just tuning the volume will fix that. The choral counter-melody... well, I'm lovin' it. Don't touch it. From 1:25 - 1:35, the string texture (not the melody) just sounds off. I know you probably wanted it to change a little, as it's been repeating for some time now, but it hurts more than it helps. Also, the counter-melody choir you have is not 'countering' the melody anymore. It merged with it. That wasn't very nice; I liked it when it was against the melody much better. 1:36 - 2:32 Two repetitions of this next part sounds alright; four repetitions is painful to sit through. I'd personally cut out 2:09 - 2:32 entirely, for the sake of temporal space. 1:36 - 1:45 doesn't fit. I understand it's a variation of the whole tone material from the song, but it doesn't work as it is. On the other hand, you do need something there to break 1:09 - 1:35 from 1:45 - 2:09, so you can't just delete it, either. Perhaps making it a little closer to the source will save it, but I can't tell from here. Oh, and the orchestra hits still sound bad here, but if they are cut from the earlier section they might create a better contrast when inserted in this section again. Cutting the bells and replacing them with the orchestra hits might work very well in this context. The drums sound good here, by the way . 2:33 - 3:02 It sounds ok here, but if you want on OC, 'ok' won't cut it. To make it sounds 'good' or 'great' your gonna want to cut some material here. I'd play around with the idea of cutting a lot of your instruments out and cutting the hard beat from the drums from 2:33 - 2:50. I'm thinking real light, here; only plucked bass and hats from the drums. Having all of the instruments explode in 2:51 - 3:02 (drums pick up, all of the instruments you have now suddenly 'appear' out of nowhere) will not only draw attention to the music, it will have the listener eager to hear more. Toy with the idea a bit and see if you want that. 3:03 - 3:20 It sounds too much like the last section to distinguish itself from it. Bring the melody out a lot more, however you can. It is drown in the texture. Varying the texture just a bit might also help distinguish the section. 3:21 - 4:08 Personally, I like the electronica switch here, but you include some of your orchestra hits here, as well. In this context, I think just getting rid of the orchestra hits altogether will clean up this section considerably. From 3:21 - 3:44 the music is good, but the listener expects a repetition that really beefs up the music afterwards. 3:45 - 4:08 you vary the melody a bit, but its not enough. This feels like it should be the climax; changing the melody a bit doesn't cut it. Beef the texture up, add to the drums, EXPLODE on the audience here! 4:09 - 4:21 This is wimpy. It sounds empty and incomplete. Of course, you said it isn't finished, so hurry up and finish it! Oddly enough, this particular game has an ending to each of it's fights, rather than use a generic 'Victory' theme. Perhaps incorporating it into the end will help you come up with something satisfying. Really, though, psychologically speaking, people remember the beginning and end of a song the best. The beginning is very well executed, so fix the end and people will look back at it saying 'Wow, that was awesome!' rather than 'It started well, and ended in suxoors.'. It is essential. For the mixing, in general everything was at the same volume too often, and everything encompased the same musical space (from around Bb3 - Bb5). If you want on OC, your gonna need to work at polishing your music better. As I've said, there are things in this mix that I really like, so don't lose hope. It takes patience and hard work to pull out great music, but it's worth it at the end. (BTW - I was thinking about doing this piece myself, good choice in music selection) (Also, this must be the single longest comment EVER!!! :<HahaAhAhahAHaHah!!!1!)

I understand you haven't applied any effects or EQ to the mix yet, so I guess I can't comment on that (for now ). However, the beginning orchestration sounds... incomplete. If your gonna orchestrate something, realize that there is a lot to work with, not just a cello, two violins and a trumpet. It sounds very empty right now. You need more than that in order to fill 50s of musical space. The texture doesn't change, which leads some listeners to believe that it lasts too long. Add to the texture, add some instruments, add something that will keep our interest for the entire 50 seconds. Also, on the side; the parallel octaves (well, similar octaves, but they sound parallel here) within the strings sound terrible in this context. They really make the strings sound more like a single instrument, which is the last thing you want for this intro. Get rid of 'em. After the intro, the music picks up nicely. It's hard to pick up the melody out from the guitar, as they are playing in the same range. Either double the trumpet with something or take it out of that range. Otherwise, I absolutely love the original song (brings back good ol' memories). I want to here a great remix out of this, and it looks as if this could go somewhere if you work at it. Keep it up!