DragonFireKai

You can endevour, but you cannot guarantee. These are situations that need to be accounted for, because I have a feeling that you might want to do other things with your life, rather than simply babysit the site for all eternity. As you delegate more and more power to other individuals within the community, your ability to carry through with you endevour becomes more and more limited, and the site's policies need to be able to account for that. These policies are going to become SOP, something that affects all people participating in the site, and by your own wording, permanently. If there are sections of it that depend completely on the assumption of the good intentions of the man in charge, then we're at the whims of the man in charge, for good or ill. I understand a situation like that. One solution would be to create two distinct policies, one that allows for removal from the site proper, and all future physical releases, and another which explains that any physical releases given away at conventions or radio shows or whatever cannot be withdrawn, not as a matter of refusal, but simply as a matter of the impossibility of the logistics. Another would be to set up a listing of situations that you would release the music in, like radio, podcast, at conventions, so on and so forth, and then have the remixer tell you if he has any objections to any of the situations during the submissions process, so that you have prior consent that doesn't require hunting down remixers each time you want to release something.

But that's the thing, you don't gain professionalism, you gain possesion. Professionalism cannot be secured by any legal contract, it's a manner of behavior. When JDHarding had his spat and bailed, it was very unprofessional. Do you really think this clause would have made him act in a more professional manner? No. But he took his mixes and left. I think that by keeping the mixes, it forces a link to remain between the remixer and the site, and just drags it out farther. Case in point, Protricity. Very unprofessional in his actions, and he became a reccuring problem that lasted for over a year. The analogy I think of is kids playing catch. Kid gets pissy, takes his ball, and goes home. It's petty, but it's his right, and it'll end there. If the other kids decide to keep his ball, then things get much uglier, the kid might start a fight, or get higher powers involved. All for another half hour of playing catch? Is it worth it? You want to treat OCR like a physical album, but it's not. It's not even close. It's constantly evolving and changing. A physical album is a one and done affair, it gets released, then it does not change after that. OCR, on the other hand, is a constant work in process, it's constantly changing. It's a project that never gets finalized. I'm going to go back to Bound Together here, and I don't mean it as a personal attack, I'm just trying to convey my mode of thought here to you, and I think that going over the motivations of a similar situation might help me figure out where you're getting this from. When you bailed on BT, it was because something changed. On this occasion, it was because Virt was unveiled as part of the lineup, and for whatever reason, you didn't want your work in the same lineup as his. I see this as the same situation, the community and lineup here at OCR is constantly changing. If something changes, and it rubs a remixer the wrong way, they'll find themselves in a situation very similar to how you did on Bound Together. You'll find yourself in the same situation as Joe Cam was in. You'll have someone who doesn't like a change you allowed to take place, and wants out. I personally, am a firm believer of the right to exit, the right to take your ball and go home, if you want to. I don't believe that the motivations that drive you to exit are important, it's nice to explain them to the people who will have to deal with it, but in the end, you can go. On the other hand, I do not believe that there is a right to enter, or re-enter. I look at OCR as a club, and DJP and the Judges panel are the owners. As the controller of this fine establishment, you can allow people in, or bar them from entering, you can kick them out once they're in, however, you can't keep them there against their will. That's just my thoughts on this.

Argh, just got back from drill. Anyhow, I think the new wording of the draft is more sound on a legal basis, but it still seems unfair to me. I just think that creative control of the work should remain with the person who made it. I understand asking for a cool down period, or barring further submissions as a for of "look before you leap", but I think that people should be allowed to control who and what gets to display their Work, especially when they're doing it for free. And here's the one thing I don't understand yet. What does this site gain from siezing control of the mixes? DJP has already stated that he doesn't respect the reasons for asking for a remix to be removed, but I don't think that the motives behind the request should really come into the picture. From where I stand, asking for your mix to be removed from OCR is no different than, say, pulling your mix from a project album. People may not like it, you might be doing for spiteful reasons, like not wanting to associate with someone who's working on the project, but in the end, it's the same thing, and I think it should be your right to do so. I just don't understand why rejecting removal requests help the site.

