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OCR TF2: New Server forthcoming - new server IPs and other stuff

Bahamut

By Bahamut,
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Abyss Newbie

Abyss

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I suppose it doesn't help that I still don't seem to "get" the trick of jumping on the boxes in the center room... do you have to jump off the stairs onto them, or what?

Yeah, I was stumped by that for a while too. Either you have to be pixel perfect on the balcony, which I have never done but I have heard you can do, or you can jump from the stairs, which is much easier.

Apologies for double posting, by the way.

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Clefairy Newbie

Clefairy

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To anyone else that might be burned out on the popular maps we play so much of (I'm looking at you, Dustbowl), allow me to direct you here.

Research and Development in particular gets my recommendation, with MINERVA, Powerstation 17 and Joutomaa following closely behind.

--

So, we've been running through the same mapcycle for a good while now, and if the above doesn't make my position clear, I'm pretty tired of it. I love this game, I really do; probably too much, by some standards. But I'm also prepared to let it grow and change into something different, because you know what happens to things that don't? They get old and die. Look at all the games on your shelf you never play anymore if you want proof.

The updates do a lot to that end, but we're approaching the end of that cycle. And it seems rather unlikely to me that we'll see the same level of support and content from Valve once every class has an unlock set. It's possible, just unlikely.

I seem to have lost my train of thought, so I'll just open the floor to discussion. I've posted my ideas for a new mapcycle, what are yours.

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Garian Newbie

Garian

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alternatively, change the server to "OCReMix Goldrush/Dustbowl 24/7 | Alltalk" :V

I really don't have a problem with the "overplayed" maps. Some people (coughbleckcough) whine that "no one knows how to play these maps but they play them ALL THE TIME," but the truth is "no one knows how to play TF2 but they play it ALL THE TIME." Of course saying that is a kneejerk reaction to ending up with terrible team balance/management on either side. We end up with the same problems on ANY map, and perfectly balanced teams would be dumb because most matches would stalemate or go to SD, or end up in a Red win for Assault/PL.

I think people need to ditch the squeamishness of custom maps... a less popular server wouldn't be so bad IMO, because it seems the major point of contention that I have (as well as a few other folks) are the absolutely terrible public gamers. Now that doesn't mean I hate pubbies, but it is extremely frustrating when someone doesn't understand some of the core elements of class playstyle, like flanking as a pyro instead of running head-long into the fray. Aside from that, I play on the OCR server because I know the majority of guys who play there, either from IRC & MAGFest or from them playing there regularly, having the pubbies around to fill out the team numbers is just a bit of a bonus even though it can be maddening.

Err... I got sidetracked. WRT custom maps, people say "but they empty out the server!" but generally I find that the more regulars that stay to play on a custom, the more pubs will filter in (although this is not always the case). It's a bit of a cascade effect, if a map is actually good and fun, with a decent-sized handful of regulars, the map will quickly become popular with semi- and non-regular players. Frontier is a great example, I've seen a few 24/25 games on it with a good 50-60% regulars on board. BUT!! we've gotta be certain that people actually LIKE the customs that are selected, it seems lately that while pl_waste gets a decent population, people generally don't like the map because of a few minor issues that balloon quickly, such as the pacing effect of capping the 4th point extending the defensive respawn timer too much, while the cart speed is incredibly fast.

As an aside, I'm guilty of "not caring" about 2fort/turbine matches like a few people, but I'm contemplating considering people that go out of their way to be useless to be trolls. Generally talking about demo "pimp walkers" and spycrabs that detract from their team, people who are at least playing team deathmatch are being a bit of a credit. The whole "it's 2fort/turbine, we never take it seriously" schtick is getting old and when the maps are played as intended the games can be pretty intense. People whine about the turtley nature of CTF maps, but IMO that's just a part of the metagame that they're going to have to work around; sentry farms are never invincible and using some of the game's "features" (such as heavy cornering) can change the tide quite quickly, especially when coupled with spy sapping, invuln ubers, and winbombs.

That brings me to another issue, Alltalk/Deadtalk. Personally I enjoy the alltalk and friendly nature of the OCR server (even though I'm just a jerk that trolls people :(((((((((((((( and stopping is hard it is so tempting) but sometimes I'd like to get in some team-talk games. Then it occurred to me, Wish I Could Shoot has a server for [ZUZ] (and with rambo's financial contributions, [lions]) matches that is normally using a vanilla configuration. So why don't those of us who want to play some team-talk games just go play there once in a while? I'm not going to post the IP publicly out of respect, but if you're on my friend list you should join when I'm playing there, or just ask in the steam chat.

