]Syntax Error[ Gets Shut Down By Nintendo C&D

[The Xyco]

man, if this isn't the biggest bandwagon circlejerk public sacrifice of a forum member I've seen all month

I am sigging this.

[DjSammyG]

I am sigging this.

d'awwwww <3

[Toadofsky]

Okay, so guys who HACKED the game, with characters that were COPYRIGHTED (that includes their assets of the character models), was INFRINGED. Nintendo did what they thought they had to.

And please, firmware updates come on almost every Nintendo Wii game released, and each one makes it harder and harder for the homebrew/hacker/emulator community to break, so don't think they aren't watching the modding.

As far as this site? Come on, Do you ever see where the remixers have to give due credit to the composers of the songs on this site? And what stage/scene? There hasn't been much of a case of when the original composer has requested OC take of a song, it's happened on the rarest of occasions.

OC doesn't get financial gain from this site, minus t-shirts. If they started to charge for songs, then you would see a hammer crack down.

And even if OC shut down, there's dozens, if not hundreds of remix sites out there of the same nature.

man, if this isn't ths biggest bandwagon circlejerk public sacrifice of a forum member I've seen all month

You should read the Soulja Boy thread... eyes roll...

[The Coop]

man, if this isn't ths biggest bandwagon circlejerk public sacrifice of a forum member I've seen all month

Public sacrifice? No. Heated at times sure, but not a sacrifice. That term is reserved for what happened to Dewey 32167 fairly regularly

[Dyne]

He still isn't getting the message, but that's aside from the point. What we know, is what we know, and any one of us can research it via the appropriate channels. Unfortunately, there's no talking to someone who isn't willing to accept the fact that ripping open a console with the sole purpose of modifying its normal operating functions so that you can play pirated games, is a HUGE issue with Nintendo. And their intellectual property, which includes, but is not limited to, the game console, and software contained on game discs, is not to be tampered with whatsoever.

But hey, I guess I'm just grasping at straws at this point, hoping he'll get it, and that we can end this thread as friends and be happy and whatever. I don't know. Sorry, but the opinion I have of the topic is that it's moot as far as Nintendo goes, as it's their hard work and efforts that are being ripped off. But I guess that's just me, sorry I care about how other people feel (other people being software and hardware designers).

[Overflow]

And their intellectual property, which includes, but is not limited to, the game console, and software contained on game discs, is not to be tampered with whatsoever.

Um, I'm a little confused. Just to clarify, does this mean that:

1) when you buy a game, you own the disk, but do not own the software? Instead you are... Oh, crap, I can't remember the term... Nintendo uses this term whenever they talk about VC games...

2) any fanmade game that uses any original work (artwork, music, etc) is illegal, whether or not they make any profit? Also, then what about games that use derivative work(i.e. redrawn sprites, etc.)?

3) while companies may release packets for fan sites (I hear), aren't they technically illegal because their using property that isn't theirs, even if they acknowledge this?

[L.T.W.]

Anyway reverse engineering is illegal.

Is that why they haven't shut down Von Ritcher's SR388 and DrMario64's AM2R? Because they created their own source code?

[H. Guderian]

Oh won't anyone think about Warranty?

IP issues aside, crackin' a Wii open violates your warranty whch is a direct financial loss, and when 12 yr-old Jimmy breaks his Wii trying to get cool new characters he found in a tutorial online, Mr. Jimmy's Mom is gonna be furious to find out the warranty was voided in a hacking/modding attempt.

These cases may have already happened, it possibly could be the reason why this resulted in a C&D, if not this reason alone justifies a C&D.

[DarkeSword]

Is that why they haven't shut down Von Ritcher's SR388 and DrMario64's AM2R? Because they created their own source code?

They pick and choose what they want to shut down; perhaps they don't see either game as a dilution of trademark or a threat to sales of a future product.

[Less Ashamed Of Self]

I'm not going to read all 9 pages of this thread let alone written copyright law... but I will put forward a very generic/vague agreement that it's always sort of tragic the way that corporations seem to have the worst aim and timing with their C&D's.

[JackKieser]

He still isn't getting the message, but that's aside from the point. What we know, is what we know, and any one of us can research it via the appropriate channels. Unfortunately, there's no talking to someone who isn't willing to accept the fact that ripping open a console with the sole purpose of modifying its normal operating functions so that you can play pirated games, is a HUGE issue with Nintendo. And their intellectual property, which includes, but is not limited to, the game console, and software contained on game discs, is not to be tampered with whatsoever.