That's good. There seem to be many remixers with reservations about that particular portion of the content policy draft. While the final say does remain with DJP on this, I do think that there's been enough questions raised about that issue for alternatives to such an invasive policy should be looked into. It's human nature. But keep in mind, DJP and the mod/judge clique tend to be on the fairly reasonable side of things, as long as you remain civil with them. It's obvious that you're passionate about your Works, and that's a good thing, but it's important to stop and take stock with what's really being said before taking such an aggressive stance. Things aren't set in stone yet, they can be changed.

I understand completely. I think that setting down the policy in writing is an important step for OCR. I was simply saying that I understand how some of the Remixers who have been here for longer than I have who might have some reservations about any changes that they might see as disrupting the way things have been run for years. Resistance to change is natural. Think of it as inertia of experience.

There's the potential for a mistranslation. Don't forget, a lot of the posters here are running the site through babelfish, or other translation software. Furthermore, a lot of the fears this policy is inspiring are precisely for the reason you said. It's being written down, etched in stone, carved in bronze, and any other metaphor for permanence you can think of. Once this is finalized, it's how it is going to be, and that scares some people.

It's not set in stone yet. As the policy currently stands, you can include Fire Cross on your CD, you just won't be able to title it as Fire Cross OcRemix. But this is why it's still a draft. What exactly do you want in the policy to assuage your fears? If it's a fairly reasonable request, it'll probably be implemented. A policy needs to be implemented at some point to aid the growth of OCR. If you could give me a direct quote of the segment of the draft that's causing you uneasiness, I'd be happy to help you come up with a draft to present to the staff that you find more acceptable. If you want your music to be exposed anywhere, you'll need to submit to policies of some sort. When you submitted it to OCR, you already accepted certain policies that where in place at the time. Such as a potential review by the judges panel, and that it could be pulled in a future lockdown. Those were policies that you accepted, weather you knew it or not. But here, you have an opportunity to make your concerns heard before the new policy goes into effect. You're a valued member of this community, and your input is wanted.

The goal here is to set up concrete policy, as opposed to making it up as you go along, or these "Unwritten Rules" that Arek refers to. The other bonus the community gets out of this is a well structured policy that can set the stage for a potential change of command when DJP decides he has better things to do than babysit the site. Think about what would happen if DJP decided to leave OCR, there's enough of how OCR works that he handles personally, that even if someone tried to pick up the torch, we'd at best get an OCR that's radically different than what we all know and love, at worst, OCR dissapears into the ether. By establishing a series of publicly known, concrete policies governing OCR, it creates the possibilty for a smooth change of leadership that could allow OCR to persist long after DJP's bones have turned to dust. And it's better we have the complications now, while it's just a draft, then later, when it's a legally binding document. It'd be a real shame for this to get rushed through, and then have an incident occur and find out that the content policy is in violation of intellectual property laws. A pint of sweat here will save a gallon of blood when it counts. Yes, there does, especially if removal requests are as prevalent as Liontamer would have us believe. By formalizing a policy beforehand, it prevents DJP and the panel as being painted as a megalomaniacal oligarchy that rules with an iron first that crushes prospective remixer's dreams. which is exactly why it is needed.

I gotta agree with DJP as far as the filenames go. The artist's name is embedded in the tagging, so the filenames themselves really don't need to be changed. Plus, updating all the filenames, at all the mirrors, would be a pain in the ass. However, for accrediting a mix on another site, or Podcast, or college radio type deal, I don't think it's asking to much to have them cite both the OCR URL and the artist's name. I don't think the argument that some artists, (MCVAFFE!) change their name (constantly) holds too much water here. I mean, even aspects of the site itself still reference remixers by their old names, like this writeup of a lovely final fantasy remix by QuasiKaotic. However, the important aspects, the ID3 tagging, and the citation of the mix in the search engine, are all kept up to date. If a DJ cites that mix to QuasiKaotic, because he read the writeup, and ignored all the other fields that clearly say McVaffe, then maybe he shouldn't be a DJ. On a somewhat related note, DJP, in my itunes library, I add a few tags to the OCR remixes, mainly I add the OCR Logo as Album art, so it looks all spruced up, like my other songs, add the lyric info on the vocal mixes, and add comments to each song based on my impressions as I listen to them. Do I have to delete all that? Cause I really don't want to.

Happy Birthday!