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Bleck Newbie

Bleck

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I agree with mostly everything garian just said

except

I don't think he pays attention to how bad people suddenly become whenever they play on Dustbowl

'guys all we need to do is take down that sentry'

'OKAY I GUESS I'LL SPEND THE NEXT TWENTY MINUTES RUNNING INTO IT REPEATEDLY EXCEPT FOR WHEN THERE IS AN UBER BECAUSE THEN I WILL EITHER BE RUNNING AROUND SPAWN TRYING TO KILL ONE BLOODY SPY OR I WILL JUST BE DEAD'

this applies to basically everybody who has ever played on the OCR server including all the good players and myself

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Clefairy Newbie

Clefairy

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some things

Pretty much every attack/defend map suffers from this problem to some degree. Dustbowl is just the worst example; I like to think it's the ridiculous number of bottlenecks.

Every single entrance into Red's territory on the map is either a tightly enclosed space, or a massively exploitable choke point. The area around Dustbowl 3-1 is the worst thing Valve has ever designed, in my opinion; there are good spots for at least 3 sentries, which already poses a significant challenge to an unco-ordinated team. Once 4 or more go up, unless blu is smart enough to get two ubered demos going, with escorts to negate red pyros' airblast, it's game fucking over.

It genuinely boggles my mind as to how someone who has played TF2 for any significant length of time can find Dustbowl fun. And of course it follows that they can't explain it, since about 85% of the internet utterly fails at critical thinking.

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Powerlord Newbie

Powerlord

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Pretty much every attack/defend map suffers from this problem to some degree. Dustbowl is just the worst example; I like to think it's the ridiculous number of bottlenecks.

Every single entrance into Red's territory on the map is either a tightly enclosed space, or a massively exploitable choke point. The area around Dustbowl 3-1 is the worst thing Valve has ever designed, in my opinion; there are good spots for at least 3 sentries, which already poses a significant challenge to an unco-ordinated team. Once 4 or more go up, unless blu is smart enough to get two ubered demos going, with escorts to negate red pyros' airblast, it's game fucking over.

It depends on what the other people on RED are doing. If they aren't constantly watching the guns, 1 or more BLU Spies can start sapping them, leaving them vulnerable to Heavies and Soldiers. This is far more likely if BLU is currently trying to push (with or without an uber), as the other teammates usually aren't watching the guns.

Depending on how the guns are set up, a Scout may use Bonk to get past the sentries to the point (I've personally done this).

Spies and Scouts together can actually be a pretty good scoring team.

Edit: To beat someone to the punch, as a Spy, you sneak through when your team isn't currently pushing, because the enemy probably isn't going to be firing into blank space.

Also, there's only one spot where a gun can be placed on 3-1 where a Spy can't reach it.

Edit 2: No, my beef with Dustbowl is that we play it All. The. Time.

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Sensai Newbie

Sensai

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I definitely don't care about capturing the flag on 2fort/turbine matches. 2fort simply because I think it's a bad map and I pretty much just do stupid things [Edit:] (not spycrab the entire time, but try out new things, such as playing my god awful sniper) the entire round and turbine because I think playing defense is too much fun.

Pub players can be aggravating, but I can't really complain, since I only joined like a month or two before I started playing there. What really does bother me, though, is asshole pub players. Earlier today there were two guys on the server who just bitched and moaned about Red rolling Blu. I said that the teams weren't imbalanced and that we (Blu) just needed a medic. We got one...and then they bitched about Blu rolling Red. Ele and one of them started arguing and it escalated to the point of annoyance.

I'm fine with pub players, good or bad, until they start being assholes. I'd take a bad pubbie who isn't a dick over an all star player who is.

I honestly believe that Dustbowl would be a pretty decent map if Engineers were not allowed.

(Not actually suggesting that, simply saying that sentry farms, while not completely invincible, are pretty damn aggravating, ESPECIALLY on Dustbowl.)

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Powerlord Newbie

Powerlord

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(Not actually suggesting that, simply saying that sentry farms, while not completely invincible, are pretty damn aggravating, ESPECIALLY on Dustbowl.)

I remember being part of a 2 Spy/demoman uber set that took down 4 sentries on Dustbowl 2-2 before. So no, it's not impossible.

To my knowledge, this wasn't coordinated as much as it was being in the right place at the right time.

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Clefairy Newbie

Clefairy

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Due to prior commitments I had completely forgotten about, I will be unable to make the scrim tomorrow. I've put Sensai in charge of getting everyone together for game time.

Have fun out there. :P If someone could record a demo while they're at it, that'd be gravy.

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Sensai Newbie

Sensai

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Just a friendly reminder for anyone interested in scrimming: we're doing it tomorrow night at 9 PM Eastern. I don't think I'm Steam friends with everyone who's interested, but I'm sure that everyone's friends with at least one person who's scrimming, so you should be able to get the IP from somebody.

We'll be scrimming on the ZUZ server. I'll try to make sure everything's set up at around 8.30 or so. See you all there, hopefully.

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