But hey, I guess I'm just grasping at straws at this point, hoping he'll get it, and that we can end this thread as friends and be happy and whatever. I don't know. Sorry, but the opinion I have of the topic is that it's moot as far as Nintendo goes, as it's their hard work and efforts that are being ripped off. But I guess that's just me, sorry I care about how other people feel (other people being software and hardware designers).

I just wanted to respond to this before I go to sleep. Again, I don't think you've quite been getting my side of the message here. I understand that, for instance, modding and homebrew is breaking the law. I understand that Nintendo takes a firm stance against it. I understand that. I really do get that it's against the law.

I don't think that it should be.

I disagree with a basic tenant of these laws, namely that you don't have the right to mod something for personal use that you yourself legally acquired. I think that is blatant exploitation of the consumer. Me modding my system is my own business. If I have the parts and the know-how to mod my Wii to play DVD's, then I should have the right to do so; saves me money. If everyone has the same capabilities, that's the invisible hand of the market moving Nintendo to make a Wii that plays DVD's for cheaper than it takes me to mod the current gen hardware. If not, they lose money. Their loss for not following the consumer. Not everyone is going to agree with me. That's fine; this is a socially progressive way of thinking. But I (and people who do agree) have beef with the current system, and would like it to be changed. I'm sorry if you see that as being stubborn, but we could easily peg you as stubbornly sticking to convention, so it goes both ways.

Demeaning each other, either way, gets us nowhere, so try not to do that. 'Night guys.

[BlackPanther]

Ok well I know this Jack guy from Smashboards and he pretty much never wins, same goes for here as well so I'm just gonna get to what I want to say. Isn't OCR kinda protected anyways by some parody act or whatever, kinda like what Weird Al does?

[JackKieser]

Ok well I know this Jack guy from Smashboards and he pretty much never wins, same goes for here as well so I'm just gonna get to what I want to say. Isn't OCR kinda protected anyways by some parody act or whatever, kinda like what Weird Al does?

Yes, because it's about winning? Not really. Oh, and parody only is applicable when some form of satire is in use, which isn't the case here.

[KyleJCrb]

Yes, because it's about winning? Not really. Oh, and parody only is applicable when some form of satire is in use, which isn't the case here.

Wanna bet?

[JackKieser]

That's one song. That one song is not indicative of the site as a whole. That song is protected; every other one without some sort of satire, however, is still in the gray area.

[Red9]

It is scary when you think about it. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling but great emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think, 'If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently.'

I love you. Awesome remix btw.

On a relevant note: So i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say we can't change your mind because you are a little bit butthurt about a mod for wii not coming out because of big bad Nintendo and the laws that back it up? Also wanting a place to complain hoping to get some sympathy for something explicitly illegal?

I agree with your view on allowing mods and modding but not on how you're going about it. I recommend going the political route rather than the fansite route. We really don't have the direct power to change the copyright laws at a wim. Go talk to Uncle Sam about that.

[sephfire]

I think most of us understand that you aren't trying to rally us to ]EE['s defense (at least, not at this point in the thread). You are just frustrated with the way copyright law works and that it would lead to the death of a fan project with potential. We can all sympathize there. We've all felt those pangs of disappointment, be it over this or Chrono Resurrection or the DOA texture modding that Team Ninja stopped a few years ago. In an ideal world, fans with pure intentions would be free to contribute their creativity and the real pirates would be stopped.

But I think most of us also know that this is just the way copyright law is. Nintendo has every right to protect their IP. Copyright law may have it's flaws, but there's not a whole lot to be done about it here, and the fate of ]EE['s project doesn't come as a great surprise.

In summary: "Yeah, it sucks, but them's the breaks."

[JackKieser]

Sephfire hit it the closest as far as I'm concerned (thanks for the level headedness ). The only difference is that he says "them's the breaks", where as I say "them's the breaks now, but we should be able to make thems not the breaks." Obviously you guys are content with law as it is now. That's perfectly fine, and I'm not going to demean anyone in this thread for that. I'm (and most proponents of a more "open source" way of thinking, for lack of a better term) just not content, and so I wanted to open up a dialog. Let it be known that I don't defend breaking copyright by making textures of copyrighted characters (Megaman, Ridley, etc.), but the fact that modding is still a restricted act just upsets me to no end. The fact that you can own something without actually 'owning' it is totally wrong, as far as I'm concerned, and should be changed.

