Guitar Hero vs. Actual Musical Skills

[benprunty]

Hey, everyone. I just finished writing a blog on how Guitar Hero skills relate to actual musical skills. You can read it at

http://makeshiftmusician.com/

For the record, I don't think that Guitar Hero skills necessarily translate to real musicianship. But I did find some interesting things in my research. What do you guys think?

I've also written other articles that I think you guys would like. I written stuff on building a simple computer studio, gaining the confidence to compose music, writing efficiently and how microphones work.

I love feedback and I would love to hear it from you guys, my favorite forum community on the internet. Thanks everyone!

-ben

[The Pezman]

That's pretty cool. But then the same thing could be said of just about rhythm game at all.

[atmuh]

I AM THE BEST DANCER IN THE WORLD I AAAD EVERY DDR SONG EVER

[Alexis]

As a music ed major/guitar hero addict, I have been coming up with ways to justify bringing guitar hero into the classroom when I actually have a job.

Basically I've come up with two things.

1. Rhythmic Accuracy

2. Dexterity in left hand (more so on hard and expert)

These are both good things, but I could only see this being used as an activity on like the day after a concert or something like that, and not something to do all the time. The left hand dexterity thing is only really good for string players too- which is what I want to do. And from personal experience, it actually has helped me personally with the my pinky. I know it sounds dumb, but the pinky is really weak, and playing a lot of guitar hero actually helped with the strength in my pinky.

Rock Band however...damn, that game is soooo good for percussionists. I want all of them to go home and have that game on hard or expert.

[Necrotic]

As a music ed major/guitar hero addict, I have been coming up with ways to justify bringing guitar hero into the classroom when I actually have a job.

Basically I've come up with two things.

1. Rhythmic Accuracy

2. Dexterity in left hand (more so on hard and expert)

These are both good things, but I could only see this being used as an activity on like the day after a concert or something like that, and not something to do all the time. The left hand dexterity thing is only really good for string players too- which is what I want to do. And from personal experience, it actually has helped me personally with the my pinky. I know it sounds dumb, but the pinky is really weak, and playing a lot of guitar hero actually helped with the strength in my pinky.

Rock Band however...damn, that game is soooo good for percussionists. I want all of them to go home and have that game on hard or expert.

Pretty much everything I was going to say on the subject. Other than those 3 things (finger strength, left hand dexterity, sense of rhythm) though, I don't think Guitar Hero does much else for musicianship really. But I will say this: coordination. Between playing coordination-testing video games like Guitar Hero, various fighting games, and DMC-style action games, (as well as more recently a real guitar), my fingers are more comfortable moving by doing what I want them to do instead of them fumbling as if they have their own mind all the time, and this is especially true when you're dealing with things like hand-eye coordination or sound cues which triggers you to coordinate your actions more concisely which I used to have major problems with.

In other words, to the original poster, I think your article has some merit based on the my skim over.

[Scufo]

I've heard some people say that playing Guitar Hero actually damages your ability to play real guitar, and that guitarists, when attempting to play, are almost always horrible. As a guitarist, this isn't hard to believe, since the fingering is much much different on a real guitar than on a plastic fisher price guitar controller.

But I play Guitar Hero too so I don't buy it.

[Moseph]

So ... does playing someone else's guitar solo over and over again, plus associating it with physical movements (even if those movements are in fact arbitrary) have any effect on soloing ability in real life? Does the close attention you pay to the solo give you ideas for your own actual improvisations?

I ask, because I think there's more to the Guitar Hero/musicianship connection than merely rhythm and dexterity. I think associating music with physical gesture of any kind may improve one's ability to listen closely to music, even when the person has not been specifically trained as a musician. The benefit, in other words, is less about improving any real skill on a particular instrument and more about connecting music listening to something physical.

Is there any sort of study out on the effects of physical movement with regard to musical memory? It seems like the kind of thing someone might research, but I'm not aware of any papers written on the matter.

[Scufo]

Eh, I think Guitar Hero just builds hand-eye coordination more than anything, which I suppose is helpful for reading sheet music and whatnot, and for just building dexterity in general.

Honestly I think the fact that you're playing to music is largely irrelevant. When you play guitar hero, you move according to what you see on the screen, not according to the sounds that you think should be produced as a result of your movements. The fact that you don't have to keep time or actually produce the sounds that you hear largely negates the benefits the game has to actually playing music, I think.

But I'm just guessing here.

[sgx]

The drums in Rock Band and the vocals in Rock Band + Karaoke Revolution probably actually help people with those respective instruments much more than Guitar/Bass in Guitar Hero and Rock Band.

When I was in a sight singing course in school a few years ago, playing Karaoke Revolution was a fun way for me to practice getting control of my voice. I wasn't really getting practice associating pitches with the do, re, me, etc notes I needed to know, but it really got me used to controlling my voice, making small adjustments, and generally getting to know how to work my vocal chords as someone who never really sang before - not even in the shower. I still did pretty poorly in the class, but better than I would have without it.