To some people it's about other things too. People here have used OCR as a staging area for launching commercial music albums, some of them original content, some have been remixes, a few, as Compyfox pointed out, were remastered mixes that were earlier posted on OCR. These are people's personal hopes and ambitions that OCR is now instituting policy upon, and I would like to see it done in as fair a manner as possible. You said you didn't understand why people were bringing up all these "What If" scenarios, but most of the scenarios that were presented were fairly straightforward situations that either have specific examples, or happen on a regular basis in day to day interactions. A lot of them were simple misunderstandings, but some problems, like those that Project Majestic poses, still have some aspect that haven't been fully laid out. The assumption that everyone here is doing what they're doing simply out the of the desire for the greater glorification of Nobuo Uematsu is a dangerous one, because the closer and closer this community gets to the mainstream, the more exploitable it is as a means of making a profit. Human nature, when dealing with a situation where one can make a profit, acts entirely different then it does when it's a hobby. OCR is heading to the mainstream, and these problems are best addressed before they become significant. Through interaction and lurking, during several of the upheavals this community has gone through, I've come to the conclusion that, out of the thousands of members of this site, there's maybe 100 who can deal with such a discussion in a mature manner in the face of all the other irrational people here. Of those, only about 1/4 of them actually care enough to participate in discussions about those changes. Everyone else will either make a valid point in all caps, and piss everyone off, or make some snide remark that contributes nothing to the discusion, save more flames. The "Head for the Hills" group, is that group of everyone else. What's that old saying about the rarity of common sense?

Well, it's the fact that the site is entering a transitional period. It's going from just another quirky website, to a legitimate organization. Things like this draft are going to go from vauge guidelines, to legally binding documents. Once discussions close on this draft, for all we know, it will be set in stone. So it's in the best interests of all involved, but especially remixers such as yourself, to foresee and account for any potential problems now, while this policy is still in it's formative stages, then when it's a legally binding policy that you can't really fight. I believe this is DJP's reasoning for even making this policy available to be reviewed. It allows people to prepare themselves for this change. Because in the end, a lot of people fear the fact that it's changing more than the change itself.

Wow, Compy just took my sticking point and ran with it. Here's my two cents, I think that this could be solved by having OCR retain all rights to the mixes, save redistribution for profit. This wouldn't sit to well with some of the remixers, but I think that it would fly on a legal level. I don't think that's exactly fair though. I have no problem with the Grudge Clause of the previous version, I just think that to be fair, the remixer should have the right to control where their work is posted, especially when they're doing it for free. On that note, have you considered having AD take a look at this? Because he is, you know, a lawyer. It might not be his specialty, but he might be able to help here.

Happy Birthday!

five minutes, EC, Five minutes.

People, it's just music. It's not changing the world, don't treat it like it is.

Well, if it's just between the three, My vote goes for VII, can't go wrong with VII. I would heartily suggest several non-FF games to try though. For the PS1, Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Breath of Fire 3 & 4, for the SNES, Lufia 1 and 2, Illusion of Gaia, and Breath of Fire 1 & 2.

"Unless otherwise stated, ownership of all works submitted to OverClocked ReMix is retained by the submitting artist." "Once a work is submitted and accepted, OverClocked ReMix reserves the right to reject removal requests on the part of the submitting artist" Hmmmm... I'm interested as to how these two sections will mix on a legal level. If the submitting atist retains all ownership rights, then wouldn't they have final legal say in weather or not it can be displayed on OCR? The rest of it looks fine.

Mario Bros. theme, Vampire killer, and Terra are all good examples. A few other real prominent ones that most people will recognize are Nobuo's Immortal Arpeggio, Schala's Theme, the Theme to MGS, Ice Cap, and Lava Reef.

Finally came in the mail today. Honestly, I can't believe people got theirs before me, in the amount of time it took for the CD to get here, I could've walked to Portland and picked it up. To be honest, the shipping time wasn't too bad, but I can't understand why people in Texas got it before someone who lives an hours drive away. Oh well. On to the "alblum". It's groin-grabbingly great, maybe that should be loin-quivering... Anyways, it's phenominal. I especially like "Breathing You In" it has amazing production value, and the vocals are beautiful, just as you'd expect from Pixietricks. The song on a whole seems very ESCM-esque.

Exactly, you'd fit right in. Join up, IoG!

Yo! I just set up a corp. Search for OCRemix under Corps in People and Places. All are welcome.

Dude, Where's my postcount?

Happy Birthday!

So Aya kills herself in this one?