[Fenrir]

You can "disagree" with Nintendo's rights to shut down the Smash Bros hack all you want, but that doesn't change a thing. Everyone in this thread has provided hard evidence as to precisely why it was within Nintendo's rights to do what they did, and all you've come up with in reply are trivial technicalities and I-don't-agree-with's.

[JackKieser]

Ok... See this is what gets me. Let's say I want something changed. One person rarely has the power to change something like law, so the logical course of action would be to inform others and hope that they'll want to have things changed, too. But, according to your implication, I'm dumb for coming here and talking about this because none of you agree with me. Well, I wasn't aware that reality was based on how many people agree. Remember that in 1870, most people agreed that black people shouldn't have the right to vote; I guess the majority was right there, too? Just because a majority agrees, that doesn't make it the best way to do things. But no, because you don't agree with me, I must be misguided trying to talk about this. It's law, I have to deal with it, and it's worthless me trying to inform people and create discourse on a topic I think should be changed. Sorry, I'll try not to be so foolish next time?

Really. Come on.

[Fenrir]

Ok... See this is what gets me. Let's say I want something changed. One person rarely has the power to change something like law, so the logical course of action would be to inform others and hope that they'll want to have things changed, too. But, according to your implication, I'm dumb for coming here and talking about this because none of you agree with me. Well, I wasn't aware that reality was based on how many people agree. Remember that in 1870, most people agreed that black people shouldn't have the right to vote; I guess the majority was right there, too? Just because a majority agrees, that doesn't make it the best way to do things. But no, because you don't agree with me, I must be misguided trying to talk about this. It's law, I have to deal with it, and it's worthless me trying to inform people and create discourse on a topic I think should be changed. Sorry, I'll try not to be so foolish next time?

Really. Come on.

The only reason you want this changed is because you want to play modded smash bros. Darkesword had it right; there's nothing noble here.

[JackKieser]

The only reason you want this changed is because you want to play modded smash bros. Darkesword had it right; there's nothing noble here.

Well, I'm so glad you know my intentions SO WELL. I want law changed because I don't think it's right that I can own something without "owning it". Plain and simple. ]EE['s problems were the catalyst that made me take a look at this facet of law and made me realize how unjust it is. How many times must I repeat something before you thickies get it? (Note: "thickies" in this case refers to people like Fenrir who think they have the psychic abilities necessary to intrinsically "know" 100% what I'm thinking over the internet.)

[Fenrir]

Well, I'm so glad you know my intentions SO WELL. I want law changed because I don't think it's right that I can own something without "owning it". Plain and simple. ]EE['s problems were the catalyst that made me take a look at this facet of law and made me realize how unjust it is. How many times must I repeat something before you thickies get it? (Note: "thickies" in this case refers to people like Fenrir who think they have the psychic abilities necessary to intrinsically "know" 100% what I'm thinking over the internet.)

I don't need to be psychic to know your intentions when you're as bad at camouflaging them as you are.

Seriously. All I did was read your posts. You aren't subtle.

[JackKieser]

I don't need to be psychic to know your intentions when you're as bad at camouflaging them as you are.

Seriously. All I did was read your posts. You aren't subtle.

Bullsh*t. I'm calling it now. I could say that you are only disagreeing with me because you're a troll and you want to incite a flame war. You know why I don't? Because not only is it a baseless claim, but I can't read your mind over the internet, therefore I can only assume that the words you type are the truth ([sarcasm] tags notwithstanding). So, tell me, what am I thinking, oh knowledgeable one? Go ahead: read my mind. Prove that my constant assertions of "I don't agree with this law because I think it is exploitation", which you can find me saying in this thread (go ahead, actually read it) are lies masking my true intentions of not being able to live without a Charizard skinned to look like Ridley and my wishes to go all Emo and start cutting if big bad Nintendo doesn't give me my way. Do it. Prove it.

Short answer: you can't and you're being insufferable. At least Sephfire and those like him aren't insufferable when they disagree (again, thanks to level-headed people like you).

[JJT]

I could say that you are only disagreeing with me because you're a troll and you want to incite a flame war.

If you suspect he's a troll, then firing back a long, wordy response is probably not the best idea.

i.e. it may be time to pack it in. I think you've made your point.