Playing drums in Rock Band really is an easy way to learn a lot of basic rock drum rhythms and it pounds it into you with a lot of repetition. You get very used to the base rhythm of hats on the eighth notes, snares on 2 and 4, and kicks on the 1 and elsewhere. Then you get to know all kinds of variations. It also gets your brain totally adjusted to using three limbs at once for musical input. I'm very used to using both my hands for music instruments and also music games, but never my foot in addition to that (Though I've used both feet in DDR!). Integrating the kick in there was mind-bending when I was just starting Rock Band, but now it feels natural.

I have this midi keyboard with finger drum pads for tapping beats on. I never really used it because I was no good at it. I wasn't good at thinking about more than two fingers for rhythm at once when I needed at least three (kick, snare, hats) But now I'm finding that with my multiple input skills and familiarization with basic beats, I can tap drums for my music better.

I'd probably have a head start if I ever wanted to get real and play some real drums too. However, I would imagine that most Rock Band only drummers have an underdeveloped internal metronome and will have trouble keeping a steady beat tempo. Bands often rely on the drums to keep them steady tempo-wise, and Rock Band drummers don't have much pressure in that area because the game keeps the tempo for them.

I think Rock Band is good singing and drumming practice and introduction for fun, but definitely will not prepare the player in all aspects for a direct jump to real performance. It is much more useful than the Guitars at least.

[Fishy]

The thought of playing a solo in real life is much easier then playing the same thing on guitar hero, so from my point of view, they don't relate. If they did I would be instantly amazing at guitar hero, which I'm not.

Games like DDR, GH and Frequency are all awesome for your rhythmic training however, as mentioned earlier.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I always will equate music/rhythm games' practicality to something like Sudoku. Sudoku is the number puzzle game that doesn't use math, but increases awareness of numbers and logic tremendously. I think the analogy with music games is there. It's not going to make you a better musician, but perhaps better prepared to deal with the rhythm and rhyme of music via coordination and timing. Playing Sudoku won't make you a Math whiz, but may prepare you to be one.

[sephfire]

As a drummer, I can say that Rock Band drums translate VERY easily to real drums. If you can play hard/expert Rock Band drums, you'll be missing a lot of fundamentals (holding sticks properly, posture, controlling hi-hat with left foot, etc.), but you could sit down at a drum and start banging out a beat in a few minutes.

Since moving to Savannah, I haven't had any drums to play. Rock Band drums have been a fantastic substitute.

[Devyn]

Mostly bullcrap. It probably helps with rhythm and timing, but the two shouldn't be compared. I might gain a little respect for cooking by playing cooking mama, but it ain't gonna make me a chef. Wii sports isn't going to make me into an expert bowler. In fact, I kick ass at Wii bowling but put me out on the lanes and I'll jump up and down just for rolling 140.

Edit: Excludes drums on Rock Band.

[Kanthos]

The left hand dexterity thing is only really good for string players too- which is what I want to do. And from personal experience, it actually has helped me personally with the my pinky. I know it sounds dumb, but the pinky is really weak, and playing a lot of guitar hero actually helped with the strength in my pinky.

I'd say the left-hand dexterity is useful for nearly any musician, except perhaps someone playing triangle or tympani I could certainly use a faster left hand for playing piano and even sax (although the movements aren't as big there). It's good for everyone, but best for strings.

I always will equate music/rhythm games' practicality to something like Sudoku. Sudoku is the number puzzle game that doesn't use math, but increases awareness of numbers and logic tremendously. I think the analogy with music games is there. It's not going to make you a better musician, but perhaps better prepared to deal with the rhythm and rhyme of music via coordination and timing. Playing Sudoku won't make you a Math whiz, but may prepare you to be one.

Um, Sudokus teach you logic, not math.

[Steben]

Um, Sudokus teach you logic, not math.

There's not much difference between the two. Especially when you get to doing proofs.

[DrumUltimA]

The other thing that I find very helpful with rhythm games is that they challenge your ability to sight read. Sight reading seems to be weak among the younger generation of musicians, and needs all the work it can get.

[benprunty]

I mostly wrote about sight reading and eye movement in the article, and a little bit about muscle coordination. yodaisbetter had some great insights. I didn't think about the pinky exercising; I have trouble with that finger with piano playing as well.

Also for some reason I didn't even consider Rock Band, though I'm excited to try the drumming, after what everyone said.

[Sinewav]

One thing that no one has really mentioned (except for Moseph, briefly) is an increased ability to listen to music critically. Now this could easily be argued either way, but I personally believe that Guitar Hero and Rock Band help with this.

Musicians often make comments on music like "That's a tasty bassline," or "I love that little vocal flair." You'll rarely hear non-musicians talk like this. That's because they don't listen to individual parts and (consciously or unconsciously) analyze music like we musicians do.

I think that playing Guitar Hero or Rock Band, while it's still no substitute for actual music skill, allows the regular old laypeople to start developing the beginnings of a musician's mindset toward music.

[CC Ricers]

I consider Rock Band to be more of a party game than a musical game. Guitar Hero series gives plenty of solo challenges, and I don't find that much with Rock Band. Rock Band is only worth buying if you can keep a steady schedule of friends dropping in to play with you.

I AM THE BEST DANCER IN THE WORLD I AAAD EVERY DDR SONG EVER

I'm glad you brought that up, because the pro DDR scene changed a lot after 5th Mix. It was that point where people got obsessive over perfection and AAAing everything, and freestyle dancers became a small sideshow. A machine cannot record your grace or style, but it was nice to watch someone freestyle doubles on Afronova in the (gasp) USA Mix game.

[I-n-j-i-n]

Um, Sudokus teach you logic, not math.

Thanks for ignoring every single thing I had to say about it.

[suzumebachi]

I play both drums and guitar.

I picked up Guitar Hero relatively easy, I suppose. I mean, I haven't played it a lot, but I was able to get the gist of it in maybe 10 seconds of fucking around. I'm pretty comfortable with the guitar, so it was more eye-hand coordination than anything.

Making the transition from actual drums to rock band drums on the other hand is a freaking nightmare. There is no logic whatsoever to how rock band decides it wants you to play percussion. They just throw random colors and lines at you and you hit random pads. It makes no sense, and the layouts often have nothing at all to do with actual drums. It's just purely arbitrary. I suppose Guitar Hero is kind of the same way, but at least higher pitched notes tend to go up the fretboard, which works in my brain logically, rather than banging on things in nonsensical patterns that have nothing whatsoever to do with the song playing in the background. A drummer could probably play Rock Band just as well with no music (or just a metronome), perhaps even easier because the actual song isn't distracting you from the arbitrary-ness.

And I digress.

Also,

Sudoku is the number puzzle game that doesn't use math, but increases awareness of numbers and logic tremendously.

Um, Sudokus teach you logic, not math.

TROLL HARDER

[sephfire]

Making the transition from actual drums to rock band drums on the other hand is a freaking nightmare. There is no logic whatsoever to how rock band decides it wants you to play percussion. They just throw random colors and lines at you and you hit random pads. It makes no sense, and the layouts often have nothing at all to do with actual drums. It's just purely arbitrary. I suppose Guitar Hero is kind of the same way, but at least higher pitched notes tend to go up the fretboard, which works in my brain logically, rather than banging on things in nonsensical patterns that have nothing whatsoever to do with the song playing in the background. A drummer could probably play Rock Band just as well with no music (or just a metronome), perhaps even easier because the actual song isn't distracting you from the arbitrary-ness.

I haven't had this problem. Is it that you feel the random colors and lines don't sync up with actual drum hits in the song or is it just that each pad has to play the roll of two or more parts of the drum kit?

[starla]

I play both drums and guitar.

I picked up Guitar Hero relatively easy, I suppose. I mean, I haven't played it a lot, but I was able to get the gist of it in maybe 10 seconds of fucking around. I'm pretty comfortable with the guitar, so it was more eye-hand coordination than anything.

Suzu picked up GH for the first time at magfest and 100%'ed his first song

[Penfold]

Making the transition from actual drums to rock band drums on the other hand is a freaking nightmare. There is no logic whatsoever to how rock band decides it wants you to play percussion. They just throw random colors and lines at you and you hit random pads. It makes no sense, and the layouts often have nothing at all to do with actual drums. It's just purely arbitrary. I suppose Guitar Hero is kind of the same way, but at least higher pitched notes tend to go up the fretboard, which works in my brain logically, rather than banging on things in nonsensical patterns that have nothing whatsoever to do with the song playing in the background. A drummer could probably play Rock Band just as well with no music (or just a metronome), perhaps even easier because the actual song isn't distracting you from the arbitrary-ness.

I agree. In real life, I play drums as well, and am pretty good, but I sucked when I tried out drumming in Rock Band. The seemingly random assignment of the pads is something I couldn't get used to in the few songs I tried out, not to mention just the general layout of their set. The biggest problem I had, though, is drumming in that game was just too rigid for me...I know it's a game and you need to follow their rules of how to play, but I just couldn't get into it. Playing the guitar was fun (first time I actually tried it out, since I never tried out Guitar Hero and whatnot before either), but didn't have fun playing drums in the game...I'll just stick to real drumming.

[zykO]

i can run circles around people on the guitar but suck morbidly at guitar hero.

i have a ton of fun playing guitar hero or garage band but it is a videogame and that is that.

the only correlation i could posibly see is that a game like GH or RB can greatly enhance your finger dexterity and your hand-eye reaction time, making you quicker as a musician but it does little to nothing for your creative ability as it is a limited activity (you hit, what, four buttons?)

but yeah, everything i just said has been said several times over in the thread and i have no idea why i posted